00:00.00 ALEX And we are back with archaeo animals. We're talking about the zoeology of myths and legends specifically about the greek mythology and we are going to tackle some human creature hybrids because you know how do they work. I don't know no one knows apparently ah Virgil knows and he just he mocks us telling us. Oh he's got 3 backs or whatever. Okay, Virgil. Whatever whatever you say. 00:21.70 S_ Granarius Except for Virgil he knows. 00:36.50 ALEX Anyway, we'll we'll tackle yet another pretty famous hybrid creature. Ah the minotare head and tail of a bowl but the body of a man. Also a creature in elders girls for oblivion there see I did a video game reference to. 00:50.80 S_ Granarius Ha Ha Ha Ha ha. 00:55.16 ALEX Whatever New New Year say me, you'll just have to deal with it. 01:01.90 S_ Granarius Ah, however, in certain medieval depictions based on ovids text. The minator is shown like a centa in that he had the head of a human on a bull's body that's terrifying. Yeah that just to. 01:15.72 ALEX Boo boring. 01:20.50 S_ Granarius Terrifying imagining you're walking like oh know you're trying to go how about night and then just ah, a bow with a human face stares back? Oh no, um. 01:27.93 ALEX Yeah, but then again like thinking about the the classical minotaur like wouldn't it be top heavy. You got that big that big old bullhead on ah on a weak human vertebra. 01:41.10 S_ Granarius Ah, but they didn't say it wasn't it a human's head on a bull's body. 01:45.81 ALEX Oh yeah, that one but I just like talking about an actual not an actual. There is no mentor. Ah for like what we all kind of assume oh true. Yeah well I'm not telling us about them but like that's the thing though is like obviously you know. 01:52.71 S_ Granarius Or is it archery farms the summer 02:04.60 ALEX I mean our heads are heavy but like ah a bull's head especially a giant bull's head is also is extremely heavy like a skull and you know you're you'd have it sitting on top because the mentorur walks on two legs you know he's upright he's bi petal. So I don't know you'd have to have a very strong. 02:26.80 S_ Granarius Just 1 big chunky Atlas after like after big chunky toes hit comes big chunky. Atlas it's like a butterfly. 02:29.44 ALEX Yes, 1 big. 02:36.70 ALEX I always like the Atlas I don't know it is like a butterfly I'm always very pleased when I find one I'm just like look at that. That's an atlas with. 02:45.53 S_ Granarius Ah, f way I do. The Atlas is the first or vertebra that connects your your skull to the rest of the spine. 02:51.95 ALEX Yeah, it's like the the one vertebra that I can like actually name and then the rest are just called ah vertebra. 02:59.46 S_ Granarius Fun because you have the Atlas the axis and go you hurt you your cervical thoracic and lumbar. 03:05.54 ALEX Yeah, but there's some ah zooareologists and bio archeologists out there who can like especially bio archeologists who like everyone who works with humans. They can like tell you what number verterate it is and I'm like that's a level I will never never get to. 03:21.10 S_ Granarius Ah I mean I guess you could with animals but then like because we tend to work with so many different species. Ah, just yeah enough. 03:28.41 ALEX Yeah I think you can like I would probably ballpark it because obviously especially with some animals the vertebra get smaller as you go down the tail. Yeah yeah. 03:40.53 S_ Granarius Ah, yeah, and the cold albertebra is just just thinking humans and I forgot about the tail ones. Yeah. 03:47.24 ALEX But like especially humans I mean a lot of times me trying to do human bone labs and just completely falling apart when it came to the ribs and the vertebra. Well you know? yes they were you just throw them away. 03:56.76 S_ Granarius Just because her to brain ribs were there to anger bone people this please don't throw them away. 04:04.63 ALEX You don't need them. No you throw them away what you talk about someonea. That's my my hard stance on vertebra and ribs. 04:13.62 S_ Granarius Go and Alex Fitzpatrick like revolutionizes this guard policies. Oh so yes, sorry. 04:18.22 ALEX Dr. Alex with Patrick those cowards gave me a ph d and now I can say these things with full actual professional knowledge throw away. Ah anyway menist. 04:30.86 S_ Granarius Okay, but back to a professional discussion on how can a human balance A bull's head. 04:37.36 ALEX Well yeah I Guess realistically speaking though your your whole body would be structured differently I Guess we're not really talking about a weird kind of mad scientist type thing where they're they're just taking ah a you know a human body and just plopping a. Ah, bullhead on it like menotorurs are usually depicted as like big beefy dudes. So Big Beefy Bowls. Oh dear. 05:05.33 S_ Granarius That up another on on on. No and I mis hurt that so har harpiess. So our girl old friend Overvid there's a lot of ovid to-day. 05:13.29 ALEX Ah, Hu anyway. So let's move on to the next one harpies harpies harphies 05:23.61 S_ Granarius Ah, not as in the the sheep type thing over over the the scholar um call them the human vultures. Um, and they're traditionally depicted as having the faces of human women on bird bodies Now again, you must have hit heard of these like. 05:37.11 ALEX Yeah. 05:41.44 S_ Granarius Countless times and all sorts of Mediums including video games. 05:44.47 ALEX Yeah, and interestingly Greek writers tend to describe them as very beautiful while Roman and byzantine byzantine writers emphasize their ugliness which I would love to understand kind of the cultural shift in that because I actually never really because I knew that. Their depictions varied I didn't realize that it tends to have been greek writers who wrote them It's very beautiful and then it shifted as roman writers. 06:11.63 S_ Granarius Well because clearly there are there has been a shift not just the appearance but I guess just the conception of it because har and is not so much maybe not in English I'm not sure but um, calling someone a harpy is not very nice where I'm from So it's usually like someone who's. 06:26.63 ALEX Oh no, yeah. 06:31.17 S_ Granarius Usually a woman that is just nasty or not very pleasant. 06:34.36 ALEX Which I guess is picked up more from that romanization. The byzantine writers writing about harpies. But yeah, it's it's interesting that they used to be just extremely beautiful women who were also birds. And ah, apparently it also varies on how bird-like they are in depiction. Ah some depictions literally just look like a normal bird with a lady's head which ah Google image searched that they're extremely funny and others actually. Turn from human to bird with ah breasts obviously because men were drawing them for the most part. 07:16.45 S_ Granarius To me the the depiction of like the bird with the lady's head like it's so medieval illuminated Manuscript I'm picturing them in that style specifically. 07:23.65 ALEX Yeah, definitely. It's incredible I Love it so Much. Ah, but yeah, no it. It is interesting and again it's something we kind of talked about the star of this episode the shifting of mythological creatures and. Umological figures over time and this goes into the creatures as well in terms of the way they're described and I'm sure as someone's done research and I apologize that I I didn't pick it up on it on you know why? that is why some writers tend to. Bring out the humanity of some of these creatures while others emphasize the more bestial part and some of them just want a lady ah lady head on a bird. 08:16.83 S_ Granarius It's a Tuesday afternoon on Tuesdays are just the rest of me turns into a bird except for my face that says. 08:18.11 ALEX The. 08:24.10 ALEX Ah, big mood I Mean should we go to the next one or so anything else you want to say about harbes. 08:29.76 S_ Granarius Nips. 08:34.27 S_ Granarius Just the sat is set. It sat eyes setters. The. 08:40.77 ALEX Saturdays set set set set sadter you said that like you know when you go on Youtube and you look over pronunciation. Thank you. 08:45.20 archpodnet Satir. 08:51.41 archpodnet I satir fitzpatrickforlonga 08:54.90 S_ Granarius Um, but lesson lesson number 1 listen and repeat. 08:57.10 ALEX Thank you. Wow If you know if the podcasting producer thing doesn't work out for you. You've got a job right? there probably. 09:09.67 archpodnet Hephaustus artemus Diana there you go chunky toes. 09:15.60 S_ Granarius Go. Ah. 09:17.67 ALEX Chunky toes. 09:23.80 archpodnet Oh God as Straggerus sorry. 09:24.30 S_ Granarius Oh Aunt satys were originally depicted a few months more honour. 09:33.39 archpodnet So I'm sorry continue I. 09:33.56 ALEX Okay. 09:42.60 ALEX Anyway. 09:42.81 S_ Granarius You tell us that you tell us about Greek Mythological creatures then. 09:48.10 archpodnet I'm a detriment to this podcast I recognize that and I am truly sorry I interrupted you Simona that was rude I apologize please please. 09:55.16 ALEX All all of our podcast episodes are made in spite of Tristan not because of him. 10:04.30 archpodnet Ah, ah, ah, dear, right? come on. Let's let's get back on track says the person who took us off track. 10:13.37 S_ Granarius Ah, images himself. Oh snap. Um, so yeah, the sat is um were originally depicted as humanoids with horse legs and tail. While later the fictionctions would show them as um, much more human with appropriate legs. So So again, so we see that shift appropriate legs soft. 10:32.86 ALEX Ah, yeah, ah you know human appropriate likes again I wrote these show notes. So don't know what I was thinking at the time. So yes, human appropriate things. 10:45.40 S_ Granarius Yeah, yeah, you're giving the satire such unrealistic standards of beauty. 10:53.65 ALEX I'm so sorry apologies to saturs out there. Ah so yeah, they they would get more humannoyed. Ah but also at the same time kind of more goatlike as time progressed they seem to have been just conflated with Pan. And sometimes we're given the legs and horns of a goat see.. That's what I mean by appropriate legs. They had goat legs not human appropriate legs to sing. 11:22.86 S_ Granarius Yeah, so I guess the questions here is um, how did they stand upright with Horse Slash goat legs and um, how did they stand upright with the amount of wine they drink. 11:38.21 ALEX These are very important questions. Yes, the latter I mean I don't think they really stood upright most of the time to be honest, but like yeah I mean obviously you can. 11:41.44 S_ Granarius Especially the latter. 11:57.88 ALEX Go upright on the the legs of like a horse or goat a quadrupad type of legs. But. 12:04.99 S_ Granarius Just purely not the most stable because it's the equivalent of being on your tiptoes. 12:10.64 ALEX Yeah, and like I guess in some way we kind of know the answer to this because you know they made that line like which in the wardrobe movie. What Mr Tumness and they had to give him goatlegs. 12:24.44 S_ Granarius Oh I've not read or seen that. 12:27.87 ALEX Oh it's James Mcavoy and he has like goat legs and like I believe they have like a special rig so that they do that kind of like you know they're not necessarily bent backwards but you know how goat legs like hind legs kind of have that. Look about them if that makes sense. 12:45.81 S_ Granarius Yeah, because they almost look like they bent backwards. Of course this this due to the morphology of the animal where essentially you know they they stand on the tiptoes. So what will you see as bending backwards is actually the I guess the wrist joint if you will or the ankle joint. 12:53.45 ALEX Yeah. 13:00.64 ALEX Yeah, so for those kind of looks they they build like a little rig that makes that look but realistically speaking. It is very different to how say a human or yeah other bipedal creatures would stand. Um. And I know there's also I've seen loads of because obviously Greek mythology as we said very popular in pop culture. Ah people I've seen cost make costumes of these creatures and I've also seen kind of the way they've built those legs so I guess technically it is possible. It takes some. Engineering some very specific type of engineering. Ah no I mean from what I understand it's a lot of either. You have to build in no supports like externally ah or like almost like stilt type of things or you're just you know. 13:41.44 S_ Granarius Um, it just doesn't seem very stable. 13:59.40 ALEX Very talented. 13:59.63 S_ Granarius And I guess ah the the satis must have been very talented indeed because they're standing in a position. That's not the most stable to begin with and are also very drunk. A lot of the time just that recipe just for. 14:13.40 ALEX It's very impressive. 14:17.14 S_ Granarius But disaster. Oh no I mean. 14:20.10 ALEX Yeah, speaking of kind of horse legs. We can hit our very last ah human creature hybrid that we wanted to talk about and those are centaurs half man on top half horse on the bottom doesn't get much simpler than that one of the theories behind the origin. The centaurs is that. It comes from the perspective of peoples without a riding culture witnessing horse riders for the first time which I think is extremely cool. 14:46.90 S_ Granarius Well guess them like dising because in in in truth they were jealous because they didn't have such a good relationship with their horses or you know, um, you'll be like oh those people there their own their horses all the time is like the glue to them's like the 1 thing. 14:55.25 ALEX Exactly. 15:01.74 ALEX And then someone else was like what's glue. 15:05.25 S_ Granarius No idea. 15:08.36 ALEX And and then the and they killed that man because he was speaking nonsense. More importantly, though we talked about Anatomy we've talked about kind of cultural Shifts. We've talked about a lot of very important big themes in archeology. But now we are going to hit the most important theme we've ever covered in this entire podcast and that is how would a Santara wear trousers book of a bur. 15:36.40 S_ Granarius Um, sister. Where would you say. 15:42.78 ALEX Smona thoughts um depends on the trousers I feel like would you stretch them out feel like du Greys would work better. 15:50.52 S_ Granarius But if kept what if you had what if he had little dungaries as well like a second. 16:00.40 ALEX And just like have them on the bottom half and then like have the the straps over I mean it be still be very long Hm I mean I guess it would depend on what the purpose of the trap like. 16:09.74 S_ Granarius There be wouldn't strange your fitting dunkeree. 16:19.80 ALEX Centars are normally just not wearing anything so it's not necessarily a decency thing. 16:28.89 ALEX So. 16:29.16 S_ Granarius So I guess what would you wear them for it like to shield yourself from the cold so you'd you'd won them all the way I guess to where the man begins sir to the bust. 16:39.48 ALEX You just wear like a big jumpsuit basically. Like right I don't know I mean yeah because even if so if you even if you wore them on just the front Legs. You would just There would be you need the back open? Yeah, okay. 17:03.48 archpodnet Okay, where would the zipper go you know with the zipper go like in the front on the front Noah the zipper has to go underneath because anatomically I'm assuming underneath as a horse right? So but I think a zipper would get in the way. So. 17:16.19 ALEX Yeah. 17:20.73 S_ Granarius Yeah, it has buttons Actually yes. 17:22.85 archpodnet Like I think this might be possibly the reason why many centaurs in media are not shown with trousers on I think most of them are naked if I remember correctly. 17:36.24 ALEX I Think once we figure out the answer to this we will all reach a certain level of enlightenment that will solve a lot of other problems. That's my hot take. 17:46.53 archpodnet I think I think we will have hopefully solved other things before that point so that we can free up them thinking time for this very important situation. 18:00.55 ALEX Anyway, if you have thoughts about the great centaur debate. Let us know because it's the end of the episode. So now we have to start talking about places you can find us unless oh yeah. 18:12.92 S_ Granarius But but just just one thing I'd add though because we've had fan art before please don't just tell us our centa should wear trousers but also show us our sental who. 18:21.79 ALEX Show us where does that zipper go folks hashtag I don't know I will ah so confident that I ah Hashtag so show us the zipper. 18:31.70 archpodnet I I tried show us the zipper. 18:34.58 S_ Granarius Kiss that. 18:38.73 archpodnet I no please please please I don't want that Hashtag just just shore us the trousers. Oh no, it's it's this is not good. No I think we've backed ourselves in a corner here. So hashtag sent our fashion sent our fashion. 18:39.86 ALEX Let us know where the zipper. 18:40.97 S_ Granarius Thousand in an nanos. No. 18:50.93 S_ Granarius We we? um. 18:51.78 ALEX Um, you can send Zipper picks to my direct messages. 18:56.50 S_ Granarius That be that that that the style of the centry. 19:03.98 ALEX Oh dear huh. 19:06.53 archpodnet Right Abandoned ship abandoned ship. It's over. We can't recover from this so where can people find us. 19:17.24 ALEX You find us on Twitter at archae animals. You can find us on the internet at ah http://archaeologypodcastnetworks.com/animals. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts and obviously you you did find us cause you're listening to us. So in that case, tell your friends about us like and subscribe leave us a review and yeah, where would the zipper go hashtag show us a zipper leave people are cowards I'm not so let me know. 19:51.51 S_ Granarius It doesn't have a zipper. It's got buttons. 19:56.17 archpodnet What that's I don't even I think that's even worse that takes ages. Zippers are superior to buttons. Okay. 20:03.92 S_ Granarius Um, with the what if they get stuck in a very uncomfortable position. 20:10.80 archpodnet What if the buttons get stuck. Oh you Also not. 20:11.30 ALEX Jokes jokes on you I'm team elastics team elastics all the way baby. 20:16.43 S_ Granarius Okay, so should a cent or where should a center or where tracks with bottoms is said. 20:22.21 archpodnet Oh like a centaur in trackes. Yeah no I can see that um god I wish my like Greek knowledge and like mythology knowledge is better that can I make some sort of a ddes joke you know. 20:23.60 ALEX Who. 20:28.21 S_ Granarius Um, yeah, just just just you know loving to lounge. 20:40.99 archpodnet I did actually had there was a there's um, there was actually a joke. Um, it's one of my favorite ones a man comes into a greek tailor and he shows him his genes and I mean they're they're definitely broken. They definitely need repaired and. The the the Greek um Taylor says to the man euripides and he says yeah eumenide. ah ah I love it it's so good. 21:07.16 S_ Granarius No, no, no, no, no, no. 21:13.80 ALEX Thank you all for listening to our last episode of Archeo animals and that's a wrap we'll see you next time or not apologies to everyone. We're sorry. 21:20.26 S_ Granarius Yes, and and ah apologies to all the people from Greece listening to the show.