00:01.44 archpodnet Welcome back to the archeotech podcast episode 196 and we're talking about improving conferences with a little bit of as Paul said thoughtful technology I love that so I want to get into some just wacky conference ideas. But 1 thing. Um I did want to mention first about physical conferences again. Is 1 thing I really like that the society for historical archeology does is they have the tech room and one of the cool things about the tech room is. It's a place where you're not being presented something you get there and you get to play with something right? like I've brought tablets into the tech room and wild note I've brought. Um, I've done podcasting with the apn in there where I actually sit there and um, you know record with different people and and show them hey here. It's pretty easy to do a podcast you have to learn a bit of editing but it's pretty easy to do a podcast right? So ah, it's just really cool and people have brought virtual reality headsets in so you can put it on and see what it looks like and. 00:43.26 Paul New. 00:54.29 archpodnet You know drones and it's hard to fly drones in most conference venues. But it's not impossible I'm here to tell you that and ah, it's just it's just a really cool you know idea and I would love to see more of that at conferences where people can just really get their hands on something they wouldn't normally get to use and really play with it and outside of a sales. You know, pitch in the bookroom. So You know. 01:16.60 Paul That's interesting I didn't know about this but that sounds to me a lot like what I was talking about at this. Ah this trade conference that we'd go to in ad tech. You know we went there specifically for the hands on the ability to to pick the brain. 01:22.11 archpodnet Yeah. 01:32.62 Paul At a sitdown session of a you know pick the brain of of an expert. It's out there at a sit down session and then take a little time to work on our own problems. You know under the supervision under the assistance of other people who either know the solutions themselves or are working through the same issues themselves. Um that ah. 01:36.46 archpodnet Me. 01:47.59 archpodnet Right? right. 01:52.37 Paul Good idea I think just as a general purpose for any general archaeological conference right? So you know it might not necessarily work at your state archeological conference. Maybe it would I don't know ah but for something big like the SJ essay whatever um 01:59.90 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 02:10.94 Paul That might be a ah good way of of breaking out some of that and introducing some of that. How to that I was lamenting earlier in the first segment I think that doesn't really exist at least in my experience at these big conferences. 02:23.93 archpodnet Right? And now conference organizers that may be listening to this show are going whole on a minute. We've got Workshops. We've got workshops that are full day half day workshops that you can pay a little bit of extra money for and do it but they always happen. The day before the conference really starts right? So you've got to spend extra money show up early and it's not presented as a feature of the conference. It's not presented as this is part of the conference. It's outside of the conference and it's before and it's just. 02:40.24 Paul You. 02:52.80 Paul Right. 02:55.74 archpodnet Again, it's inaccessible to a lot of people. It's already $2000 to go to the conference with airfare hotel and conference fees now we got to show up a day early just to learn something come on. 03:02.22 Paul Yeah, no, and you know the book room I think is actually a great model for that because the bookroom is something that exists you know through most of the the time of the the lectures of the conference and people that are passing between 1 lecture or another. 03:07.52 archpodnet Yeah. 03:13.83 archpodnet Right. 03:17.96 Paul Or there just doesn't happen to be a session that interests them for the next half hour will go to the bookroom so you know if you open up a a tech venue like that that might work. Um, the downside that I see immediately about this is that one of the big advantages of tech, especially like I keep on saying post and post. Um. 03:20.39 archpodnet Oh. 03:35.68 archpodnet So. 03:37.35 Paul Covid is the ability to displace the conference spatially right? So I wonder if there's a good way of doing that. Um that that kind of tech learning room. So that somebody that's not physically at the conference but is still participating Maybe with. 03:41.71 archpodnet Right. 03:55.67 archpodnet Ah. 03:57.78 Paul Virtual ticket or whatever um can can be involved in that can can grab somebody's attention and and assistance for a little bit. 04:05.10 archpodnet Yeah, and that is obviously the challenge right? That is a bigger challenge but I do think that there are ways to do that. It would take a little bit more development knowledge on on certain people's you know, skill set to be able to do so. But. That's what I wanted to talk about really at the end of this was how can we just really blow up the whole idea of the conference and become the anthropologists that we all say we are and treat the environment better be more inclusive. All these things we complain about that conferences. Do I mean there isn't an essay that goes by that somebody doesn't. Have some sort of either either gender or um, you know me too moment or something like that right? It's just all these things always happen and people are up in arms about it. But they're not really talking about the fact that there's a massive section of people that couldn't even go to that conference because. 04:44.60 Paul Thrown up. 04:52.46 Paul Um, right. 04:55.38 archpodnet You know, maybe they're wheelchair bound and it's just while they're accessible if you can get there. It's hard to get there right? It's expensive to get there. Um, you know, maybe they? Ah, maybe they've got other you know issues that prevent them from fully immersing themselves in the Conference. So I Want to talk about you know the virtual conference idea which is. Again I don't think is that wacky. But yeah, go ahead. 05:17.15 Paul Um, yeah, no I was going to say ah you're saying you know people who are wheelchair bound. We're trying to find it really? um I don't want to say unusual because that that makes it a little rarefied beyond what should be but ah extenuating circumstances. Well 1 thing that that. 05:33.30 archpodnet The. 05:35.61 Paul Prevents a lot of people from being able to go to conferences is they have families if you're an early career professor you're right in that young child age. You're already tired and stressed out and. 05:37.57 archpodnet Oh yeah, yeah. 05:50.21 Paul Chances are your spouse. Your partner is also tired and stressed out and being able to take a few days off over a weekend ah in order to go across the country to a conference is not feasible so you know including those kinds of people I think would be a huge boon for everybody too. Um. 05:52.49 archpodnet Right. 06:07.93 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:09.76 Paul And again, that's odd to make the physical handicap scenes something weird, but this is something that societally people expect as something you should somehow be doing um and that we as academics don't acknowledge that is is problematic. 06:18.96 archpodnet Um, yeah, well and that. 06:26.60 archpodnet And and just to add to the cost too that I didn't even think about that you brought up is you know as archaeologist most of us are probably living where the work is or where the job is right? So we're not more than likely living where there's family and and people you know, maybe you have close friends that could do this. But. 06:27.70 Paul Ah. 06:35.61 Paul M. 06:44.38 archpodnet You know on top of of the several thousand dollars you're going to have to pay to go to the conference. Even if you've got a partner that can maybe take care of the kids that partner probably also has a job so during the day now you've got daycare that you're having to pay for or maybe you're having to pay for it for the whole time if you're a single parent and you know you've got a I don't know. You you can board your dogs I don't even know what you do if your're kids if you' got to be gone for like 3 or four days because a lot of these conference. Don't have like a great way to take care of children. But it's also even if they do have child care on site. That's probably going to cost you money and even if it's free. It's just. Something you're just thinking about while you're at the conference and you're only able to focus you know. 07:20.99 Paul Um, so what I hear a saying is ah you know we've had a couple ideas about restructuring how conferences are done but we haven't brought a whole lot of tech to it at the the 1 tech that we've kind of been skirting around here is is hybrid and ah. 07:26.93 archpodnet Yeah, right. 07:38.85 Paul I'm going to have to go based off of what I've heard from a lot of people. Hybrid is a nay. It's not here Yay or nay it's a nay, um a lot of schools for example, have dropped the hybrid component of classes that it became too hard now part of the reason why. 07:51.49 archpodnet Yeah. 07:56.30 Paul Became too hard is because students you know your typical 19 year old given the option of staying in bed and going to class or going to class and going to class chooses to say in bed. Um, you know that's unfair to 19 year olds I know but um, the the reality is that it's. 08:05.99 archpodnet And yeah. 08:15.53 Paul Become a burden on a lot of teachers that they haven't figured out how to overcome and maybe can't be overcome with the current set of tools but a lot of what you and I have been talking about here would probably be facilitated by having a hybrid component. 08:19.39 archpodnet Sure. 08:33.68 Paul If not to the entire conference at lease a certain sessions of it and you know I'm I'm torn because it appeals to me intuitively. But I also I've heard horror stories I've heard horror stories from real conferences where they try to do this and they tear down the entire network at the ah at the conference venue because it can't handle all those. 08:35.11 archpodnet No. 08:41.90 archpodnet Yeah. 08:50.51 archpodnet Yeah. 08:53.39 Paul Lectures happening at once all streaming out all at the same time. It just isn't there or they can do it and it jacks up the price of the entire rental of the venue space to such a high amount that that they can't do it Functionally you know it. It becomes a thing that they only. 08:55.83 archpodnet Right. 09:07.51 archpodnet Yeah, just. 09:12.95 Paul You know businesses and and trade show kind of conferences can do but not your average academic conference. So I don't know where do you sit on hybrid. 09:16.85 archpodnet No. Well I Think the only reason that I actually don't think Hybrid is a good idea is because I think the time for it is passed to be honest with you I Think if we were going to do this virtual ticket kind of thing in the hybrid streaming Model. We should have started doing that ten years ago but now. 09:36.20 Paul You are movement. 09:38.35 archpodnet Everybody's the other conferences are starting to move beyond that right there. There's still physical conferences because people get a lot of value from being together in a space and being to do that. But as you said covid has changed a lot of things on our perception of what's possible, right? so. 1 thing that always sticks in my head and it's one of the bullet points that I wrote down here is second life and if you've never heard a second life I don't know how they stay in business. They've got like 5 people that are still paying them. You know to be on the platform and in fact. 09:59.15 Paul And. 10:10.53 archpodnet I can't remember what it's called. But if you if you search like the second life documentary or something. There's something on Netflix or hulu yeah, where people met in second life and then got married in second life and then they stay in second life they they still don't even live together some of them do live together and those relationships in some cases fell apart because they. 10:14.24 Paul All right, right? right? yeah. Was it. 10:29.80 archpodnet Really could only exist virtually together and but the whole thing about it is not not second life or the platform or whatever you might think about that. But the thing about second life is. It's 100% inclusive well for people that can manipulate a computer and see the screen right? There's obviously people that would have a challenge with that. But um, it's. 10:30.43 Paul And with. 10:42.19 Paul Are. 10:48.96 archpodnet What's cool about it and what's cool about that leading into other virtual reality stuff like I have an oculus quest too and there's a lot of venues inside of the oculus quest too where you can meet up with other people and what's cool about both of these systems is the proximity algorithms that they have in there. So when you're in say second life. And you're facing somebody who's speaking you hear them speaking when you turn to the side. They're coming out of your right ear. They're coming out of your right earpiece when you walk away from them around a certain radius. You can no longer hear them so you can still generate those those group conversations. Um in second life and in Oculus. Ah, different oculus environments you can put presentations up on the screen you can still have a powerpoint if you want to and people can gather around and watch it and then they can ask questions and you can you can retire to another room or section or a mountaintop covered in snow who cares right. 11:30.86 Paul Listen. 11:40.67 archpodnet Like you can fly around and hover up ten thousand feet above the conference and have a conversation and nobody can hear you you know it's it's those kinds of things and and and stuff that you can't even do at conferences like I can say listen lock this conversation down between me and Paul I don't want anybody else to be able to hear this I want to talk only to Paul right? and you can't do that at a conference unless you. Literally go to another room. So the the capabilities there people just need to stop being afraid of that kind of stuff and start realizing that virtual conference doesn't mean a freaking zoom call where only 1 person can talk at 1 time right? That's what people think of as virtual conferences right? now they think Zoom calls and. 12:11.72 Paul You you. 12:17.83 archpodnet That's stupid. That's a good step in the right direction but it's stupid right? We should not do conferences that way. Um I'm not doing a very good job of promoting cultural share. But you know which is basically a fancy Zoom call but we do specifically on these cultural share events and we'll we'll link to culturalmedia.com in the show notes. But. We're trying to do these quarterly events the next one's coming up probably about the time that you're hearing this or a little bit after that. So check it out. It's free, but it's more interactive so go ahead. 12:45.47 Paul Yeah, well what you're talking about here is the the knob of what a lot of people bring up anytime you talk about how to reform or recompose conferences is that social aspect the networking the proximity what you gain from being in the same space and having. 12:57.43 archpodnet Yeah. 13:05.30 Paul Nice organic conversations with people which is different than what your conversations are like when they're mediated through zoome. Um, so maybe we just leave this out there food for thought. Um, how do you do that. 13:10.80 archpodnet Yeah. 13:22.46 Paul You suggested possibly through second life. Um, but that the real question isn't that that the particular tech that you're going to apply to it. But we're trying to imagine what that kind of a space would be where you and I Chris are thousands of miles apart but we're actually talking to each other not talking at each other. 13:40.87 archpodnet Um, yeah. 13:42.10 Paul Ah, which is what happens in a zoome call and frankly, what happens at a lecture at a conference and that's not why people are going to the conference they're going for the stuff between the lectures. 13:51.47 archpodnet Right? right? right? exactly exactly and that is another thing that I like about let's say a second life type of environment or you know some one of the oculus environments or something like that is that when the conference is over. Nobody's kicking you out. Right? You know the hotel's not saying you have to leave. You can continue to meet in the same space for as long as you want you can show up next week you can show up tomorrow morning when and everybody would normally be on an airplane and ready to go. You can you can literally do whatever you want, you can keep that conversation going. You can have that venue. 14:10.31 Paul Um, boom. 14:21.59 Paul Um, newest. 14:26.34 archpodnet Ah, to do that in the same exact way and it doesn't have to end that way. You know it doesn't have to end there whereas conferences always end and there's always you're always energized after a conference if you did it right? and you've got all these ideas you've got people that you met. You've got things that are maybe in motion but then like 90% of them die. Unless 1 person keeps it going right? So if you had this constant space that didn't feel like I'm out of the conference now and therefore I'm out of this headspace if you were just lived in that space I feel like you'd get a lot more done and you need to have a lot more productivity. So. 14:56.50 Paul Yeah. 15:00.63 archpodnet Yeah I work in my oculus all the time in just a virtual desktop environment and there's other people I like I do like the solitary environments they have but I ah sometimes I just go to like the coffee shop they call it the immersed cafe it's immersed vr is what I use and they go to the immersed cafe are there's other people just working and if you're unmuted. You can see they're unmuted and you can be like. You know, hey how you doing what's going on. You know, just like you would it maybe a normal coffee shop. You know you can introduce yourself or also like a normal coffee shop. You can put in your headphones and not talk to anyone so you know it's your choice but it's it's so socially interactive and. The only reason I'm not promoting the oculus more is because of the barrier to entry right? It's way less than a conference but it's still three hundred bucks you know or more depending on what you're getting so there's definitely a barrier to entry there of the equipment whereas most people have access to a rudimentary computer which will definitely run second life for free. 15:38.44 Paul Now. 15:53.80 Paul M. 15:55.12 archpodnet You know you don't have to pay for second life. You just download it and run it. It's resource intensive if you got everything turned up but you can turn everything down graphics wise and still have the same experience as everybody else, you just may see more you know 8 bit graphics than you know higher. So yeah. But I think that's where we want to go and I'm going to make a pledge right now that by the end of 2024 I want to say by the end of 2023 but I'll shoot myself in the foot by the end of twenty forty four we will have held a conference in virtual reality um through cultural media and I want to do it by the end of this year but 1 ah hundred percent by the end of 2024 we'll have held a conference in virtual reality I don't know what that's going to look like or what that means it might just be second life for the inclusivity aspect of it and the and the low barrier to entry but it's going to be something and we'll we'll do it. So yeah, indeed all right? Any final thoughts on. 16:44.40 Paul Cool sounds like fun. 16:51.27 archpodnet Crazy conferences. 16:52.97 Paul Ah, no I think I'm just getting ramped up now. So I've got initial thoughts so where should we start now I know you've got a a meeting to go to another virtual meeting and I have a whiny dog that needs to be fed. 17:02.19 archpodnet Ah, yeah, indeed. 17:09.22 archpodnet Ah, all right, all right? Well thanks Paul and listen I want to hear everybody's ideas reach out to us through the contact in the show notes look down at your device go to arkpodnett.com/archeech and you can see the episode show notes if you're I don't so listening to this some other way but let's hear your conference ideas if you're on our slack team. 17:09.81 Paul So we should probably wrap this up. 17:18.92 Paul Um, and. 17:28.53 archpodnet Already know a few people that are going to chime up and say here's what I would like to see and do and I'm really looking forward to those discussions. So let's have that discussion and keep it going and maybe some people who are in a position to do something about it will hear these conversations and they will start making the moves. So. 17:29.37 Paul Um, oh yeah, oh. 17:42.97 Paul Cool. Thanks Chris take care. 17:45.91 archpodnet All right? Thanks Paul! We'll see you next time.