00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the archeech podcast episode one ninety six and we're talking about conferences and how we can you know, maybe use a little bit of technology to make these things better and you know the first thing that comes to my mind aside from I already mentioned people are using apps which I think is a great advancement forward I'll never forget some of my first essays where. You know there was the bank of computers where you could go look at abstracts and I'm like wow I'm glad we're beyond those days but ah, it's um, you know having the app is really handy. You've got the map and stuff in there. But again you know it doesn't doesn't really do much for the people that either can't attend the conference or for accessibility or for just the fact that. You've got overlapping presentations all the time stuff that you want to see that's happening at literally the same time or maybe you just don't have enough time to see everything you want to go to you want to spend time networking and and doing things and and maybe seeing fewer papers. So all the podcasting conferences I've gone to included a virtual ticket and what they. 00:44.13 Paul Um, yeah. 00:58.30 archpodnet That what that is especially for podfest which is happening literally right now in Orlando and I really wish I could be there. Um, but I'll take Mexico instead anyway, um, podfest in Orlando what I like about that and podcast movement which is probably the biggest podcast conference in the country. They both do similar things. They both have a virtual ticket and they both do ah graduated ticket sale prices which what that means is if you buy say next year's ticket at this year's conference. It's practically 75% off and but they get a gauge on you know. The numbers of people that are coming and and what they need to expect as far as the venue and and you know all the stuff that they're going to need and then as you get closer. You know every three months or so through that year they will start increasing the price and then the last like thirty days the price just starts escalating and escalating and and so that encourages people to. 01:43.56 Paul E. 01:51.60 archpodnet To get 1 ahead of time and then you've got the whole thing with the virtual tickets here but go ahead. 01:53.82 Paul Um, right? Yeah well, you've used the term virtual ticket and I have no idea what that is oh. 02:01.40 archpodnet Yes, well that's what I'm getting to now so virtual ticket yeah is um, basically they film everything high quality production right? They've got real. Cameras in the back of the room real microphones a person in every room and you can do this when your presentations are 45 minutes and you've only got 10 rooms. The essays has said they can't do it because they've got 40 rooms and it would be you know $4000000 to get all this stuff. You know, produced and edited right. 02:14.23 Paul Um. 02:24.27 Paul Um, yeah, back to your previous point. 02:27.21 archpodnet But that's because they have too many presentations. That's the that's the problem there. So if you write so if you eliminate that or or call out a few styles of presentations to say these are longer. These will be filmed and these will be available on the essay website or sj website or triplea website. Whatever the case may be you know at a certain date in the future. So. I could have bought a podfest virtual ticket and I still can actually I can still buy a virtual ticket which means in three or four weeks when all of this is produced I will have access to every single presentation that was done at podfest and that is fantastic without me having to go to Orlando. 02:57.82 Paul Um, right? So I've got 2 questions about this. Um it makes sense to me but the the filming this is for viewing afterwards right? This isn't necessarily to be streamed live. Okay because that. 03:08.76 archpodnet Yes, it's not streaming. 03:15.61 Paul Yeah, okay that that brings up another point that we'll get to later. Um, ah well yeah, conference attendance but also streaming and hybrid and that it becomes complicated but um, the other and there goes my train of thought. 03:16.36 archpodnet It while conference attendance. Yeah. 03:24.66 archpodnet Yeah. 03:32.94 archpodnet Ah, right. 03:33.16 Paul It left the station and I think it's head in the wrong direction right? now? Um, ah oh yeah, no so I'm so wondering if something like the essay that has that huge huge number of of different sessions and papers are being presented I Wonder if some if. 03:46.92 archpodnet No. 03:52.70 Paul They could do something like just pull the attendees beforehand and you know try to identify where the conflicts are going to be people want to go to this one to this session or you know session a or session B but they can't cause it the same time and find those ones that have the highest number of conflicts. 03:55.14 archpodnet Yeah. 04:05.51 archpodnet Her. 04:11.87 Paul Or the highest level of interest if you fortunately don't have a lot of conflicts. Um and focus then on recording those ones and not the others or maybe the other way around I don't know what the the right answer would be but but it seems to me like um, you you don't have to do it for everything you could. 04:13.46 archpodnet Oh. 04:18.79 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 04:27.77 archpodnet Right. 04:30.59 Paul Be smart about it and choose which ones you're going to record because if you pull people beforehand you might get a pretty good explanation from them about what they wanted to see just spitballing. 04:38.19 archpodnet Yeah, well and and they could do that you're right? and and you know Surveys are always tough because they don't know who's going to respond and how many people but they already have that data right? They already have the data because they have somebody. 04:51.46 Paul Um, no. 04:54.42 archpodnet Is monitoring every single room whether somebody's in charge of 10 rooms or one room doesn't matter but they're going back and forth between the rooms as the sessions are happening making sure the a v equipment is is okay and everybody has what they need and they could easily just. You know, even take a a head count. That's not even that accurate. But if there's 4 people in the room versus 40 you're going to know about it right? So you know they could they could get an idea of what types of sessions because like the paleo sessions at any conference anytime I go to the essay and there's something about you know pre clovis it's standing room only you know what I mean and. 05:13.28 Paul Now. 05:24.19 Paul Yeah. 05:27.23 archpodnet And I already know that I know that that's what that's going to be and I got to get there early if I want to be able to you know, actually see something um and there's definitely other types of presentations that are like that and then there's some that are just you know the only people in the room are the grad students professor and his friends right? that could that could happen to make it. So um, you're right. 05:32.36 Paul So. 05:45.72 archpodnet They don't need to film everything in that case. But again I think I think just reducing the number of those types of presentations and sure that relieves some removes some opportunity but you know they don't care about it when it comes to Journal articles. They still have limited space and limited number of issues they haven't increased the number of American antiquity issues to weekly. To allow more people in have they it's still pretty Exclusive. You still have to get into it. Um, why not make the conference a similar thing but provide more value you know so and you've heard the. Complaints before too of if you provide a virtual ticket or you provide videos of everything then nobody will go to the conference and then they can't afford the venue and they can't hold the conference but that part right? Then they can't afford the video but that's why places like podfest and podcast moving and other conferences start selling tickets. 06:23.38 Paul Yeah, and that they can't afford the video. 06:33.75 archpodnet The day that the conference starts they start telling selling tickets for next year and people want that lower price so they make sure that lower price like if they make sure that lower price is to the point where like if half the people bought their tickets that day they can still afford to do the conference right? because these conferences are expensive. Podcast movement was like $1200 for three days 06:50.20 Paul Um, even. 06:52.51 archpodnet So and I think podfest on the average depending on when you bought your ticket was anywhere from $800 to $1500 and there was like ah like a network the one I wanted to really go to at podfest was there was a whole network track for network people who run podcast networks to network with other people. It was $3000 07:08.95 Paul Um, wow. 07:11.45 archpodnet Included catered meals and private rooms to talk in and things like that and they really did it up for those people but it was a high high value and you would walk away from that with some really actionable things that you could do and and and new knowledge and and friendships and networks that you created so. And then that's the other thing that these conferences are doing. They're not creating space enough for that kind of stuff to happen. 07:34.65 Paul Well related to that and um, also related to your point about letting everybody in is that one of the functions that an academic conference serves is to allow people to you know to get their academic boat and fee days right? Especially early career scholars. 07:45.83 archpodnet Yeah, sure. 07:51.90 Paul Ah, and so and I don't have a particular point here, but it was brought up in the Crm archeology podcast about taking ah teachers professors taking their students to a conference to learn the etiquette and to learn how these things function and such. Ah. 08:02.20 archpodnet Yeah, right. 08:10.29 Paul I wonder if those 2 ideas could be kind of melded in some way so that you don't have to provide a speaking venue necessarily for everybody that that potentially could be talking but you can still provide a space for people to come and learn and network and do all that I guess to a certain extent. 08:17.41 archpodnet Um. 08:29.37 Paul That's what the ah poster sessions have traditionally filled but I've always felt like the poster sessions are a little kind of the the you know the redheaded step child of the rest of the conference. 08:37.86 archpodnet Yeah, can seen that way. But that being said though every time I go to a post recession. It's usually packed for a little while. So at least there at least people are making their way through there but I don't know how many they're stopping at and looking at. So yeah, right. 08:48.30 Paul No well then your experience is different than mine because I usually find them to be kind of a desert wastelands. 08:56.40 archpodnet I'm not saying the information. There's always good but people are curious to see what's there? Yeah yeah, yeah for sure for sure. 09:02.20 Paul Oh and I'm not saying that it's bad I just I tend to find that there aren't many people there. Maybe it's a times that I go there or you know maybe things have changed in the last decade and a half or whatever it is since I've gone to archeological conferences. But um. 09:13.69 archpodnet Right? Well I mean speaking and speaking to your point of you know people needing to present at conferences for certain academic reasons or you know what have you? it's ah it seems to me like. 09:18.93 Paul But that's been my experience. 09:30.18 archpodnet You could take something like the flagship conferences like the Big. You know the big ones that happened the SASH a triple a a I those conferences the big 4 It seems like you could take those and again make them more focused around the physical attributes of being there right? So the longer presentations with more interactivity. The. More networking events. Um, you know, maybe even special tickets like I was mentioning for that one for people that want to do different things and having the space for them to do that. You know, whatever that may be and then having more frequent but fully virtual conferences like Theulturo share events that we're doing that. 10:04.95 Paul And here. 10:08.35 archpodnet People can get those you know people can get those credentials and present it those those areas but universities need to recognize that kind of stuff as an actual presentation. So yeah. 10:18.29 Paul Yeah, yeah, no, our minds are going in the same place here with this because I was just thinking that it reminds me a lot of the discussion. Very valid discussions happening about academic publishing. It's like how especially in this age where we're where everybody's at least paying lip service to community engagement. 10:27.24 archpodnet Death. 10:34.22 archpodnet Right. 10:36.82 Paul And reaching beyond the borders of academia. How do you weigh an actively red blog or a very active Twitter feed especially if it's got a lot of good educational material in it if it cites its sources or something. 10:45.90 archpodnet Oh. 10:53.86 Paul Versus a um versus an article in a prestige Journal you know, right now universities are not set up to weigh those ones not even equally one counts. The other doesn't you know and people recognize this as a problem. Ah, but I'm not sure what kind of solutions are greenheads but but I think that it out the the. 10:54.62 archpodnet Oh. 11:02.55 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 11:13.65 Paul What you're suggesting here I think I agree with is expand it. So it's not just the the print publication and what counts as a valid print publication. But what counts as a valid venue for a lecture. It does it have to be the SHTheSA you know, whatever or can you do you know. 11:22.67 archpodnet Yeah. 11:31.58 Paul Why doesn't your local archeological society count the same as that. Maybe it does maybe it doesn't it depends on your university. Um, why doesn't a third party 1 like you're talking about with culturo why doesn't that count in the same way. Um. 11:33.16 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 11:44.74 archpodnet Ah. 11:47.10 Paul I Think that there's a certain amount of Gatekeeping. There's a certain amount of expectation I guess that that if you're doing it at the bigger venue whether it's a bigger publication or a bigger conference that there's a minimum quality requirement that can't necessarily be guaranteed at the the lower ones. But. We've all been to real stinkers of talks at Bay I Mean in fact, the reason why I haven't been to a conference since since 2010 was because I gave one of those stinkers of my yeah Talk. Ah. 12:14.58 archpodnet Yeah, ah, nice. Nice. Yeah I've ah I've definitely seen some very very terrible presentations. But here's the thing like the university that you're doing that for is not sitting in the room. The fact that you were even listed. In the book is really all that counts you even have to go to the conference right? once you once you say you're submitting a paper like that's your proof you're in the abstract book. That's it done. You know so it's just it's all smoke and mirrors and you're right? If if they could just acknowledge these other sources I remember with blogging. 12:32.23 Paul Um, that's true. Yeah, right. 12:48.54 archpodnet I used to do that heavily before the ah archaeology podcast network I wrote over 250 blog posts and I would talk to other people that were in archaeology blogging and doing different things and they'd all talk about how they can't you know, spend more time on blogging because their university doesn't recognize it as an academic you know outlet or a product and. 13:03.63 Paul Right. 13:06.70 archpodnet We all would talk about how blogging is way more peer reviewed than any paper you're going to submit where like 2 2 or 3 reviewers look at it like literally the whole archeological community on like Twitter and other sources are tearing you to shreds like that's you know and making you think about it like that's that's that's real peer review right? there and. 13:20.78 Paul Um, yeah, ah. 13:26.20 archpodnet You know it actually causes you to rethink your approach and and what you're doing and things like that and yeah, it's just unfortunate that that is not as recognized although I have heard and in recent years that you know some universities especially as. Those people that were blogging ten years ago come into these leadership positions and come into these positions at the universities that that starting to shift I think you know like Bill white bill white is now at Berkeley I'm sure he would look at blogging a lot differently than anybody else because he's written hundreds of blog posts you know and he's been on the podcast the serra mar podcast for 10 years now. 13:42.76 Paul Right. 13:49.72 Paul B. Um, right? yeah. 13:59.35 archpodnet And so he's got a very different idea of what academic presentation looks like. 14:06.70 Paul Yeah, no, and ah so maybe be a case of you know that old that old notion with with academia that you don't get any real change until 1 generation dies out in the next generation takes their place and maybe we're getting to that point. but but I think that these are. 14:17.70 archpodnet Yeah. 14:23.89 Paul These are very important discussions and they interrelate and now that we've got this, you know couple years of a lot of remote stuff under our belt. We not only have the ability to think differently. We have some technical expertise about how to implement things differently and there's increasingly. 14:36.94 archpodnet Nothing. 14:43.63 Paul Become a sense that we have an ethical obligation to reconsider some of these so you know maybe let's take a break and come back in the next section and see if you and I can brainstorm some ways of bringing tech to bear to democratize and improve our experience around conferences. 14:47.15 archpodnet Yeah. Me. 15:02.78 Paul Ah, not just by throwing tech at it by but by throwing thoughtful tech at it.