00:00.14 archpodnet All right? Everybody welcome back to the arche architect podcast paul is still gallanting around Saudi Arabia he's ah actually there was a mixup in his airline tickets and he was almost coming back in like October. But luckily he's not he's coming back in a couple of weeks so I think he'll be on the next recording we'll see. Ah, but either way today we have back on as our special guest host Ed Gonzalez ten ed how's it gone good good. Yeah, we're up in ah we're up in Calgary Canada right now we we came up here just because it fiddled our schedule we like Canada thought it'd be cooler in the United States and then. 00:25.41 Ed Ah, great. How are you doing. 00:38.71 archpodnet You know we're at the tail end of like a heat wave in British Columbia and Alberta which is crazy but the heat wave only hit like low ninety s so that's good, not like some parts of the United States which are way worse. 00:49.71 Ed Yeah, well ah yeah, greetings from the Rio Grande Valley where it is literally a ° right now. 00:57.44 archpodnet Ah, yeah, oh man. Yeah that's no good for anybody so speaking of well not worth speaking of, but you know hot things virtual virtual stuff right? But in fact, I just saw. And and we haven't watched it yet. We're just like trolling Hbo Max last night just seeing what else out there was new and there's a movie called. It's a documentary actually called we met in virtual reality and just looking at the trailer. You know it's some people who are definitely a little bit extra when it comes to that stuff and and some of them are like. You know, trying to maintain long-term relationships some of them are finding new relationships. It was all about virtual relationships because it's called we met in virtual reality. But the point is some of the people in there are spending like every waking moment that they possibly can in virtual reality. They're. Living their lives. There. They're teaching classes there. They're doing things so virtual reality is ah is a is a thing that obviously it's it's a niche thing right now for a lot of people. It's not a common part of people's everyday lives when they think about visiting a place they think about visiting it. In reality, you know you might look at some pictures none you might look at Instagram you might look at something like that to kind of prep yourself. But it's always let's go there but to be honest, that's not always great for archeology. It's not always great for preservation and it's not always great for carbon footprints. You know you got to fly somewhere. You got to drive somewhere. There's crowds of people. We've been in bamth national park for the last week and my god the number of people that are just up there. There's there's a lake that you can go watch the sunrise over near Lake Louise but you have to literally get in the parking lot at three o'clock in the morning because by three thirty four o'clock it's full and they close it. Because people are waiting for the sun to come up. Yeah, it's nuts. It's absolutely nuts so along those lines. Let's talk about creating a virtual cemetery and and why are we? Why are we talking about this ed. 02:51.69 Ed Well um, so I also want to say I did actually see um that that same documentary you're talking about at the ah, what was it the some hotel I was staying at last week in Rosenberg Texas outside of Houston. 03:07.26 archpodnet Ah, really nice. 03:11.41 Ed Um, yeah, and it's like it's people. So anybody who's like listening this podcast and had experience with second life. This documentary is about vr chat but it feels like in some ways ten years ago watching a documentary about second life or reading. 03:16.81 archpodnet Oh yeah. 03:29.79 Ed Right? coming of age in second life. So um I thought it was pretty cool. You know I mean to to use the the language of the utes today. It was a bit cringe in places but I also felt a lot of sincerity on the part of. 03:32.44 archpodnet What. 03:47.21 Ed People they were were engaging with and I thought that was really cool. 03:47.76 archpodnet Sure there is actually I watched this a few years ago I don't know exactly when it came out but I know I saw it probably None three years ago at the very least a documentary about second life. It was literally the same thing as this except it was second life and it was focused around a few people that. Developed a relationship and actually potentially even got married in second life and then there was a little bit of aftermath too when some of these people finally met in real life and you know maybe it didn't quite hold up or you know, whatever and I think in None case, they were actually in the same house but on. Different computers at other ends of the house and still like interacting in second life because that's just what they knew once they met none but once they met in real life I rl so to speak so you know but None of the yeah. 04:29.59 Ed Wow. Well I mean any you know those of us in long-term relationships know they they require compromise and if that compromise is ah yeah, requiring a digital intermediary for interaction then. You make that compromise I guess. 04:54.45 archpodnet I'll tell you what man I live in a three hundred Square Foot house on wheels with an engine. So my wife and I can totally relate. Yeah, she she says that the only thing that saves our marriage is we both have noise canceling headphones. So. That's she's got them on right now and like watching her typing away in her computer in a living room. She has no idea I'm talking about her. So anyway, it's ah you know one of these things these virtual environments do require though was why we brought up the virtual cemetery. One of the things I did like about second life I haven't logged in there in a really long time. 05:12.24 Ed But. 05:24.73 archpodnet But one of the things I did like about looking around in there is people had created virtual representations of real things in the world crazy things like this you know you could walk around the Enterprise the starship Enterprise from Star Trek right? But then also stuff like pompei and an archeological excavation and you know certain. 05:34.51 Ed And have. 05:43.80 archpodnet Ah, you know certain generic things like that. But then certain real things that people have created that you can go experience that wasn't very good and that's no discredit to them. It's just the the medium wasn't very good wasn't very realistic but it's getting a lot better with modern vr I've got an ocopus quest too sitting right? next to me and I use it. Almost every day for either workout or my home office setup and I don't really use it for Vr chat or anything else like that except I do play golf with one of my colleagues occasionally and we talk about work on a virtual golf course which is kind of fun, but but aside from that we need to be able to recreate things in a more realistic way in Vr and. I think that's what we're going to really focus on today. 06:23.13 Ed Yeah, exactly I mean I think we're talking. Ah you know I'm going to use or talk about cemeteries particularly the cemetery in Rosewood Florida where I've done a lot of my own research. Um in part because you know these are places. And whether it's vr chat second life or a whole host of ah um, know spaces or or or ecosystems where people are delivering virtual content. You know one of the things that is difficult for a lot of places. 06:46.89 archpodnet 7 06:57.96 Ed Particularly those of us who are archaeologists I think there's kind of 2 or even twin complications for visiting a site right? If It's a national park and everybody comes there. You've already talked about the difficulties that we're facing now post Covid they're being sort of overwhelmed ah By. Particularly I guess during tourist season but you know I've heard that about a lot of parks. But what about places where you can't visit either. It's privately owned or it doesn't exist like anthropologists or archaeologists imagined it or or know it existed in the past. 07:20.51 archpodnet Okay. 07:34.97 Ed And so that's one of the things that you know bringing for me bringing together different technologies remote sensing geophysics and 3 d and virtual technologies to reconstruct either extant or ruined sites in a way that's. Immersive but also intuitively so that's what I'm really interested in doing you know I'm doing it with cemeteries. Ah you know, clearly the one in rosewood for those of you who who may not know it's privately owned and while Florida the state of Florida has ah. 07:53.98 archpodnet So move. 08:05.90 archpodnet Oh. 08:11.17 Ed You know, statutes about ah you know, sort of guaranteeing descendants a right to visit those graves. You know this is clearly an important site particularly now what it's August of 2022 we're just literally a few months out from the None anniversary of the destruction of that community. 08:21.71 archpodnet Perhaps. 08:29.31 Ed This is going to be a site that is going to become if I had to predict it This is going to be a site that everybody will be talking about in the coming months. Um, and you know how do we? How do we visit that you know it's privately owned the landowner. 08:36.60 archpodnet Really. 08:45.61 Ed Um, has always worked with direct descendants to grant them access but you know the story of rosewood is much larger and many communities. You know it resonates not just with direct descendants but African Americans in general and of course is um. 08:47.91 archpodnet So. 09:03.39 Ed Is a part of the really the fabric of our nation's history in a really bad and ugly way. But you know we don't want to turn away from that. So How do we make these places accessible. How do we make these places. Um, you know that are part of these sorts of conversations that we need to be having. How can we make them accessible if they don't exist or access to them is controlled and I think most archaeologists will have worked on a site where this set of concerns is present and so you know. 09:34.43 archpodnet But. 09:39.44 Ed I Don't think we'll necessarily want to talk about you know how did you get access to the property and so you know it. It was a long-term process. Anybody who does collaborative or engaged archeology knows it can take years to to gain access to something and that's the case here. But I think what's what's really interesting is the ability of. 09:52.30 archpodnet If. 09:59.34 Ed Various digital 3 D Vr tools to combine datasets like ah photogrammetric models of headstones or tombstones with lidar and um drone captured. Photogrammetry so you know ah other kinds of 3 D surfaces representing the ground of the site bringing those together and delivering that plus ground penetrating radar field mapping with the total station right? This sort of like beautiful mix of traditional and emergent. Technologies within archeology and then delivering it in a way that basically anybody with a cell phone a computer or a set of Vr goggles can access ah the site which is you know. 10:40.97 archpodnet Um. 10:49.86 Ed In this case like many archeological sites is controlled. Access is controlled to that site. 10:51.53 archpodnet Room So we're going to take a break here at a None but when we come back I Want to talk about some of the some of the other Benefits. We kind of alluded to it about you know, virtual reality and then we'll talk about the cemetery itself and a little bit about how you go about. Deciding what kind of data in what order What? what way you need to collect that for the platforms you're going to put this on so we'll do that on the other side of the break back in a minute.