00:00.00 archpodnet All right welcome to the show for buddy Paul how's it going? didn't expect to see you here today. 00:07.47 Paul Yeah, well see perfect for a audio medium. Ah yeah, I'm pretty good. Um, you know I've been out in the field a lot over the last year and I keep on promising to try to to. 00:07.77 archpodnet Well, you know. 00:22.14 Paul Talk to you when I'm in the field and this time I actually woke up when my alarm went off and and here we are and I actually have internet for a little bit so we'll see hopefully this ah this continues. But right now I'm back on another project in Saudi Arabia again and I'm going to be here until probably early may. 00:35.72 archpodnet Um, nice. Okay, wow. That's a long time. Yeah is it. Um, is it. Ah I mean what's it. What's it like in the area that you're at is it is it. 00:40.84 Paul Yeah. 00:49.69 archpodnet Sand Dunes and dusty is it mountainous and tree to you know? what's it look like. 00:54.00 Paul Oh it's beautiful here. It's um, so we're living in a village just a little north of the city of or village of Aulla which is kind of near Hegra which is a famous navitean site 8 01:05.18 archpodnet Okay. 01:09.51 Paul Tourist thing that you'll see of Saudi Arabia will have you know these navitean facades. So that's up the street just about 10 minutes 15 minutes from us and then we have another very important site called deitan that's just down the road we drive past it on our way to work and it's these sandstone. 01:16.73 archpodnet Oh. 01:26.93 Paul Cliff Mountain Craggy things with with with beautiful palm groves and it's It's just it's stunning where I'm at I'm I'm really lucky to be here. Yeah, and the archeology is kind of cool too. 01:36.93 archpodnet Nice, nice. That's really awesome. Is it? Yeah yeah, well that's cool. Yeah, and this is ah is a C or M project you're on not winning your academic projects So as usual, there's probably not a whole lot. You can say about it. But. 01:50.54 Paul Yep, that's true. Yeah I'll have to be a little circumspect but um, but I think it's a little less sensitive than what I did out here in Saudi last year um 01:53.71 archpodnet Yeah. 02:01.33 Paul So you know I've been put on a bunch of different projects. We're doing a little bit of survey work out in the desert looking for sites. Um, and as of yesterday I'm going to be doing some some monitoring in the village here in the old city and. 02:02.20 archpodnet Huh. 02:19.85 Paul Because it's Ramadan it's going to start going to a night schedule so ah we're going to be looking at some burials and um, yeah, just a few of us. So I've been joking that it's the skeleton crew working the graveyard shift doing burials. 02:22.74 archpodnet Lo. 02:37.58 archpodnet Ah, ah, nice. 02:38.10 Paul Because I couldn't pack anymore dad jokes into one thing so were you at Chris. 02:43.13 archpodnet Ah, wow, yeah, well we are still in Mexico as we're recording this I don't think we're in Mexico as you're listening to this but hey I'm trying to think I guess this probably goes out next week I don't know either way we're leaving at the end of march. 02:47.86 Paul And. 02:59.45 archpodnet And we'll have been here for two months just a couple days over two months which is really the longest. We've spent anywhere except for wild horse campground during those projects we did out in Nevada with you. We were there for like three months I think in that location but as we've been traveling around. 03:05.50 Paul Are using. 03:14.30 Paul Right. 03:17.15 archpodnet Aside from that archeology project. This is the longest. We've sat anywhere and it's um, it's it's so nice. We just like had no compulsion to leave because you know we were supposed to be up in Arizona near the grand canyon right now and it was just cold and snowy up there and instead we just kind of pushed everything back a month and now we're going to go. Up into Arizona for the first well at Northern Arizona for the first couple of weeks of April and then we're doing another ah Rv gathering thing about the third week of April and then once that's over. We're headed towards California and then up the California coast up into the pacific northwest for the summertime and then ah. 03:44.65 Paul Easy. 03:54.40 archpodnet You know, moving on from there. So um and then down back to the to reno in September for the Reno air races which I don't know momentous occasion talk about historical things and and stuff like that. This is the sixtieth I think it's a Sixtieth Reno Air Eras is and it's going to be the last one they announced the ah. 04:10.22 Paul Wow. 04:13.50 archpodnet Reno tahoe aviation authority. Yeah removed there doesn't want them there anymore because they want to expand and put more warehouses and stuff there and they can't do that with the racecourse taking up so much space. So they ah they're they're canceling it now the reno airraces association might find some other place to hold this event. But it's a pretty specialized custom thing and it's more likely not going to be in the reno or Nevada area because there's nowhere else that can really hold it out there so might move somewhere else entirely which means I won't be involved anymore which is kind of sad. So yeah, yeah. 04:44.81 Paul Oh yeah, those ah those air races I remember those I was a kid I mean I don't know when they started do you know. 04:49.17 archpodnet Yeah, sixty years ago yeah it was about sixty years ago yeah so yeah, exactly yeah I don't know if they've missed any years but I'm I think this is the sixtieth one coming up technically so 60 or or maybe a little more than that. But yeah. 04:53.90 Paul Yeah, that's even before I was a kid. 05:08.70 archpodnet It's it's been an institution worldwide that that people show up for and it's kind of sad to see it go but it's getting more and more dangerous I mean somebody died at the end of the races last year second the last race guy augured his jet right into the hillside and or into the ground and you know it's just um, yeah, it's. 05:20.13 Paul Um. 05:27.11 archpodnet It's one of those things but anyway well speaking of you know things in the past um or things that are going to be in the past we are going to talk about past tech on this show for other reasons related to the archeology podcast network I was actually going through um all of our. Old shows for every single show in the network I had to run through um, all of our old shows right? back from episode 1 and make some changes on the website and what you might notice. Actually if you ever go to our website and listen to shows what I had to change was the player. That's there. The thing that allows you to actually just play the episode right on the website or actually download it from the website and we moved our hosting service to Zencastr. So the old megaphone player from all hosting service. No longer worked and I had to remove that from about 2500 shows and then um. Add the news Zencaster player to all the shows and along the way took a look at some stuff and I thought it would be fun to do an episode using just the first 50 episodes of Archaeotech that's where we stopped so we're not singling these companies out. This is literally any company or app or thing that was the major focus. Of the of the episode from the first 50 episodes of archeotech now if some of you go back and listen to these because we do have links to all this stuff in the show notes some of these um were with my but well some of the really early ones possibly even the first one we talk about here I don't think so though I think that's when I took over. 06:55.71 archpodnet The first few episodes had different hosts and then they kind of bailed on it and then I took over for a little while and I had a host named Chris Sims and I had him for a while and then he left and then the show kind of languished for I don't know probably a year without any episodes. Ah before I started doing just a handful of things and then Paul came on board and you've been on board for. 07:01.56 Paul Is it. 07:14.92 archpodnet It's got to be at least 150 episodes I don't know it's been a while though. 07:16.44 Paul Yeah, and I was looking back I can't recall when I started I think it was in the sixty s or eighty s somewhere in that range So all of these ones predate me but a lot of these people have have been on multiple times So as we discuss I was on interviews with a few of them. 07:23.96 archpodnet Yeah. 07:31.80 archpodnet Um, yeah. 07:35.89 Paul Later on because you know quite a few of them have ongoing projects and they were active and still are in many cases, very active and I keep going but you know before we go any further Chris though I do want to point out this is episode one Ninety Nine don't people normally do things like this on. The the anniversary or milestone episodes like 200 maybe instead of one ninety nine it's going on here. 07:58.66 archpodnet You know you know I have been so bad in the whole history of the archeology podcast network about like celebrating episode number milestones I really want to do stuff you know like an episode 200 do ah this would be a good episode 200 you're totally right. 08:05.83 Paul That after ah. 08:15.16 archpodnet Instead we're going to talk about. Um you know, basically dogs and um, you know Sn ah person person sniffing dogs cadaver dogs and things like that ah were bringing on. Ah Paul Martin who was mentioned I believe in 1 of our past episodes where we were talking about a serm project down um in the south where they were looking for some stuff some bridge foundations and they and they actually thought they had a burials there and they and they brought in these cadaver dogs and Paul Martin was one of the ones that was brought in to to manage that so we're going to talk to him directly on the show. But you know I would like to do some of this other stuff we've we've got some big changes coming with the apn and it might allow us to staff up a little bit within the next year or 2 and give us a little more freedom to be able to you know, have the time to really put some of these episodes together because. 08:57.38 Paul Um, who are. 09:05.70 archpodnet I'll tell you what it is a lot of work because you have to figure out what you're going to put in like a compilation episode what you're going to talk about and if you're pulling any clips you got to go back and find those and cut them and put them in the new one. It's just ah, it isn't um, a mountain of work. So yeah I want to do it but we're going to have to wait. Okay. So we're just going to talk about some of these for the bulk of the episode and let's get into it again. We're not picking on any of these this is literally just any website software or service that we talked about in the first 50 episodes. Everything else is probably news articles or papers or um, you know journal articles or something like that. So the first one. Is open context and some people may have heard of open context I mean it started. Ah I think it started well before we started talking about it on ah this episode which was episode 6 of the archeitech podcast and this episode actually dates from February Ninth Two thousand and fifteen that's when we interviewed Eric Kanza of openconex one of the founders him and his wife. Um and a few other people were the founders of this and they're still the people who are primarily running it. So what do you know about open context paul. 10:06.10 Paul Visit. 10:12.10 Paul You know I yeah I remember finding out about it back probably when I was writing my dissertation or maybe shortly after so that would have been oh well. My dissertation was 2008 so you know it's been a long time fifteen plus years now. 10:29.28 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 10:31.68 Paul So and the consoles I know are very active in a lot of different things related to archaeological data as they should be because they are legitimately experts in it. Um, and you know their regular articles by them still come out. Um, open context I. 10:36.14 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 10:49.48 Paul Trying to recall why I was looking at it and I think that it was because I was very curious and and still am as you well know you know in ah in how 1 manages you know the reams of data that we get from archaeological projects and they were you know and again still are at the forefront of um. 11:07.71 archpodnet So. 11:08.93 Paul Of managing and implementing systems for doing so right? and so we had that and then there's also and I'm trying to remember what the relationship between open context and tdar. 11:15.62 archpodnet Right. 11:23.34 Paul Because we also had Chris Nicholson from tdar and I know that these 2 projects are related um and they are both active. You know and still going strong and Chris Nicholson I interact with occasionally or did I think went out. 11:36.35 archpodnet Red. 11:42.52 Paul So on Twitter before the ah the elon muskification of it all? Ah, but how about you why how did you end up reaching out to them for that. 11:50.21 archpodnet Ah, right? yeah you know I think I met Eric ah at a conference because he knew Michael Ashley who I knew at the time. Yeah, and we'll talk about codifying a little bit but. 11:59.24 Paul That makes sense. Yes. 12:07.40 archpodnet I'm pretty sure. Yeah I either talked to him at a conference or something like that. It was an essay or something like that and just started talking and and and ended up getting him on for an interview so that's I remember Eric I'm sorry yeah Eric Kanza he also did a poster one time and it was a late night poster session on like a Thursday or I think it was a Friday night actually it was a late night it was getting over like ten o'clock at night and I I want to say this was the was this the Hawaii essays I can't remember which one it was but it was um. 12:38.25 archpodnet Late at night and and a bunch of us were standing there talking to him and and actually just kind of talking to each other and we were getting kicked out of the poster room because they were closing it up and everybody else had pretty much left but we're all just sitting there chatting about tech and and stuff like that and his poster was still sitting on the um on the poster wall on like the corkboard or whatever that they brought rollland to hang the posters on. 12:46.53 Paul Season. 12:58.60 archpodnet And he just like while talking pulled the pins out of his poster and it turns out it was a piece of cloth and he just like he just like bunched it up and stuffed it in his bag like his shoulder bag. Ah it still is like 1 of my primary memories of Eric and it was just like what and everybody was like what the hell is this. 13:07.30 Paul I Remember you talking about that. Ah. 13:16.87 archpodnet You don't have a big tube and no he had it printed on ah like high quality fabric and it's just genius. So anyway, um, yeah, and I ended up meet up with him at Berkeley I think too and had lunch with him when I was over there for whatever reason 1 time And yeah, he's just a really cool guy and that's where him and Sarah live um his wife is over in Berkeley at least they used to I don't know that was years ago. So but anyway yeah, this is really cool and you know I don't know if they're related to tdar but I do know they are related to Dina which is the digital index of north american archeology. 13:49.92 Paul That's it. Yeah, you know what? I think that I asked Chris Nicholson if what the relationship was and he said that they didn't do the exact same thing so that they were actually complimentary that they were friends that they you know. 13:51.97 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 14:04.76 Paul They they discuss things a lot but my first experience with open context I remember now I was looking online and I saw it and I found that one of the earliest things that was uploaded to it was data from the site of Petra in Jordan which I had worked on. So. 14:07.61 archpodnet Um, yeah. 14:20.16 archpodnet Um. 14:20.95 Paul So I had this early kind of unexpected connection with it. Yeah. 14:25.63 archpodnet Nice, nice yeah, when I was doing research for this episode I I played around on there a little bit. You can just like look at their map and start zooming in and Zoom all the way down and it's searchable too. But you can just kind of play around and zoom in and and look at stuff and again these are all um. Well like it says these are all typically open access type of things that you know you can know it doesn't tell you exactly where things are they scrub coordinates and they have a really big grid square that says it's somewhere here and it's and it's big enough that you're never going to find it so you know anything identifying they really take out but um. 14:47.93 Paul Is it. 14:53.59 Paul Yeah. 14:59.16 archpodnet But it is really cool that you know there's there's drawings and photographs and you know notes and and whatever people have submitted to this and they've got it in a really searchable database and 1 of the things they've done is they're really really concerned with getting the language right. You know, coming up with common terms for things and and making sure that that's consistent across the entire platform. They don't let just anybody upload data here. You send the data to them and they upload the data after they contextualize all your data in their system. Yeah, and that's incredibly important. So. 15:18.43 Paul Um. 15:24.41 Paul Yes. 15:31.18 Paul Yeah, and I just found the petra Great temple excavations on their site. So so I know that's still there and I haven't dug into the actual data they have here but I I see that the project is there. So my my faulty memory is maybe a little less faulty than I thought but. 15:32.77 archpodnet Makes it very usable. 15:37.43 archpodnet Nice. 15:49.21 archpodnet Nice, nice, all right? Well this next one might take a minute to discuss. So I think let's go ahead and take a break and we'll start that one on the other side back in a minute.