00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the architect podcast episode one ninety two final segment for today Marco right? at the end there you were talking about doing geophysics doing magnome tree at uruk and I can't recall. Did you also do the. Magnetomemetry with Dr Faspender at ur as well. 00:22.95 Marco Wolf Ah, no, unfortunately not a debt project was still with other colleagues and that time I had was it a different project and so I only ah know the data but there was not part of collecting it. 00:29.44 archpodnet M. 00:39.34 archpodnet Right now I was just ah curious because as you well know there, there are stakes wooden stakes from that project all over the site and ah and Dr Edel Hyidato ah the project that she was working on in conjunction with ours. Was excavating in a large house kind of on the outer part of the city. Not a lower tell just ah, you know the outer edge of the main tell and that I believe and correct me if I'm wrong I believe that that was found in that magnetomemetry or initially identified in that magnetomemetry and then they've been then. Been excavating it since. 01:18.50 Marco Wolf Yes, um, Dr Otto is huge fan of the prospection method to first get an understanding or more more information and and then judging with that data and other data like satellite images that. 01:32.58 archpodnet Yeah, we've been doing the same at lago and I think that a lot of people are bringing these same kind of suite of tools for Iraq magnetomery drone imagery satellite imagery old aerial imagery spy photos and the like it's. 01:34.32 Marco Wolf Drawn images where to start excavating. And yeah. 01:52.17 archpodnet Seems to be a really rich vein to ah to tap up. 01:56.20 Marco Wolf Yes, exactly this? um and then especially in in or there was for example, the trench I was supervising at the eastmound of or was also and chosen because of the magnettometry. 02:05.10 archpodnet M. 02:11.59 Marco Wolf Which was done there in 2019 02:12.12 archpodnet Right? And how closely did the Magnetome tree Ah hew to what you found when you were actually digging. 02:16.61 Marco Wolf It was rather good and we had I was rather surprised because the yard we could see in the magnetomery was exactly where we found it in the end. But what was interesting because. 02:27.91 archpodnet M. 02:32.46 Marco Wolf The and and the difference from the magnetomery you could see. Okay, there's walls that ah make us pretty much rectangular or square um unit which is pretty large five meters in each direction 5 by four and a half meters 02:48.90 archpodnet So. 02:51.53 Marco Wolf And you had the huge you could see perfectly. Okay, that's the wall and that's the the inside and but when we're excavating it. We realized that the floor of the the yard was covered or was lain out with baked bricks as Well. So Technically we should have not seen that the the difference because it's the same material. But since it was so deep it did not show up in the magnetic image. 03:14.51 archpodnet Ah. 03:19.70 archpodnet Ah, how deep was that because ah I'm this I Actually asking you this professionally not for the podcast. But ah, you know at Lago we're dealing with very very little baked brick. It's almost entirely just unbreaked, unbaked Mud brick. 03:23.61 Marco Wolf Yeah. 03:35.71 archpodnet As opposed to or where there's such a quantity of baked Brick How how much deeper was that floor than the walls. 03:46.55 Marco Wolf Um, the west compared to the upper of ah the highest level ah of bricks we could find we had seventy centimeters difference so we had like 7 to 8 layers of bricks before we hit the. Ah. 03:51.96 archpodnet Oh Wow. Okay. 04:00.50 Marco Wolf The floor which was laed with baed bricks as well. So. 04:01.30 archpodnet And no indication then that that that that courtyard was was paved in the magnetic rams. 04:08.84 Marco Wolf No in the magnettrometry and we could see each room individually since and the walls in comparison. So from my point of view I was like okay, that's our mud. Ah and mud floor I have to be careful not to. 04:21.97 archpodnet M. 04:25.38 Marco Wolf Dig right through it. But then we suddenly hit the bag bricks and it was like ah that's dead I was like oh I did not have to be yeah. 04:31.19 archpodnet Ah, that's fortunate because I dig through mud floors all the time I see them in section I'm like oh yeah, that was the floor that I missed and there's the other floor that I missed and there's the floor I missed before that. But ah up. 04:42.63 Marco Wolf Yeah, and it was trying to be very careful and then we hit the floor and was like oh it did not have to be that careful but well. 04:49.95 archpodnet Yeah, well that's fortunate now that's interesting though that that that it showed up differently with that seventy centimeters I'm not surprised but I am surprised I wanted to actually switch gears again here a little bit early on in the project. The. Where you were working was on what we're calling the Eastel which is a smaller outline tell of the main mound of or and we were having some troubles with the total stations and with the registration of our of our survey stations so there was a day there that we were working you and I were working. Um, shootings between 2 of our survey stations 1 on that Eastel and 1 up on the main mound back and forth about four hundred meters and after about the third time you had to go there. You know back and forth between these two mounts I offered to go instead of you. I said you know you're walking too much and you said oh no I'm used to walking you know I do geophysics and like okay I all you're young, but but sure you do geophysics therefore you're used to walking. It makes a lot of sense. Ah so you don't just do magnetomery when you do geophysics you'd mentioned e r t. 05:52.37 Marco Wolf This is it. 06:04.60 archpodnet Ah, is there a particular kind of geophysical perspective that you personally enjoy doing most. 06:12.62 Marco Wolf Um, if that that kind of would have saved the magnetomemetry because that's what I mostly do or mainly and the er r t I used only free to 4 times. 06:17.28 archpodnet Me. 06:25.51 archpodnet E. 06:27.26 Marco Wolf We're now going to use it again in in February when we're back in the field but ah, mostly magnetomemetry because ah for me, it's always fun to work to be in the field the whole day walking and sweating and then come back at the end of the day. Um. Processing the data and having an image at the end of the day you can see and you can see what you did and what you found and that's always so um, yeah, you can see so much more than and comparable to archeological dig we're sitting in a ah 10 by ten meter trench for five weeks and then you have. Parts of an house excavated in geophysics in magnetomemetry and you have one day and you have ah a whole you have like 5060 houses they lay out so that's always. 07:16.50 archpodnet Right? right? No I get that I was definitely getting that same sense when I was doing the magnetar tree at Lagosh where you know I spend an hour and I do my 45 by 45 and afterwards I process it and I look at him. It's like oh. Oh my goodness. That's what I was just walking over look at this like I could kind of sense this one of the things that I found fascinating was trying to correlate things that we saw on the surface with things that we'd pick up in the magnetomery and then of course you know a step removed to things that we'd find in the excavation. Ah, do you find a lot of correlation between soil stains or yeah, any other kind of surface visible feature and your magnetomery is that is that common. 07:59.92 Marco Wolf Ah, yes, when of course when when you're walking and you're on the feet. You're always checking what can I see and the first and the most stuff you only have the the the soil so you're checking can I see differences in the color and I remember in Georgia we had a huge acre and um. You could see. Okay there's multiple dots with very ah, bright Brown color. We were sure. There must be the mut bricks and when we were walking above them and then checked back and say aya that's the big houses like with 5 with 2 to three meter big walls and like yeah that we could see on the. 08:37.21 Marco Wolf We're walking on top of it. Um, but I can also well give the the opposite example for it because in the you know it as well in Southern Iraq where these ancient cities where there are some cases where you can even see the old houses. 08:37.74 archpodnet That's great. 08:53.74 Marco Wolf While walking on top of them because the the bricks are showing from the surface. Um, and when we are walking with the magnetomery above them. There are some cases where the layers of the bricks. It's where it's like only 1 or 2 layers of bricks left of that wall. Ah, which is so. 08:55.45 archpodnet You. 09:10.99 Marco Wolf Ah, near to the surface that you cannot see it in the magnetomemetry or only ah, a small shadow of it and you were like but I was walking on the obvious house houses. Why did it did not show up in the magnetomery and so that's as there's other cases like that. But that those are very very very. Ah. 09:13.29 archpodnet In. 09:30.70 Marco Wolf Yeah, they, they're not not. They're very rare in most cases if you see something while walking it always correlates with the data you collect and we for example also have a workflow where when we come back, We make sketches and the squares we walked we make notes about not only. What we could see on the surface and from the structures but also from pottery and tools. Um, if yeah if we could see. Okay,, there's pottery from this period or from this period we can see that there is lots of flint tools and stuff like that. We always know that. 09:53.30 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:05.66 Marco Wolf And that is as so ah, very very important in later and in related steps of the interpretation. 10:16.12 archpodnet You know to round this out in addition to being um, well not a digital archaeologist because you already said no but student archeologist who does geophysics. And use it a lot of digital methods I know that from discussions with you I know that during the offseasons back home in Germany you work as a contract archaeologist. Can you give us a sense of what that is do you get to use a lot of these same tools or is the. Regulatory structure in Germany such that you have to use different methods maybe older methods because that's a problem that we bump into sometimes in the us. 10:56.17 Marco Wolf Ah, yes, when but back in Germany I'm contracted as a student worker for a company, an archeological company that is excavating mostly in the area around Munich um, we have no real. And how you say scientific excavations where we apply for for money and start working but we are getting called by ah people that are building their houses or construction sites that want to build a supermarket and stuff and and for them to check if there is any archeology where there. Building their stuff and which we are as excavating and so that they can continue with their work and the way how we do that work is supervised and set and stone by the german by the bavarian. Ah, department for cultural heritage which give in inrregate terms. They give us a ah book where the way how we have to excavate which kind of data we have to collect which we have to present them and that is how you say. 11:52.72 archpodnet Okay. 12:11.81 Marco Wolf Little bit behind what is now and kind of normal or it's already in use in field archeology from universities museums and institutes and I remember until two Thousand Twenty Seventeen we still had to use. Um. Cameras with ah, non-digital cameras with a film to document the the features in addition to the digital ones and they only changed that in 27 because they realized that in the long run there will be no more film since it's and it's. 12:33.72 archpodnet Oh. 12:43.16 archpodnet Um. 12:49.60 Marco Wolf So form of yeah, the the only company for gfim said that they will rapidly shorten their production of those and then it was clear okay in the long run. Ah those analog cameras without digital ah lenses and. 13:08.62 Marco Wolf Formats will just be yeah, will be gone forever so they kind of like okay then we should skip that. Yeah. 13:13.53 archpodnet Right? So the choice in their case was forced by external factors. Do you get a sense that there's an ability. Maybe not as a student archaeologist but is there an ability to to change to adopt more new methods. Ah, from within or is everything have to be forced from externally like the ah the abandonment of film. 13:36.59 Marco Wolf No, no, um the the department is always in search of new methods trying to optimize their their workflow. Ah but a main issue about it is the way how who has to pay for that. 13:42.56 archpodnet Mm. 13:51.11 Marco Wolf Because everything the department says that has to be done has to be paid by the people building. Ah the the houses which in some cases if they get way overboard and say every millimeter has to be in 3 d and stuff like that and it takes lots of work hours. Lots of people. 13:51.59 archpodnet Ah. 13:59.15 archpodnet E. 14:10.96 Marco Wolf And all the private people have to pay for that So and they try to get the perfect balance between how much do we actually need on data to later because to to have later the option to really analyze that. And how much can we ask? the people to pay for that. 14:34.30 archpodnet Yeah, that makes sense Marco it's been pleasure talking to you again I really enjoyed working with you and I hope I get the chance to again and for our listeners. It's what it's this approaching. No, it's after 1 in the morning for you now. So ah. 14:49.91 Marco Wolf I Really appreciate you. 14:50.86 archpodnet I Really Appreciate. You're taking the time to come on here and talk with us and I hope that that some of our listeners find what you had to say interesting and you know I hope that other students find what you say interesting because I thought that the way that you're negotiating the contract archeology the academic archaeology the digital archeology the geophysics. And all these again was ah was a very interesting and well-rounded approach and that's why I wanted you on here. So I Really appreciate Thanks for coming on. 15:16.93 Marco Wolf Thank you for having me was our alright as so nice to speak with you again and if yeah, if there is an option to come back. I'm glad to be back goodnight. 15:27.39 archpodnet Wonderful! Well take care good night.