00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everybody we have a special guest today. No no, it's not a guest. It's our our old co-host Paul how you doing Paul. 00:07.47 Paul Yeah, I'm doing okay though. Um I you know as we know I was away in the field for two months um I just listened to all of the ah the episodes while I was away with ah with Ed Gonzales Tene and 00:14.10 archpodnet Um, yeah. 00:19.69 archpodnet Um, yeah. 00:22.66 Paul Those were excellent I mean I really am a big fan of his and his work and and I yeah I really enjoyed those so ah I wasn't really able to listen to any of the podcasts when I was away so I've got like 50 hours of podcasts that I'm trying to catch up on but ah, 25 when I listen to a double speed right. 00:36.44 archpodnet Nice, nice, nice. Well we're spending ah, we're actually spending a couple weeks before we go to the the formula 1 race in Austin again this year like we did last year we're spending a couple weeks at the park we were at down outside of San Antonio um 00:46.60 Paul Um, in. 00:51.41 archpodnet And that's not too far from where Ed is now located. He mentioned he's oh my god what is it called the San Rio something or other I don't know he's down closer to the border of Mexico um, and but not that San Antonio is that far away from there but he said he's really close to where we're going to be so might be able to hook up with Ed and. See some of the stuff he's doing there and also just out of coincidence. We've interviewed people from and I don't know if we have on this podcast but I've interviewed people before from the american veterans archeological um, recovery something or other I can't remember it's ah it's a team of american veterans that are doing archeology. Basically. 01:19.62 Paul Oh. Um, right. 01:27.33 archpodnet On different things and 1 of the projects are doing I just saw their newsletter come out. They're going to be in basically sounds like within about five or ten minutes of where we're staying during the time that we're there so I might be able to go out and. Interview them and and see what kind of see what kind of tech and things that they're using on their projects especially with people who aren't necessarily trained as archaeologists to be interesting to see their approach to things. So yeah I'm hoping all that works out during the time that we're there. Yeah indeed indeed. So this. 01:46.64 Paul Yeah, well fingers crossed that could be an interesting episode. 01:57.53 archpodnet You know we're going to talk about your trip over to Saudi Arabia and in some of the you know some of the methodology and things over there. But of course for people who are not necessarily familiar with say the cm archeology podcast anytime we talk about stuff on the sear archeology podcast. We never mentioned companies. We never mentioned clients. We never mention. Like specifics because a lot of times. There's contracts and things in place that are just you know they prohibit that sort of thing and we and we like to honor that right? So we're going to speak in a little more general terms and and that's really just that's really just being respectful of ah you know of the people involved because you know we're we're talking. We're more interested in. 02:26.30 Paul Is. 02:35.54 archpodnet And kind of what you did over how you did what you did over there. Not necessarily what you did or who you did it for So yeah. 02:38.68 Paul Right? Yeah now this is going to be a little odd for me because you know when I went away to logosh last year ah well and this year I came back with ah with stories to tell we had those episodes that we recorded in the field or the episode that we recorded in the field in Loggosh. 02:44.68 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 02:52.63 archpodnet Okay. 02:56.62 Paul Um, and there's really no prohibitions about what we're talking about you know on an academic project like that I'm sure that certain academic projects there would be ah there would be things that are sensitive especially around like human remains or you know things that might be considered treasures. Um, but we didn't have. 02:57.12 archpodnet Um, sure. 03:06.88 archpodnet Right. 03:12.41 archpodnet No. 03:14.70 Paul We didn't have to worry about that on those this project as you just said, it's ah it's actually a crm um project I did not ask for permission to talk about it here. But so I'm going to have to be very circumspect but ah but I think I could do it because. 03:26.37 archpodnet Sure. 03:31.60 Paul Because there is still. You know we used a fair amount of tech and and it was. It's an interesting contrast for me, um, having these different kinds of experiences since I got back into archeology into field archeology between the Crm projects I'm working on and the academic projects I've been working on. 03:35.49 archpodnet Um. 03:46.61 archpodnet Yeah. 03:47.37 Paul And can do a little compare and contrast maybe without divulging who I worked for or who they were working for who they were hired by. Um. 03:55.43 archpodnet Right. 03:57.87 Paul I wasn't going to mention Saudi but then and when I was listening to all those back episodes. So with ah with Ed we mentioned saudi all the time I was going to say a large middle eastern country. But so I'm sorry if somebody really wanted to go down and so you know suss out what I was doing with whom they could probably figure it out. 04:02.69 archpodnet Um, ah oops I didn't even actually think about that. 04:16.41 archpodnet Yeah. 04:17.84 Paul Ah, but yeah, there are certain sensitivities I know. For example, we yeah, we were asked to take photographs of people working in the field for for the client um of our own team and bonus points If ah, if people had some of the company Swag on them. 04:27.60 archpodnet Um. 04:34.57 archpodnet Right. 04:37.20 Paul However, none of those photos even though we've been taking these photos and even though they know that the ah that the company I was working for wanted them and that the client would appreciate them that over the course of like a month hasn't gone through channels and gotten the gohead. So I knew that if I was going to. 04:53.87 archpodnet Ah. 04:55.97 Paul Asked for permission to speak in something less in generalities. Um, it would be waiting until December or something until I got that permission so you know I don't think we're going to upset anybody though. 05:00.26 archpodnet Yeah, right, right? Yeah, well in you right? and so and like I said that's not really our focus Anyway, it doesn't matter the who it just matters The how that's what we're concerned with on this show. So let's set the stage. 05:15.64 Paul 4 05:20.15 archpodnet Ah, and I just want to point out I have to go back and and review the tape so to speak. But I'm pretty sure you mentioned you were going to Saudi Arabia before you even left like on this show. Ah right right. 05:27.80 Paul Yeah I think I probably did I'm pretty sure I did I think I opened that door. 05:36.49 archpodnet Um, so let's talk about just ah we can set the stage so people can understand like what the environment you were working in was like we did that with logosh too. But what what was the I mean when I think is Saudi Arabia I think of a huge freaking desert which I don't think I'm too far off there. But what? what? what was the environment you were working in and on top of that. What. 05:43.41 Paul Listen. 05:55.52 archpodnet I Guess what kind of archeology were you doing survey excavation stuff like that. 06:00.65 Paul Right? So um, the big desert is one of the things I always try to dissuade people of with their their mental impression of what Arabia is um and for background. Um I did my dissertation research in Yemen which is down at the southern tip of the arabian peninsula um. 06:09.50 archpodnet Um, right. 06:15.55 archpodnet E. 06:18.11 Paul So I spent a lot of time in Arabia I did also work in Petra which is in Northern Arabia um and yes, big chunks of it are very desert. The entire area is with the exception of a few spots in the mountains and in Yemen yeah, the entire area is very arid. 06:21.42 archpodnet Oh yeah. 06:35.90 archpodnet Oh. 06:36.93 Paul Ah, so that that part of your mental image is accurate. But it's not rolling sand dunes forever and ever. Um, there have been people living there since people have been people. You know so a couple 100000 years and people tend not to live in rolling sand dunes they live in places where there's things like water. 06:40.85 archpodnet Right. 06:55.39 Paul And other resources around so there's a long and deep historical and archaeological tradition of people living in such places predominantly mountains and coastal zones. So yeah, ah. 06:55.93 archpodnet Ah. 07:10.16 archpodnet You know. 07:14.47 Paul If you look at the Arabian Peninsula you've got the ah the red sea on one side, you've got the arabian sea on another side. You've got the persian gulf on the third side. It's bounded by water a lot of people live on those coastal zones and also if you look at a topographic map. You'll see that particularly the um. 07:24.97 archpodnet Man. 07:32.92 Paul The west edge of the peninsula is very mountainous and so we were in western Saudi Arabia working in yes desert environments very hot very dry. You know, typically like 110 during the day. 07:48.76 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, is yeah. 07:50.63 Paul Um, but 110 going up and down mountains really craggy mountains the whole time and yes it was a survey. It was a survey and it was different kinds of survey and maybe we'll get into a little bit of the detail of that. Um, but fundamentally we're working on a large development project. 08:09.88 archpodnet Um. 08:10.46 Paul And so we wanted to find out just like CRm in the us we wanted to find out what potential archeological resources would be impacted by that development project. So we had a big team and we're doing various kinds of survey. 08:18.86 archpodnet M. 08:25.20 Paul Ah, some of us were tasked with going to sites that were already known and we had a registry of about a thousand different sites and others were tasked with going over with some selected parcels of land and just walking transects to see what we could find. 08:31.60 archpodnet Okay. 08:43.57 archpodnet Um, okay. 08:44.46 Paul And yeah, so that was the that was the bulk of the first half of of what we were doing. There was those 2 different kinds of survey and I participated in both. 08:54.48 archpodnet Okay, ah, real quick. It's interesting. You mentioned the the red sea persian gulf um the arabian sea. Ah I've never been well I guess I guess technically I've never been to Saudi Arabia but I've been in all of those seas because I came through this to ez canal. 09:11.40 Paul Um, yep. 09:12.48 archpodnet On the enterprise back in 96 and then we came down through the red sea and we went right around up into the persian gulf and did a stop in Dubai and a stop in. Um, although we couldn't leave the fleet landing area in Dubai there was a big issue so we didn't get to see the cool stuff in Dubai. Um. 09:26.22 Paul Is. 09:28.24 archpodnet And then ah, jabal Ali which I can't actually remember where that's at it's in the Uae somewhere. So but anyway it was just such a such an interesting place and some place I'd want to go back to again in and visit for sure. But yeah, so ah crazy. So what was the so what was the last half of the. 09:32.66 Paul Listen. 09:47.46 archpodnet The time you're there like. 09:50.60 Paul Ah, so the last half. Um we had ah well we were still doing the the existing site survey. We finished up the ah the Pedestrian survey of those parcels looking for new sites fairly early on. 09:52.59 archpodnet Yeah. 10:02.74 archpodnet No okay. 10:06.26 Paul But the exception a few that we had to get extra permissions for um and then we were just documenting you know, previously recorded sites Plus of course any other sites that we'd find along the way and the kinds of sites that we'd find it was any time period Archeological time period. So for example early on. Um. 10:17.71 archpodnet Um. 10:25.12 Paul We found ah a Relic Lake bed that had level walk cores on it. That's pretty cool. You know so very old 40000 plus years old um other things were villages that were occupied into the twentieth century. You know so Ottoman period villages. 10:31.70 archpodnet Um, nice that is pretty cool. Yeah yeah. 10:41.00 archpodnet Well. 10:44.86 Paul So anything in between the majority of what we found were various kinds of um, the dating is a little fuzzy Neolithic or Bronze age sites that were mostly either like rings of stones that were probably residences. Um. 10:59.94 archpodnet No. 11:01.95 Paul Very large rings of stones who were monuments of a kind and um and cairns that were mostly burials so and a whole variety of different kinds of different variants on all of these how they were built where exactly they were situated on the landscape How many of them would be found in relationship to another. 11:07.17 archpodnet Okay. 11:21.38 Paul Whether you wouldd find that the like residential rings next to the cairns or in totally separate areas. You know there were a lot of variability on that that side. But um, but we did see enough of these kinds of sites and we started pulling out different patterns. Um, you know what we could expect in association with something else. 11:32.87 archpodnet Me. Um, yeah. 11:38.43 Paul And that was really fun I mean again back to my um to my dissertation I I love working in Arabia and I'd kind of forgotten that and I was brought on this project because of my knowledge of of arabian archeology. Um, and. 11:46.61 archpodnet No. 11:56.11 Paul Within you know, 15 minutes of getting out there. The first day it all started washing back I'd forgot I hadn't used any of this stuff for 20 years it all started coming back and it was so much fun to see this. Yeah and the variety of sites and the people that I worked with and the people that we met there. Yeah. 12:05.52 archpodnet Um, right. 12:13.79 archpodnet And. 12:15.33 Paul The locals um did just the whole suite of air. It was really enjoyable. 12:18.49 archpodnet Awesome! All right? Well let's take a short break and then we will come back in and continue this discussion about your time over there in Saudi Arabia we'll be back in a minute.