00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show over buddy Paul how's it going. 00:04.64 Paul It's going pretty good I'm still on that creative kick that I've been on. Um, the latest thing I'm working on I've got it sitting in front of me right now is a little weather sensor for surveying so one of the things that happens when you're doing total station surveying is you've got to have a um well. You should have atmosphere corrections that just the the corrections are on the order of parts per million so it doesn't matter unless you're doing a lot of long distance runs but um, but I incorporated the atmosphereic corrections into my program and. 00:23.98 archpodnet Okay. 00:36.14 archpodnet Ah. 00:40.96 Paul I wanted a little handheld weather sensor that could tell me the barerectric pressure and the the ah the temperature and I have not been able to find one that just does those 2 simple things online unless I want to spend a lot of money. Um, so I'd been. Kind of goofing around with little things that I could program and I found the other day for just a couple bucks online a little fairly accurate temperature and sensor chip called a b m p two eighty and I had a raspberry pi pio sitting around which is a tiny little arduino kind of thing that you program with python. 01:05.48 archpodnet Okay. 01:14.74 Paul And I had a little display and then I found somebody online had a description of doing exactly what I wanted to do so I put them together and it worked and I've been modifying the code and now um I bought a slightly smaller. Um, microcontroller that runs on the same chip. And I just got that put together and so now it's you know a little bit of programming a little bit of soldering. There'll be some 3 d printing and I should have a sub $ $20 little um, pressure and temperature sensor gizmo that I can take with me into the field when I yeah when I do surveying and so I'm pretty excited about that and then the other big. Creative thing and that's why I queued up today's topic is um I'm starting to work on a couple articles based off of the um off of the surface survey that I did at Loggosh. So not the magnetomery survey but the the surface field walking collection kind of survey and um, yeah, so you know still. 02:01.56 archpodnet Okay. 02:11.51 Paul Going hard with all these ah creative projects I think that being off Twitter is doing me a world of good. Ah. 02:17.86 archpodnet Ah, nice, nice. Well hey we didn't talk about this ahead of time. So it's kind of kind of fun just to talk about it now but you know when I had the ah the Rv that we had before this we had really inaccurate temperature readings inside the refrigerator and the freezer and we also didn't have like super great seals and. 02:31.11 Paul Spring sealed. 02:35.24 archpodnet I Had a problem with the ah the gas sonoid going out on that thing all the time and and it would and I wouldn't know so then all of a sudden It would just be warm inside the refrigerator so I was looking for a way to monitor these and we actually had a whole Vicron energy set up and viktron. 02:38.41 Paul So Annoy going out on that thing all the time and one and I wouldn't know just Mormon on Writer If so I was looking for a way to. 02:52.77 archpodnet And this is how I found what the link I just sent in the chat for you? Um viktron actually enabled the ability for ah the vikron devices to actually read these little sensors from a company called ruby r u u v I think they're out of ah the Netherlands or something like that and. You can these sensors are they have the little coin batteries in them like a 20 ah 32 or something like that that lasts forever it does motion so it'll it'll it'll tell you when there's movement. It does pressure. It does temperature and it does humidity and I've actually got 3 of those are actually 4 of those. Um. 03:13.85 Paul Like batteries then I'm like a 28 or something like that last forever. 03:28.16 archpodnet Based throughout the house I've got one in the wine refrigerator because I'll tell you what my wine better be at the right temperature and I'm going to get a warning if it's not um I know and I've got now we've got a residential fridge now. But since I already had these cenches I put them in there anyway. I've got one in the freezer and 1 in the refrigerator and then I've actually got one outside in our water bay. 03:31.60 Paul Yeah, this very important I know. 03:47.14 archpodnet Because if our water pump freezes overnight when we're in these cold temperatures. Ah it could crack and or you know, ah do something bad to the water to the water pump. So I'm usually aware what the temperatures are going to be so I either put a little ceramic heater I've got in there or I make sure our Bay heat is turned on and and is going in there but just in case. Um. 04:00.51 Paul There We make sure our baking is turned on. 04:06.72 archpodnet Through the ruby app it will send me a push notification and alert on my phone if it's outside of a tolerance that I set up for temperature and you can set other tolerances in there as well. So it's actually pretty cool I think there were like twenty bucks apiece um I bought a pack of 4 of them and ah, they've been. Just like super easy and super great and just bluetooth to my phone and you you can get what's called a ruby station to that they will bluetooth to that and that will connect to the internet so you can actually read those from anywhere in the world. Um I don't have that but I just have the the bluetooth sensors. So. Kind of another option for people looking for something like that. It's pretty neat. 04:44.26 Paul Yeah, that's kind of interesting I Um I'm going to definitely take a look at that because my mom just had um a bit of a catastrophe at her house where it's a fairly recent construction and they didn't put the pipes in her bathroom in the right place they are on ah on an external wall. 04:58.62 archpodnet Um. 05:00.35 Paul So while she was away they froze she lives in Minnesota they froze cracked flooded her house. So now she's having you know repairs made they've torn up half the floor hardwood floor. Of course you know they've torn half of it up so that they can replace it. 05:04.50 archpodnet Ah cheese. Oh my God yeah. 05:17.28 Paul It's going to be a real mess but something like this if we could get it in you know in a place maybe put an access panel or something so that we could get it in that wall. You know we could monitor that and keep this from ever happening again because I think it happened once before just not as badly as it did this time. Um, yeah. 05:22.32 archpodnet Yeah. 05:34.85 archpodnet Yeah, and if you get the station and as long as your internet doesn't go down So aka your power doesn't go out or you've got the internet on ah you know and on enter on you got your router on uninterruptable power supply or something like that if it's a real problem. Um, yeah, you'd be able to. Ah. 05:38.74 Paul You. 05:49.40 archpodnet Be able to do whatever you want. So this's actually really good for people listening to this to bring it back to archeology you know people doing like collections management and stuff like that now I mean real like legit museums. They have temperature centers all over the place but you may be working at a smaller place that's. 05:55.63 Paul Like election like that real like. 06:03.88 archpodnet Kind of in the back room of a little community museum or something and and something like this is a very affordable way to monitor the atmosphere conditions. Um, wherever you put the sensor so and it seems seems pretty accurate. So yeah, yeah, all right? Well today's topic 06:15.12 Paul Yeah, well, that's great. 06:21.85 archpodnet You were thinking about this and um, we're we're talking about the changing landscape of archaeological survey as the title indicates and you know we've talked a lot about how survey is changing and should change I've had continuing thoughts about drone survey. And you know, especially after I've mentioned this a million times on the podcast but after working in China Lake around ah China lake China lake naval weapons center let me get the whole title in there and after walking around where they say hey anything metal don't touch it because it might explode. 06:52.98 Paul Touching and they might explod the unexploed or special is to check. 06:53.67 archpodnet Um, you know, call over the unexploded ordinance specialist to check it out and report it in I'm like okay that's not terrifying or anything what are we even doing out here. So you know that's when my my thoughts on drone survey first started to take shape. But what brought you to this topic for the podcast today. 06:58.34 Paul No going out here. 07:10.17 Paul So like I said when I ah on the intro I was um I was thinking about it because I'm currently working on a couple different articles based off of that surface survey that I did and just to bring it back to the to the podcast here is that when I started. Conceiving of this survey which we started in the spring 2022 season of the logosh project and we completed in this past fall season so you know just over a month ago now. Um i. 07:41.38 Paul Had some ideas and I wanted to discuss them and so you and I discussed them on air on the ah on this podcast and we got some really good feedback on the slack channel about things that I could do or things I could should consider um ways to display the data ways to try to interpret the data and. 07:45.84 archpodnet Oh. 07:59.51 Paul I think that I've got a pretty good system and so I'd like to write it up in a couple different formats. One would be ah more of a cookbook to go back to what we were discussing last week ah last episode yeah ah more of a cookbook. Ah for aap. 08:15.50 Paul And then another one which we haven't decided the venue yet. It might be sumer which is a Mesopamian focused. Ah journal you know, scholarly journal we. 08:25.12 archpodnet Ah. 08:28.17 Paul Really want that one to be co-authored by me and the iraqis that I worked with when I was their their professionals themselves they deserved to be on this. They did the bulk of the work. You know? So ah, you know I'll write it. They'll we'll translate it. They'll go through add their edits. We'll put together something that looks then. 08:37.11 archpodnet Right. 08:47.50 Paul At the results and tries to interpret the results. So you know the the first half the first article will be ah what we're doing and the second half will be what we found out by what we did? Um, so long-winded way of saying that I've been doing a lot of background research now on on archeological survey. I did a whole lot in the past. My dissertation itself was based off of a survey but I haven't kept up on literature I have ah an intuitive sense of what people have done and what. 09:07.84 archpodnet Um, ah. 09:11.12 archpodnet Yeah. 09:20.60 Paul You know the the overall landscape to reuse that term of the field of archeological server has been like and I know that it's changed a lot over the years but I need to you know if I'm going to be publishing things in scholarly journals I need to be able to cite I can't just say oh yeah, I'm sure somebody did this. Yeah that's just not going to fly so I've been up to my ears in ah in journal articles. You know some of the earliest stuff is goes all the way back to the sixty s but there's actually been a lot that's gone on over the last yeah you know 15 years or so basically. Covering the time period between when I dropped out of archeology as a profession and now that I'm back into it so I've just had survey on my mind and and one of the things that strikes me all the time, especially with with respect to. 10:02.92 archpodnet Ah. 10:14.93 Paul That loggosh surface survey is how much things have changed because of technology. You know we've been talking a lot lately about digital archaeology and I feel like the digital around archaeology whether or not we want to call it Digital Archaeology has really made archaeological survey. 10:18.79 archpodnet Sure. 10:34.55 Paul Ah, much more viable. That's ah, quite the word I'm looking for ah ah, much more of of an even partner to excavation in terms of the ah the the tools and techniques they are brought to bear you know so. 10:45.40 archpodnet Ah. 10:49.69 Paul It's just it's rattling around in the back of my head and kind of in the same way that I came with a bunch of ideas rattling around in the back of my head to to discuss how to start this project. Ah I wanted to discuss with you Not really purposefully for these articles but just kind of what has changed while you've been doing it you and I have both been. At the archeological survey doing it for a couple decades now and we've seen a lot of things change. And yeah, I've got a bunch of ideas I'm just not going to run on forever and ever. But where would we want to start with this. 11:16.55 archpodnet Yeah, right? Well I think starting personally I see looking at the things that have changed and probably will change and need to change in survey can be kind of put into 2 categories for me at least. The things I'm thinking of right now. The first one is how we do this survey right? So I mentioned I mentioned you know, um, sorry I just lost my train of thought I mentioned oh my god this guy just totally derailed me with a message. Um I mentioned what did I mention. Fuck oh yeah, okay, let me start over Jesus. It's been a day man I mentioned drone survey you know as a way to do like a pre initialial survey. So you know sending sending some sort of automated thing out there or satellite imagery that is of a really really really, really. Um, you know fine resolution which we don't really have access to yet. But we may at some point in the future. You know, or again using drone imagery and ai machine learning to um to look at those images and again you would need something that is of the resolution where you can actually see the types of things we want to record, not just features but artifacts and things like that. 12:13.40 Paul But. 12:32.73 archpodnet Um, it could be that we send you know land-based robots or something out looking way into the future I Keep thinking to that Boston Dynamics dog thing that is just terrifying um that just you know could have sensors on it that just goes I know right? it lives near you too like it could just be in your backyard. 12:42.29 Paul I Hate that thing. 12:51.41 Paul No, it couldn't It will have a blanket thrown over it and dumped in the Lake I Promise you? ah. 12:51.90 archpodnet But ah, ah, nice, nice. Um, but no anyway, it's ah so so I see the method of us actually doing the survey as something that's definitely evolved our our thoughts around how we do that the technology we use. You know the the pre-s surveyvey type of stuff we do before we're actually boots on the ground those kinds of things have definitely evolved but then also it's like how we record what we find and how we how we how we manage that I remember seeing a paper. What was it. It was at least five six years ago which means probably well before this people were thinking about this. But. 13:12.33 Paul But them. 13:28.72 archpodnet There was a Crm company doing a massive survey where you know a lot of times when we're out there doing survey like you and I have worked together. Um, you're you're in a you know thirty meters apart or twenty meters apart whatever the case may be. You're walking along when somebody finds something everybody comes together you scatter around that thing. 13:32.75 Paul So. 13:45.50 archpodnet And you see if there's anything else close to it if there is if there's enough to qualify it as a site you record it as a site. Well the other method that I saw that was really intriguing and I don't know if it's really caught on was these people were basically doing a similar thing except they were much closer together and if somebody found something they searched in a 10 by ten meter grid 13:49.10 Paul Site or well the other men. 14:04.90 archpodnet And everything within that 10 by ten meter grid was recorded point plotted on a Gps and saved no sites were determined um, they just recorded everything and then they did that across the entire site and then used gis and the rules over what makes a site to basically draw boundaries. 14:10.16 Paul Like just recorded the entire night. 14:19.30 Paul Wrong about right? just that we didn't do it in the field. 14:20.52 archpodnet Um, they just simply didn't do it in the field I don't know how they handle photographs and all that stuff as far as site photographs and things. But maybe they go back and do it I don't know but that was interesting to me so that's that's kind of where I see the conversation is what are we recording and how are we doing that and then how are we actually collecting the data. 14:37.32 Paul Yeah, and and that's ah, that's a nice way to break it down I mean between the planning and the doing because they've both seen big changes and maybe let's jump into this after the break. But but what my way of coming at it is that. 14:53.10 Paul In the academic world the survey even though our archaeological survey has been part of doing field work since the start of the field. You know it's it's over one hundred years old people had to know where the sites were before they could dig them but that was the extent of it initially you know you want to locate the site. And then you didn't care about how it was done or why it was done or anything else. The important thing was then having the site so you could so you could dig it but what we've seen over the past couple decades is that archeological survey has become you know from being the little brother to excavation to being a peer. And a lot of that's come out. Ah or that's within the um within the academic archeology sphere but within Crm which is where you've come at it. 15:36.95 archpodnet Ah. 15:40.49 Paul Oh you know it has not had that same sort of kind of stigma against it that that it has in in academic archeology. You know it's It's sometimes been. You know the only thing that's done. You know it's not done in service of excavation. It's often done for its own ends. 15:54.29 archpodnet Yeah. 16:00.43 Paul And um, yeah, the the way that these maybe it's the Crm um world having creeped into the academic I don't think so I think maybe it's probably just the availability of all these new techniques and technologies that have allowed the people who are doing the. 16:09.16 archpodnet Yeah. 16:19.81 Paul Lesser kind of work to really ramp up faster than those who are doing the the excavation and yeah I don't know I'm just again, it's ideas just rattling around in my head not directed in any particular way just trying to get a good sense of what has changed. Because I know a lot has and I've been involved in a lot that has and and you know keep it open ended and let's see where we go. 16:45.37 archpodnet Yeah, exactly well let's see where we go at the end of the segment and ah in just segment 2 How about that we'll take a break and we'll back in a minute.