00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to episode one seventy eight of the archeote podcast and we are talking to wow I just got a text it totally derailed me. Ah, um, it's the Jarrett the jet proposals Adam and Sonja are. 00:07.22 Paul Um, somebody. Ah, oh. 00:17.71 archpodnet Back and forth and and we can talk about that later. But yeah anyway, um, let me start over. Ah all right? Welcome back to the arche architect podcast episode one seventy eight and we're talking with Paul about the logosh archeological project and. I was just wondering Paul do you got anything else. You want to mention about the ah surface survey before we move on. 00:36.57 Paul Yeah, So um, one of the other things I was mentioning about the positives negatives and and write-offs those are the target locations but we also realized that um that there are going to be other things that you encounter that aren't at the the Target locations. It might be an artifact that you want to know it might be. Some destruction to the site. It could be any of a number of different things architectural features that are visible on the surface that sort of stuff so I created another database layer also in that same collection for notes and those were very free form. You write a little description pull something you know. 01:01.17 archpodnet Okay. 01:13.65 Paul Grab something from a pulldown take a photograph if you want and with that we had over so or just about 700 notes um ancillary to the main part of the surface survey ah because it became so effortless for us to do that. So if we'd see a drain. 01:23.15 archpodnet Choose Um, yeah. 01:32.80 Paul Or we would see part of a wall or something but no point not to just note it here. Here's a Gps coordinates here's a photograph of it keep on moving it barely slowed down the main part of the survey and realized this is not systematic but when you have you know that 700 notes 01:44.50 archpodnet Who. 01:49.44 Paul Spread out over about half the site about 60% of the site. It's if you look just at that layer. The whole map is blue with all these note markers so that was kind of cool and then there are a couple other things you know I developed it so that it didn't take much expertise. 01:58.68 archpodnet Ah, yeah. 02:07.34 Paul To be able to do the surface survey the collection part. Um and the idea was that I wanted it to be as reproducible as possible not to be as as dumb as possible I wanted. Um I wanted to be able to have hideer's results and my results be virtually identical. 02:24.80 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:25.76 Paul And if we were to bring you out in the field Chris your results would be virtually identical because there wouldn't be a whole lot of thinking there wouldn't be a whole lot of picking up objects and looking at them and say oh is this piece of slag big enough for me to bring in oh is this pot sure diagnostic or not now. 02:31.92 archpodnet Sure. 02:39.31 archpodnet Who. 02:44.84 Paul We offloaded all that to the um to the field processing which is what I did for the last week so basically each one of these bags we went and I devised a data collection. What's the right word form in in wild note and we. 02:49.52 archpodnet Wait right. 03:00.81 archpodnet Okay. 03:03.92 Paul Sit down and weigh account and weigh each of the classes of objects so slag. Ah simple wear Pottery storage wear Pody Stone Lithicx Non-lithic stone. Yeah I Just um. 03:16.99 archpodnet Ah. 03:22.71 Paul And and then the idea was to be able to make heat maps of those at the end in Gis and that went really well so we processed all but I missed I think 28 or 29 of the bags I just ran out of time at the end. Um, so we got almost everything processed. 03:35.90 archpodnet This. 03:42.60 Paul In the same field season that we did all the data collection and a few days ago I generated heat maps of the kinds of distributions that I thought were significant with pottery with slag and with stones and lithics. Not um. You know, aggregated together. So those heat maps I think show us where different kinds of activities were happening on the site so we still have to have a ah group meeting to discuss what I mapped with that. But again proof of concept. This was pretty quick and easy and. Importantly I think it'll be pretty reproducible right? So we have that. But then the other cool thing and I know that you get upset sometimes talking about objects. But um. 04:21.61 archpodnet Um, yeah. 04:32.47 Paul Our archeologists even if they get upset with the object-centricness of of a lot of it also like objects or artifacts so in the surface survey at 1 of the locations we found a cylinder seal on the surface. Ah and the pottery distribution. There was odd and. 04:39.89 archpodnet That's true. 04:44.29 archpodnet Wow. Okay. 04:50.54 Paul 1 of the ah the police guards that was with me that day came up as I was making the collection at this one at the target and from a short distance away. He showed me what he found on the surface which was a um, a human finger bone. Um, so I think that we may have located. 05:01.91 archpodnet Okay, jeez. 05:07.66 Paul The ah the ancient cemetery of the site just from the surface survey. We obviously will have to go back and look at it and I didn't get the chance to bring any of my colleagues out there to take a closer look at it. But I think I can make a strong argument for why this is where this where at least a cemetery was located and then. 05:09.37 archpodnet Wow. 05:25.80 Paul Another thing that came up that was really cool was one of the reasons why we're looking at slag. For example, is we want to get a sense of where the production areas where the industrial areas of the site were and that's why I was saying stone and lithx what I found was that. I'd find lots of little multicolored pebbles. You know Jaspers and and various like quartz and things but where I tended to find those I also found a lot of lithics which I'm not sure why those 2 tended to go together but they seem to be some sort of correlation. 1 So. 05:49.23 archpodnet Who. 05:59.21 Paul Looking at slag looking at the distribution of the stones. We can get some sense perhaps of where the ancient work areas were on the site. 1 of the things that we found which was really cool was a nice big hunk of Lapis Lazily about four centimeters long maybe a little longer. 06:14.93 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:18.15 Paul And so that if you don't know it's this vivid blue stone. It was used a lot in statuary and in cylinder seals and jewelry in ancient mesopotamia and it's not native from there. It has to be. It's brought in all the way from Afghanistan. So. 06:29.78 archpodnet Oh. Wow. 06:36.66 Paul But you know so forty Thousand five hundred years ago somebody treked a long way to get that stone or that stone treked a long way through a lot of hands to get from where it's found to where it was going to be worked into something and this big piece of unworked stone tells us that you know there's some sort of lapidary workshop. 06:46.94 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 06:53.88 Paul In that spot or near to that spot where I collected it. Um and that brings up then another thing that we we want to have a social media presence on the site which meant for the most part Twitter for us. So I posted those I I posted the cylinder seal did not post the human bone. 07:01.10 archpodnet Who. 07:12.33 Paul Which also wasn't from one of the ah the target collections but I did post a picture of that lap is lazily and that I think has had more engagement than any other post I've ever had of people really excited by it because mean if it's something that you know it's something that everybody knows and everybody loves like ooh that's a great piece of Lapis but it also aside from just being something. Really you know, interesting to look at does potentially tell us about what was going on in the past on the site you know and where that kind of activity was happening so that was useful. Um, and you know and it was good to have the social media presence. It was mostly Reid Goodman myself and and ah. Dr. Augusta Mcmahon who is the other co-field director of the project posting on Twitter but but all of our posts got a lot of engagement and there's now a lot of iraqi archaeologists posting on Twitter as well. 07:56.96 archpodnet Yeah. 08:05.52 Paul Ah, so there was a lot of back and forth between us and them you know, mostly likes it but a few questions here and there where did you find that? What's it like yeah yeah, does it compare to what we've been finding but it's interesting to me because it forms then this whole new fairly new. 08:15.18 archpodnet Um, yeah. 08:23.76 Paul Channel for communication amongst scholars. That's not in a regular scholarly venue and is also open to the public. So the public can see what we're doing in a very open and accessible way. So I thought that was also a valuable kind of side effect of of what we were doing. 08:28.93 archpodnet Um, who. 08:34.38 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 08:39.65 archpodnet I mean I think it's really valuable for the public to see like the scientific process happening in real-time you know what I mean because it's always sort of smoke and mirrors for people who don't understand what's happening and I think that's I think it's 1 good thing that Twitter is actually really good for. 08:49.78 Paul Um. 08:55.13 Paul Yeah, it's not just for good getting to ah political fights with people and also there's also some good collaboration that happens there Um, speaking of seeing things happening real time on the scientific process where are you with the editing. 08:57.52 archpodnet So. 09:14.40 Paul Ah, the archeology show and for our listeners whoops I think I lost you. 09:23.72 archpodnet I was muted So let me go ahead and answer you? ah um, okay, yeah, go ahead. 09:25.55 Paul Ah, but let me let me finish. Okay, this for our listeners. Um, we yeah we decided to try something interesting new to us is ah that 4 of us on the project. Decided to record a podcast episode for the archaeology show while we were in the field and we decided that it would be interesting to try to break it up. Not do it as a 1 shot but record it in 3 different segments at 3 different times of the season so we recorded the first segment fairly early at the start of the project with what our hopes and expectations would be. Ah, next one in the middle of the project with um, you know a progress update you know what's worked what hasn't and then the final one wrap up which we kept on getting bump the last few days were hectic which always happens on projects so we couldn't get everybody together. Finally three of us in the airport. 10:07.78 archpodnet We. 10:21.75 Paul Um, we're together and decided to record the final episode in the waiting room at the gate. So your ah your editing is going to be lots of fun I'm sure the sound levels are different every time. 10:27.57 archpodnet Nice. 10:33.50 archpodnet Yes, well that podcast will be out um, will have already been out by the time people are hearing this. So let me yeah because it's going to come out on ah Sunday we're recording this on Thursday before it comes out. Let me check the episode number on that real quick. But. 10:41.00 Paul Awesome. 10:52.84 archpodnet Yeah, because of my my schedule and and how things are working I haven't actually edited the damn thing yet I'm planning on t its ah tomorrow actually yet tomorrow is my editing hole for ts right now this week. So um, but it's going to be episode 1 68 so just look for that and like I said it will have come out. 10:57.48 Paul Oh no. 11:11.17 archpodnet Ah, the Sunday prior to this releasing. So if you're listening to this in real time then it is it is already out. Well if you're listening to this anytime. It's already out so episode 1 68 and we'll probably try to link to that episode in the show notes for this one I'll have to remember to do that because I can't do that until. That one posts so well I kind of can so anyway, that's neither here nor there I'm I'm wondering real quick before I lose this thought in my head the finger bone so you you know for a fact it was human like there's indisputable. 11:36.70 Paul Um, yeah. 11:41.74 Paul Um, I am not a bone specialist so I don't know indisputably but it certainly looked like it to me and I took a picture and everybody that I showed it to said? Oh yeah, that's people. 11:45.37 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 11:51.84 archpodnet Because I mean I know you're on ah a I know you're on a really ancient site and there is a cemetery there you you know you guys know that there's one there? Um, so because you're saying you may have found it. You know, just because of this finger bone but man any other archeological site in the United States it doesn't matter. Where it is or how old we think it is if if remains are found and maybe you didn't know you were going to find remains or you're not in like a confirmed cemetery setting right now. It's like everything shuts down and the authorities are called in now with it being one of the the police there that actually found the bone I'm guessing it was all it was all great but are there. Um, is that was there just no procedure because of where you're at and what you're expecting to find or is there just no real procedure around that to begin with unless you guys say something. 12:41.00 Paul Um, I'm not sure what the actual rules are so somebody who knows better should chime in and correct me on the on the slack or on Twitter but we definitely have to treat human remains with ah with care and respect ah and. 12:47.28 archpodnet Yeah. 12:56.78 archpodnet Sure. 13:00.19 Paul They have to be recorded with the antiquities authority. But I don't know what happens after that I do know that we on the we had 3 trenches open 10 by 10 s actually 1 was 10 by 15 Um, and we encountered at least 5 burials human burials in those trenches. 13:16.59 archpodnet Wow. Okay. 13:19.87 Paul So ah, you know some of them were intact one was a flex burial with a small, a small jar buried with the person. Another one was 2 Maybe 3 people totally commingled spread out across a couple different rooms in the trench that we were excavating. 13:26.48 archpodnet Oh. 13:38.92 Paul So you know different kinds of post depositional processes there. We're not sure why the 1 or 2 or however, many bodies got scattered so badly. But obviously the other ones were were fairly intact burials all that. 13:43.51 archpodnet Well sure. 13:54.50 archpodnet Okay. 13:57.47 Paul All those bones are in storage and I don't know if their final disposition is to go back to Baghdad or what happens. It's never been something I've dealt with in the past. So it's it's all new to me. But yeah I'm I'm confident. 14:07.77 archpodnet In. 14:13.90 Paul Yeah I'd get it give it 95% confidence that that was a human finger bone um and back to the yeah, the the social media. So in addition to this podcast that we decided oh and it's just into Twitter and this podcast which we decided would be an interesting experiment. You know what's it like on a project. 14:15.45 archpodnet Okay. 14:29.80 archpodnet Um. 14:31.79 Paul Um, Dr. Brad Hafford who's on the project. He also has his own Youtube channel devote to archaeology and he had been videotaping everything on the project who was going to put together some videos for that. So. 14:46.00 archpodnet Nice. 14:48.70 Paul We have a multi-pronged approach to that which I'm hoping gets some traction I hope it shows people that it that good field work which is what I think we did is a really collaborative process between a bunch of different people with a bunch of different skills and insights. and and aptitudes um that can work together to try to to you know to reach a common goal. The goal isn't a set you know hey we found this or we did that but we together learned something about this site and about how people in the past lived here. Um, so. I'm just going to in passing mention one of the other projects on this project which was Reid Goodman's soil cores and I mention it because with the social media that was the um, that's the reason why we only had 3 of us rather than the 4 of us who were recording the other. 15:32.79 archpodnet Who. 15:45.52 Paul Segments of that episode only 3 of us were at the airport that day because zaidarrawi had to spend an extra week up in Baghdad negotiating with the antiquities authorities and with customs there was some disconnect between the 2 of them. 15:59.45 archpodnet 0 Okay. 16:01.87 Paul In order to get soil cores back out of the country and so when I was there in the in the fall I was there to do the mapping but I was also there to support reid in collecting soil cores and I did that but then he couldn't bring them out of the country even though he thought he had all the permissions. So he and Zaide both had to stick around for an extra week and a couple days at the end of this project in order for zaid to work his magic which I'm really pleased to say he managed to in the end and they arrived a couple days ago soil cores in hand hey. 16:22.60 archpodnet Oh jeez. 16:33.42 archpodnet Nice. Wow wow I mean I think a soil core I think of like twenty meter long you know 2 But how big are these soil cords that they had yeah. 16:35.42 Paul And we're all absolutely elated that that happened. 16:45.44 Paul Right? So I mean that is what happened? Um, so Reid is looking at long-term changes in the ah the the environment in Southern Iraq and trying to get a sense of what the environment was like when these cities started to congeal when they started to be cities and. 16:56.63 archpodnet Over. 17:05.20 Paul The idea kind of being and this isn't his idea but the idea is that you know we learned that as kids in middle school that these these tel sites form because they've got irrigation canals to bring water into the fields and whatnot around the cities. Um. But it's beginning to look like it was a much marshier wetter environment with the headwaters of the Gulf Farther north than they currently are in antiquity and so this was a much more marshy Riverine lachistine. 17:29.93 archpodnet Moving. 17:38.93 Paul Estuary kind of environment and so some of these canals may not have been to bring water in but may have been to bring water out. So anyhow, he's looking at long-term changes through time with these so cores and he's done them in a bunch of different places and you're right The the big one He hired a company that does environmental testing that. 17:44.86 archpodnet Okay. 17:58.55 Paul Did a soil core that I think went down about twenty five meters and yeah so you don't bring out a twenty five meter long chunk of soil you bring out ones that are about a half meter long each yeah sections of it right? and each one is recorded from this depth to that depth and this depth to that depth. 18:00.58 archpodnet So Wow je. 18:10.36 archpodnet Sections. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 18:16.67 Paul And they're all recorded with their locations and you know and because we hired this company and they wanted to show what they were doing with archeology I flew the drone to take some glamour shots of them at work. Um, and you know and so again it was a collaborative process and those guys were awesome. We in the fall we tried. 18:25.96 archpodnet Nice, nice. 18:35.55 Paul Doing cores and we were just plagued by problems. But these guys the company was Rsk which is an iraqi-based company and they were the consummate professionals they I showed up to work with them. They're like get away from the perimeter and there was ah you know the yellow tape here here's the 0 plugs here's. 18:36.29 archpodnet The. 18:48.55 archpodnet Yeah. 18:52.11 Paul Hard hat you can't come within this area without wearing the hard hat and you could see they were a well-oiled team. The 4 of these men working together. They just knew what to do and even then it took them I think five days of drilling to get down that twenty five meters with 18:56.10 archpodnet Js. 19:04.92 archpodnet Wow, She's yeah, a little different than the soil cores you were using back in the fall isn't it. 19:07.89 Paul Their training and their expertise and their equipment. 19:13.56 Paul Um, yeah, yeah, a really much more professional setup than what we were doing. 19:18.30 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, all right? Well that is the end of the segment. Let's ah, call it there and we'll come back on the other side and wrap up this discussion back in a minute.