00:01.39 Doug But did you actually want me to mention episode 2 32 00:01.77 archpodnet Told you yeah I always say hey welcome back to the 0 mark podcast episode two thirty two yeah be professional doug let's do this. 00:09.77 Doug Ah, okay I got it. 00:11.83 Heather Um. No pressure. 00:17.76 Doug It's now much just laughter. It's gonna be. It's gonna be not professional at all I think we should just jump into it Chris you I think you should leave this entire part into in the podcast welcome back to episode 2 32 the cerm park podcast. 00:25.28 archpodnet No. 00:35.38 Doug Um, Heather was bringing up exactly the sort of points I was thinking of yeah how we're going to change as a profession um with sort of health and safety and and some of the things that to be honest, we probably should have been doing before covid because I was just thinking like you know first year of covid. 00:48.17 archpodnet Yeah. 00:53.18 Doug Was the first time I didn't get like a cold or a flu or anything in I don't know maybe my entire life like it was incredible. Of course like I have a small child and then she went to nursery and now like you know I'm gonna be sick for the next like decade plus. 01:11.43 archpodnet Yeah. 01:13.38 Doug Nonstop every single thing multiple times but um I'm pretty sure I mean like just thinking off of like I wonder if anyone's done the calculations of like the billion saved in that first year from people just not calling in sick to work. Um or also probably just better. 01:22.64 archpodnet So. 01:32.32 Doug Productivity for the people who did call in sick because you know some places you work and there's there's that pressure to come in even if you know if it's if you're not dying. You should suck it up and there's that sort of macho thing that um Heather was mentioning but it includes like you know, taking time off. Work for sick and of course um, the us has really poor um rules and regulations regarding um or laws regarding tick and sick pay and stuff like that. So. It's even worse there. Um, but it's it's just one of those things where I'm just thinking. 02:05.80 archpodnet Well. 02:10.96 Doug You know we're probably going to be a lot. You know people hopefully I'm hoping it's not going to be like 5 years from now and everyone's like oh yeah, we we did that a while ago we're no longer like you know using hand sanitizer and all this stuff but I do feel like it's probably going to make a lot of. 02:22.87 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 02:30.10 Doug A lot of companies a lot cruise a little bit more productive just because you're not going to have as many people hopefully getting sick. But then I guess the other thing that I know I guess the question for you guys is how you see next or covid coming in next winter. So like we just went through a pretty. Pretty big spike I know the us is in the middle of the amomiccon or homminniron how you're supposed to pronounce it um spike and so that that's somewhat affected like archeology in the Uk where ah, a lot of you know for about a month there. It was a bit tough like you know. 02:50.78 archpodnet O my crime. 03:05.20 Doug A lot of people were getting sick so that you know, reduced staff and it was It was already tough finding staff that that really put a lot of pressure on companies. Um, it's easy now. Ah, but you know essentially England has just said there are not going to be anymore. Um. 03:15.78 archpodnet Oh. 03:24.29 Doug Requirements of restriction. So come again next year it'll be interesting to see like I know for you guys? Maybe heather your company is thinking about it. Are you guys just playing on like you know, losing a crew for like a week or two each year because you know covid's going to hit. And's going to take people out because ah, um, the big thing in the u k is you know, everything's a lot safer but the big crunch is um, transportation. So at the moment. Um a lot of transportation is like single vehicle use which is a lot hard doing the Uk where fewer people have their own vehicles. Um, and you know you're a lot more urban sites so a lot of people rely on public transportation. Um, and you know if you're basically if we go back to almost no legal restrictions. There's going to be a lot of pressure on budgets to not. Include as many vehicles. Um and with fewer vehicles I mean basically if you're sticking in your entire crew and ah and and a truck or something and 1 person has covid. That means everyone has covid. So how do you guys? picture things happening not quite this coming summer but maybe next year or the in the future. 04:37.82 archpodnet Let her. 04:39.12 Doug Is this just going to be ah, a part of doing business. We expect like every year to lose a crew to covid at some point. 04:44.78 archpodnet Well, let's let's tackle some of the stuff you just brought up because you had a lot of things in there and and then we'll ah Heather answer in for her company. But I I wanted to bring something back to 1 of the original things you said Doug you know. Talking about not having a cold or something like that like a regular cold in the first year of covid that's something just you hear you heard a lot of the covid naysayers out there going? Oh it's all covered now remember when we used to talk about the common flu and how many people have that and what's going on. Why do we do that anymore. It's all covered because nobody actually had it. It was all covered. Like we were better at isolating wearing masks staying indoors not shaking hands doing all those stupid things that actually just transmit disease on a daily basis and that's that's one comment there and then another thing that you addressed with sick time I think there's a there's a big downside to. The embracing of remote work I mean I've been remote working for a decade now and I love it and and I think everybody should investigate that for their positions. However, we got to be careful because. You know, like you said Doug sometimes when people were sick before they felt obligated to go into work because we do have pretty horrible sick time practices here in this country and we just expect people to come to work and now people are pretty aware that hey if I'm sick I probably shouldn't be around other people. But also if they're already working from home. What are the chances that unless they're just deathly ill they're actually going to take a sick day while working at home instead. They're probably just going to put in some hours. Do some stuff not take care of themselves and feel obligated to work because they are at home and they they haven't really factored in or the company's not teaching them how to do that proper work life balance. That's something I think people need to. People need to figure out and I think honestly companies need to tell people hey listen you know, almost almost penalize them or give them bonuses for not responding to emails after five p M you know something like that because everything's time Stampmped Heather you don't get out your salary. So. 06:37.22 Heather Oh boy, Oh like it is ah yeah, well, that's even more abusive actually where you yeah and you think about it. Yeah. 06:38.65 Andrew Kinkella Ah, it. 06:45.23 archpodnet Um, but that work life balance I know I'm just kidding I'm just kidding but it but it goes to salaried people too right? like you're expected to put in 60 hours a week and that's that's an age-old problem. But now with covid more people have been brought into that right more people that weren't traditionally. 06:54.38 Heather Yeah, well it it it it I would say more more it it applies more to salary. The reason being is that companies are always concerned about people going into overtime. 07:02.98 archpodnet In that situation. 07:07.40 archpodnet E. 07:13.97 Heather So unless a come you know? and ah, there's some kind of project that can cover over time. You're always conscious of keeping people within those 8 hours so I think that as needed an hourly I would say I don't think this is any big you know news or anything. But. 07:21.90 archpodnet Um, yeah. 07:32.20 Heather Anybody's considering I would definitely if you have a if if anybody ever gives you a choice and I've actually had people come to me and ask please I want to go on a salary I'm like no, you do not want to go on salary. Um, and so you know I do think that Um, as far as salary. 07:42.28 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 07:51.57 Heather Or as as far as people having a ah work life balance that is so true. Um I will say like my so the people I work with are constantly on me. The problem is is that the work doesn't go away like. 07:57.66 archpodnet My. 08:06.38 archpodnet Yeah. 08:08.46 Heather Yeah I'm working on the weekends I'm literally getting up at 5 in the morning and I'm working I'm not kidding till nine o'clock at night we're so busy. There's no way it's going to get done if I don't do that. There's such a dearth of of qualified people at a certain level that we just don't have enough people to get everything done. 08:13.20 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 08:28.50 Heather There's a point where I think 1 thing that companies can do is start saying no and I I know like that's like antithetical to making money. But there's only so much you can do I mean sometimes I you know I think across the board we're going to see in the next you know. 08:32.90 archpodnet Um, yeah, it's hard. Ah yeah. 08:45.91 Heather 105 years even down the road that there's going to there would have been mistakes um, made and things are are going to be litigated and and there's going to be challenges specifically with any kind of a regulatory um product that. 08:59.29 archpodnet Um. 09:01.84 Heather You know mistakes were made because people are just going too quickly and you couldn't have that QAQc that that you should have and um, having another set of eyes on it to make sure that you have the right approach because you're writing after 15 hours and you're going crossside and so I do think you know the company I work for is there. They mean well they're very good at we have ah somebody who's specifically all they do is wellness for the company they create. Um, they create videos. There's something for every single day if not twice. 09:27.79 archpodnet Yeah. 09:37.69 Heather Where there's some kind of meditation or yoga at home or and these are all things that started because of covered because they're realizing people were really kind of like sequestered in their house and they weren't taking care of themselves and so I think that's a really good. 09:43.15 archpodnet Yeah. 09:53.84 Heather Ah, invention or something that's happened that people are focusing more on wellness. Um, and I always sign up for them and I never go to I wish I could but I have to look at it you know and it's just not the priority. Although it really should I know it should be. It should be a priority. 10:04.55 Andrew Kinkella You got to do it Heather You got to do it I I think that's such a great thing that you bring up to because that's another one sort of culturally in Crm where before this would be like I don't need no wellness you know, but. 10:05.45 archpodnet Yeah. 10:19.82 Andrew Kinkella Now it's like it's such a thing and it's so healthy to do that wellness and mindfulness kind of stuff even for like 20 minutes a day. It's huge. So I think that's awesome that your company does that. 10:21.86 Heather Healthy, yeah, yeah stuff for like 20 minutes a day. Yes, yeah, it it is it is one of those things that people ignore we've always ignored and you know when you start working, you're ah you know that many hours a day. You're not productive. 10:27.30 archpodnet Um, death. 10:39.26 Andrew Kinkella E. 10:41.34 Heather You know if if people were we used to have talk before covid where people were saying okay, let's focus on having people were talking about 5 hour days remember where they were saying. Let's just have people work 5 hour days and that way they can be really focused and they're going to be a lot more attentive to things and then they have more downtime which makes them. 10:47.26 Andrew Kinkella Um, pray. 10:59.95 Heather Much more effective when they are working and you know with all the grants with all the stuff. That's some things that people don't realize especially people that aren't in a management position. There's so much money being pumped into the economy right now with housing some of it has to do with covered. Some of it has to do with the new administration that there's so much money out there that clients agencies agencies meaning cities counties federal agencies that money that they're trying to get but they have to have. Documents in order to do that and that brings us in as far as compliance or regulatory and and and technical reports that the the deadlines are insane. They're insane on top of having all the delays with in California with record searches being delayed months and months and. 11:34.50 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 11:41.78 Andrew Kinkella Um. 11:42.36 archpodnet E. 11:52.83 Heather It's yeah so it makes it to it makes it difficult to work in a bounced manner when you have all these you know pressures right? I know like in the field. 11:59.72 Andrew Kinkella Right? right? I I do know like sort of in the in the field school world and sort of the academic world. There's there's ah, there's a lot of similarities to everything you've been saying in terms of how you're running your cruise I mean I've basically been taking notes I thought in the last segment. The Multicolor thing was genius. 11:59.85 archpodnet Um, yeah. 12:17.96 Heather Like Muler bank was g so I get. 12:19.62 Andrew Kinkella Um, so I notice you know, ah a lot of these things too like with the with the money and for Covid like I ordered a bunch of tools just like you did um because there was money coming in to the school. You know to fight Covid so you could order tools with the money. 12:29.84 Heather Because your money coming in school. You know to fight code at like an order tools. Yeah yeah, you know for to cover. 12:36.60 Andrew Kinkella For Covid you know so everyone would have their own toolkit the exact same thing I was really surprised just listening to you How similar it is in sort of an academic field school ah to the to the things that you're going through. It's like the same you know the same ah trials and slings and arrows that kind of stuff. 12:50.42 Heather Well I come from the Andrew can kell a pedigree. So any genius I have any genius I have I can't take credit for honestly. But. 12:50.72 archpodnet Yeah. 12:53.98 Andrew Kinkella You know me too. 13:00.24 Andrew Kinkella Ah I know I know I give full credit to myself. 13:07.21 archpodnet Ah, Doug. 13:08.54 Doug Yeah, Andrew are you planning? Are you planning to do like field schools this coming or you know like ah, not necessarily even a field school maybe a field class or a methods class in this coming year for or anything like that. 13:22.48 Andrew Kinkella Yeah I've been doing it. Ah so every Saturday so I have a Saturday class so in the fall we did the excavation and right now yesterday you know we do the field survey. So I really have my ear to the ground in terms of like covered measures for you know archeology and for outside and keep people safe. And so I'm I'm doing these things real time and I'm I'm sure as heather and others have experienced. It's ah it's a moving goalpost. You know where like for a while it was so focused on keeping tools clean and don't touching it. You know anything. But then as we learn more It's like okay you want to first and foremost focus focus on the um, the air. The you know the air aspect of of wearing a mask at all times you know, sort of first and foremost and so what we do there's all kinds of little bits and bobs. But but the big one is you know wearing a mask at all times even when you're out there like in field survey and I know it looks silly and it's probably um. In a way if you're outside and the wind's blowing it almost you know too much but that's okay, you know like the students who survive they're fine and so we just put our mask on we do our thing and and it's and it's cool and even for the um excavation class which we did last semester as as we were talking about in the last segment. It's It's cool to wear a mask because actually you know keeps all the dust out of your lungs. So I felt that wearing a mask was was ah fine. You know in that situation. 14:49.00 Doug Are you guys doing any sort of ah or plan to do with your field school ah non Cross-g group working So a sense like um, a lot of the a lot of companies in the Uk s essentially basically they created teams. 15:03.14 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 15:07.38 Doug And teams were not meant to mix so that like essentially almost siloing your entire workforce so that if if 1 silo went down. It wouldn't take down the entire your entire team your entire company. Whatever. 15:12.10 Andrew Kinkella Um, yes. 15:22.31 Andrew Kinkella Yes, yeah, silos are kind of the name of the game I just kind of did that because it seemed like the smart thing to do so it's silos everywhere. It's like you don't carpool. But if you do it's just with your group and that worked really easily with the excavation team because let's say we had 4 units open. 15:24.29 Doug Um, that was one of the things that was implemented over here. Okay. 15:42.28 Andrew Kinkella Um, and let's say there's 4 people on each unit. So each of those 4 people like that's their group. You know oh you're in group a you know and then and so I did much less moving around of students. Ah than I did in the past like they just stayed with their little pocket. 15:46.83 archpodnet Um, my. 15:57.98 archpodnet Um, no. 15:58.75 Andrew Kinkella You know? and so and I thought that worked well too because that was my thinking especially early on it's like okay man if someone gets it at least? Okay, maybe it's just these 4 over here you know and and with the carpool things too. That's a huge thing. 16:07.28 archpodnet Right. 16:10.11 Doug And did you guys do any one-way systems and this is open to everyone that was one of the things they did basically in the offices was especially for you know lab work and stuff like that was essentially you know work for home where you could, but you can't really take you know. 16:28.12 Andrew Kinkella The. 16:29.11 Doug Postx a lot of it I mean there are people who are specialists who you send off to have it looked at but you know a lot of the big sort of processing finds and things like that had to sort of be done in the lab and so they basically create a bunch of 1 ne-way systems throughout most of the companies in the uk during. During the height of covid some are you know we're slowly relaxing some of the stuff that's happened it used to be you. You had to have a two meter rule now it's down to about a one meter crazy enough archeology. So we just had a big health and safety meeting for fame federation of archaeological managers and employers. 16:56.97 Andrew Kinkella Okay. 17:07.99 Doug And basically all the archaeological employers are keeping processes or procedures on that the government has said are no longer needed. So we're we're I know we're weeks and weeks if not months behind what the official guidance is coming out of out of government. Ah, just to keep the safety levels up but did you guys end up doing any of that 1 ne-way system stuff and. 17:30.48 Andrew Kinkella Ah, not exactly but ah again, our lab class doesn't start until next semester and I've already been thinking about this but in general since we live in California. I I do a much larger piece just outside like outside is your friend you know so I I'll have a group of students working outside at all times which keeps way fewer people inside in the room you know and it's way more spaced out. So there's plenty of things even in the lab to do outside like wet screening and this kind of stuff so I'll have it. 17:45.70 Heather You have. 18:00.99 Andrew Kinkella There's There's always it's much more of an outside component since this. 18:03.30 Heather Yeah, and and for for us. Um, you know the remote it used to be that remote really wasn't looked at fondly because you know archeologists are already out of the out of the office quite a bit at the time and so being able to have some kind of connection. 18:16.62 Andrew Kinkella Um. 18:21.15 Heather With the Pms that they're working with or you know the other um archeologists just always being able to kind of come back to center and see each other in office was was definitely a focus and that was something it was definitely ah more of a pressure. Um now. Um, you know there's just with the in. Influx of um, you know all these technical are all these electronic or whatever meetings that you can have Zoom and go to meeting and all these others. Um, yeah, it makes it easier for us to connect. 18:46.97 archpodnet Yes. 18:54.99 Heather Definitely though and I think this would be really good for a show I definitely would like to look at the emotional um the emotional effects of Covid and how people unfortunately are just can just be rotten to each other and even though they see each other on a screen. People are more rotten to each other when they're not in each other's presence and I think that that is something we need to start thinking about because I think that's almost like the next pandemic Pandemic is dealing with a holes I'll speak for myself. 19:23.40 archpodnet I Well I think I think dealing with I think dealing with aholes. Well hey guys dealing with aholes is the new title of this episode and on that note. 19:26.00 Doug Next next pandemic. Ah I'm pretty sure I've been living through that for like decades now. Yeah. 19:38.81 Heather Um. 19:40.89 archpodnet Let's take a break and go to segment three back in a minute.