00:00.91 archpodnet Um, welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is Heather in California. 00:07.85 Heather Hi everyone. 00:09.72 archpodnet And Andrew in other California. 00:14.63 Andrew Kinkella Hey guys, how's it going. 00:14.95 Heather Hey guys go. 00:17.15 archpodnet All right? Well we have got an interesting show today and as you guys may have picked up on. We have been rotating around who has the topics for the week unless we have something pressing to talk about but we've been rotating around and this week it's Andrew's turn so Andrew I'm going to throw it over to you to introduce our topic. And our guest. 00:38.86 Andrew Kinkella Okay, so I thought for this week we could talk about night monitoring and it's something that I was just sort of thinking about a couple weeks ago I was kind of going over my crm experiences and thinking about oh what was a little bit different than the norm. And I was like oh yeah, the night monitoring thing that was kind of weird and at around that time I saw a post by one of my students. My student Neil and he had posted about some of his experiences night monitoring. So I was like wow this is ah a really great time for me to. Bring a student of mine onto the show and I thought that you know all of us could just talk about our experiences in night monitoring. Um, and maybe some tips and tricks for how to night monitor better what to do because in a lot of ways. It is a very specific situation. You know where you're just you're really kind of cut off by yourself sitting out there at 2 in the morning and so yeah, if we can just kind of touch on that topic expand on it have a little fun with it I thought that it would be great so at at first I would like to intro my student. Ah. Neil Thompson ah Neil how's it going 01:54.56 neil thompsett Hello everyone thank you for having me on the show and yeah night yeah thank you thank you and yeah the night shifts no matter where it is you I mean I know we're speaking about crm but just in general is is always is always a dirge. It's always a. 01:57.47 archpodnet Thanks Neil. 02:14.49 neil thompsett Ah, issue of like just a test of the faith test of your will just understanding how much you want to go through with it and ah my experience in it was I was only in it for about three months and I remember everyone was making sure that I was okay with it and everyone's very gracious to make sure that I wasn't. Feeling stressed out or unvalued for doing this position but I wanted to give it a try I mean ah it it um the hours didn't seem too bad at first because it was I was only doing it was technically split shift but it still was pretty much night shift and. What I mean by that is the schedule that that was given to me was between seven p M to 2 to 3 p m at 2 to 3 a m so it's still not technically night shift because night shift officially begins 3 to 4 am m all the way to 11 or 12 in the um in the in the morning that's sorry in the afternoon. So the the idea of all these rotational shifts is that you have to have 3 or 4 crews shift crews going on, especially if you're on a tight deadline. Yeah and ah and basically the the shift I was on. 03:14.32 archpodnet Wow. 03:23.29 archpodnet In here. 03:29.94 neil thompsett What was interesting was at least the the the best part about it was that you were able to at least get some get get dinner in before most of the shift would begin whereas ah lunch lunch for a night shift is quite difficult. You're pretty much alone on your own and you pretty much should bring your own stuff. 03:36.66 Andrew Kinkella Fair. 03:48.20 neil thompsett Ah, 1 thing that was different from it is that generally in my experience I've I've always had to number 1 be able to communicate with the operators communicate with superintendents and foremans and dig cruise in general just so I can just get a consistency of what the project was even though you would have the printout and know exactly what you're supposed to do. It's just to confirm since everything changes all the time and yeah, ah one of the things I noticed going in specifically with Crm. Um, is that you're really alone and it's just you and the dig crew and there will be and and basically just humongous work lights. 04:20.41 archpodnet My. 04:25.79 neil thompsett Shining and random silence for a long time and then a cluster of cars and then nothing again right? and and and there's always this zigzag of how how do you maneuver this and what's going on and then ah just the worries of the accidents coming because there's there's. 04:30.85 Andrew Kinkella Ah. 04:43.90 neil thompsett You know people are getting tired. No one really can see what you know it's it can get very dangerous if you're if you're not um, prepared for it. but um but yeah like particularly where what I was working on was primarily just they were. They're eventually tunneling a trench for for utility pipes. And they were going out a depth between ah 10 to twenty feet and would just descend further and further and further and then ah the the crews would be using interesting techniques I've never even seen before like things that I only thought of only occurred in world war one where they're using wood planks to hold everything up and thinking this is this is a street like. 05:15.10 archpodnet Choose. 05:21.00 neil thompsett Like I thought we hadoring boxes. But no, you know it's everyone with a shovel and flute down there just shoveling and putting in trenches and waiting for the jerryries Apparently so but anyways I digress I'm saying too much I'm probably gonna get fired now. But whatever that the truth must hold the truth. 05:26.18 archpodnet Um, one. 05:33.10 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, ah, very very good. You know there's there's so much that you that you touched on there Neil I I know you you you sort of alluded to well you know in cm it's like this I was wondering if you just take a moment and talk about. 05:39.38 neil thompsett Yeah out there. 05:52.80 Andrew Kinkella How you got into this what you did before you know a little bit about about Neil. Yeah. 05:55.22 neil thompsett Oh yeah, okay I can do that? Um, so I'm ah I'm I'm ah basically ah, um, my my original career was actually in film and visual effects. So I had to spent the last ten years of my life doing. Ah, visual effects stuff so that so for people who don't know what that is. That's kind of like digitally removing people. People's age age crows feet on their faces or like explosions of cars and things or making sure Spiderman's hand was the right color of red things like that and yeah I had my spartan death ah star wars seven I was. 06:25.42 archpodnet So nice. 06:32.27 neil thompsett Time I finally kind of had a mental breakdown to set I I don't want to do this and my war cry for the last ten years was give me a reason to quit you know, give me a reason to go back to grad school and then suddenly I burned out and I went well crap now I gotta go back to grad school. You know. So I decided to go in for for anthropology because I had always been fascinated with it and I was always worried I wasn't good enough to do it. But then when I when I signed up and got in and and realized I could you know I don't have to start from the beginning I could actually do a post baccalaureate which is basically a sped up. Ah, bachelor's program you moving right into the but um to the masters I was like oh this is amazing. Let me do it so it took me about roughly 4 years to get my masters and then ah yeah I you know I did try spat before when I was in grad school with ah one Crm firm and. 07:06.50 Andrew Kinkella Right. 07:20.13 Heather I. 07:24.00 neil thompsett I think I only had 1 job over the three months I was hired there and sorry I'm laughing about it because I had a funny experience in that one I was really nervous since I you know I had always had that imposter syndrome that I'm not supposed to be here and I'm not supposed to be here. I mean like the the interview I had was literally a faceless corporation because no one was in the office. Everyone was on a telecom and ah I guess that's quite normal, especially in this day and age. But this was Preco. So anyways, I went I remember going to this one particular site thinking oh man I'm late I'm going to go in and then everyone kept giving me this look if you're not supposed to be here. 07:42.44 archpodnet Um. 07:57.55 neil thompsett And then my mind was thinking. Oh oh you construction workers I know how this goes and I was like no I know the ground has already been dug. But it's probably on the side. It probably is something that hasn't been touched. That's why my company sent me here then sure as heck I get a phone call. And like yeah, you're not supposed to be there. We we changed schedule last night and I was like oh well this is awkward and and I was like look at those pipes those are clay and they're like yeah we made them yesterday. Oh hard all right? Well I'm gonna go then and then I was never called back. Ah. 08:17.43 Andrew Kinkella Ah. 08:18.24 Heather So typical. 08:23.20 archpodnet I meant yesterday. 08:26.26 Heather Ah. 08:30.25 Andrew Kinkella Ah. 08:33.53 neil thompsett Ah, but um, after that experience after covid all that you know, ah 1 particular company took a chance with me because they saw I had a master's and I had good rapport with them. So so basically they they gave they've been basically helping me out with this one particular project. 08:35.28 Heather Me. 08:51.48 neil thompsett Have a great mentoring system and that's where that's how I got in now and then yeah like um, ah Dr Kinkello or Andrew however, you want to be called now now I'm doctor professor genius costco member Andrew prinkela. 08:59.78 Andrew Kinkella Ah, please if it Dr Professor Genius Andrew can kella there. You go blockbuster cup holder. Yeah yeah, yeah, ah. 09:07.90 Heather A bit. 09:07.91 archpodnet Wait not executive, not executive Costco member. Well I guess whatever that's true. That's true. 09:11.67 neil thompsett What's it oh sorry, that's an extra 2 years friend 09:12.94 Heather Yes, a professor he is a professor after all, you can't afford the executive Costco membership. Ah. 09:19.15 Andrew Kinkella Um, ah, no dad. That's true. That's for rich people. 09:19.50 neil thompsett ah ah yeah the executive. So I apologize the executive. Ah, ah so so you know, ah you know thank you for letting me partake in the in your your field school that also helped a lot in and making me understand just the process and and how it all comes together. Ah. However, in my experience then diving in is a completely different ballgame I was definitely more ready and you know I was supposed to be there. There? Yeah yeah, and and the night and the night shift stuff was interesting because the area that we're working on particularly is is more historical. 09:47.61 Andrew Kinkella Congratulations. 09:53.10 Andrew Kinkella Right. 09:56.70 neil thompsett And there are just so many different levels of of historical artifacts and potential things that could be found going all the way back basically to pre-contact time all the way forward to like 195 and and ah the the other parts. It's just interesting because like a lot of a lot of academia. No offense. 10:01.49 Heather Um. 10:07.59 archpodnet M. 10:09.68 Andrew Kinkella Yep. 10:16.70 neil thompsett We we focus on lithicx and paleo a lot we focus on on pre-contact. It's it's almost like you know, like 1 of the things was can you tell me if the storm drain was made by Henry Hamlin in 1911 and I'm like ah yeah, yeah, yes, it is where we where I have to yeah it it definitely is I checks out. 10:32.47 Andrew Kinkella It. 10:36.50 neil thompsett Ah, he he he was a big guy there. So don't worry I'm not yeah yeah. 10:37.10 Andrew Kinkella Right now. Yeah, you know? and again you, you've brought up so much stuff that that's also another sort of side topic. The importance of knowing historic Archeology I find that with a lot of people in Archeology. You know there's kind of a dearth of um historic archeology abilities talk about something. They. Do not teach much in in college I would I personally was lucky enough to learn quite a bit about that. But I took history Classes. You know about that kind of stuff specifically. But I know how tough that can be. 10:58.34 Heather I college I like the first like like. 11:06.50 archpodnet E. 11:07.39 Heather I think it definitely depends on the professors that are at your at your school. You know, obviously there are some we had 1 at where I went and he was primarily historics and so. 11:11.99 Andrew Kinkella Um. 11:21.55 Heather But other than that I mean if you don't have that you're you're really not going to get exposure to historic archeology. Unfortunately um Neil where did you go to school for your accelerated program. 11:24.36 Andrew Kinkella He. 11:29.32 neil thompsett Ah, for my master's ah my it was my accelerator program I went to Cal State northridge. 11:40.40 archpodnet Okay. 11:42.46 Heather They're doing a cal they're doing accelerator program there. 11:43.51 neil thompsett Ah, they're doing a post baccalauate for those who have a bachelor's degree that is not in yeah so anyone? yeah. 11:47.30 Heather Already. Okay, okay, that was the the reason I was asking because I know you Cla has a has a accelerated program where you get your bachelors and your master's at the same time I'm not a fan personally of that but that that's not what this podcast is about but. Since you already had a bachelor's and then I I understand that I didn't know I went to seeson that's where I graduated from. So yep, um, ah, Helene Ruja was my advisor. Yeah yeah, yeah, so cool. All right? yeah. 12:09.89 neil thompsett Oh okay, Okay, yeah, go Maddors. Oh oh,, That's awesome. Yeah yeah, my mine was snow. 12:22.72 Andrew Kinkella Yeah I've I've I've seen a ah several people do that that sort of accelerated thing where they come in with a bachelor's you know from some somewhere else and they go to Csun and they kind of hook them up with you know, let's yeah. 12:25.66 Heather I. 12:32.99 Heather yeah I get that yeah I'm not I just the the starting from scratch where you've never even been to college before and then accelerated getting it bachelors and a masters in 4 years I'm not in parts for that at all. Um. 12:40.85 archpodnet I. 12:44.60 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah, I'm not a fan I'm not a fan. No of that that type of thing now. 12:44.97 neil thompsett Yeah. 12:51.24 Heather So I'm you know I'm curious. Um, what what kind of preparation did the company give you prior to to going into the night monitoring yeah 13:00.60 archpodnet A yeah. 13:02.34 neil thompsett Oh ah, Well first off it was basically talking about the ppes which is your protective gear making sure that my my helmet and my boat boots and everything were up to code because there are different types that call for different situations. There was also a lot of making sure that I had the right. Um, vest on whether it be a long sleeve vest with bigger brighter reflectors or just a regular red and reflector type vest ah mainly the idea was that if you're walking around the road you need a specific type of Reflector. So that cars can see you or if you're just right there in the tunnels with the with the boys in the trenches. You know, then you're fine. 13:33.35 Heather Right. 13:40.95 neil thompsett Ah, and and the thing is that depending on how deep you're going to be going ah basically general rule of thumb is once you've reached 8 to ten feet you cannot be standing over the edge to watch. You actually have to ah stay forty six feet behind a rail that is set up to watch it and ah one of the things I found interesting was that after a certain point. 13:52.96 Heather From how. 14:00.71 neil thompsett Ah, the old techniques of a a stop and throwing a a rock and hopefully it hits the area. You want them to stop it stops working and I I basically had to get myself a laser pointer just so I could get the art just to point out at potential artifacts a lot faster and um. Yeah, a lot of them also ask for harnesses but that's a special type of training. It's actually more likely that you will be asked to stand six four to six feet behind the rail when that is going on. Ah, and yeah I mean after a certain point I think I was I was basically just becoming a madman I even I even got myself like a old old school old school. Ah. 14:28.10 Heather Right. 14:40.30 neil thompsett Periscope You know one of those like old old trench periscopes that people had just just so I could look over the rail without actually being in trouble or written up by the safety inspectors which actually yeah. 14:42.84 Heather And I. 14:49.47 archpodnet You were you were just going for the the image in the first Indiana Jones movie where he's up on top of the thing and there's the silhouette is the sun's going down. That's really all you were trying to plan for I'm assuming right? Just this. 14:55.42 Heather Um, the. 15:03.42 neil thompsett No I I just happened to have have a whip with me when that was that no yeah, you just just coincidence. It's coincident that and and I was like oh wait. It's night shift I'm not gonna see any sound coming to tell me where everything was I should have studied this in four ninety five 15:08.70 Heather Oh. 15:09.38 archpodnet Coincidence Yeah coincidence. Yeah, you know. 15:10.30 Andrew Kinkella Oops where did this come from. 15:18.33 archpodnet Ah I know I know right? you know? Ah, just as we're closing out the segment I got to follow up to Heather's question because when she asked you how did they prepare you for this I was actually kind of thinking. How did they prepare you archeologically for this because as somebody who's. 15:19.43 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 15:32.64 Heather I had. 15:36.50 neil thompsett And. 15:36.15 archpodnet You know, relatively new in the field. Ah, we talk about this all the time on this podcast in the past ten years of doing this show. Monitors are always the green people in the field and it's like you know, um I'm just wondering how much. 15:46.59 Heather Um, yeah. 15:51.23 archpodnet Theoretical or contextual knowledge. Did they give you of what you could be finding and actually what to look for. Did they give you and this is not a slight on on the the company you're working for by any means whatsoever. It's kind of a consistent thing across the field. It seems like so just curious about that. 16:04.71 neil thompsett Ah, well 1 thing that was that's pretty good about my company is that else because we're we're working with a bunch of other other groups as well. It's not just one. This is like a joined effort. There. There is a general ah information that's given by the poc which means point of contact for those who are unsure. So we we do get a printout and we do get just ah, a very big brief like paragraph of like okay so be be on the lookout for this or be on the lookout for that you will be in this area. However, sometimes they won't give you a map and they won't give you too much detail. So you you basically the idea is you want to be their eyes and ears if we find something then it's on a need to know basis right? which I do have stories for later on but not not not this one and I have to make sure I'm not gonna get hunted so but but but but. 16:43.91 archpodnet You? okay. 16:44.91 Heather Hey. 16:54.81 neil thompsett The the preparation part is basically just knowing. Okay, it's a historic area. It is culturally Sensitive. You may run into this this and that and then that would that would be the end of it and then the idea is like you build up experience the longer you're in that site of Understanding. What's there because when you find things it's so it's almost like ah it's almost like a game. Once you find it and then you call it in and send pictures. That's when there's like oh okay, here's all the information you need here's everything you got This is what we were thinking about and you found it congratulations you know now now you can let now construction can break it because it's insignificant but keep going. Yeah it. 17:21.27 archpodnet Wow I. 17:24.29 Heather Sounds sounds like an escape room or something. 17:29.63 neil thompsett Yeah that's that's kind of how I feel but I mean I mean I guess night shift wise I'll tell you 1 thing that was funny was ah there was an area where we were working. You know, same thing utility pipe stuff and it was a little bit higher. It's only about six feet and I remember we came across a bunch of structures and I was thinking well it must be old structure and they're like no this is this is really old. This is like. Hundred hundred years at the least and I was like okay let me take a look and I'd be sending pictures to everyone and and everyone be like yeah yeah, it totally is it totally is but we don't quite know what it is yet. So just just hold off hold off and then what blew my mind was after a whole week of us. You know, putting papers together and then finally getting back to me about it. Ah basically construction was still able to go through. 18:03.68 archpodnet Yes, yeah. 18:08.22 neil thompsett Because they were only like parallel to the wall not necessarily destroying it. Um, all of a sudden I noticed across the street.. There's a mirror painted of the actual building of that place and and and this whole little blurb written about it and I felt like such an idiot that here here I'm contacting my poc and everyone we're all. Desperately trying to get information and then suddenly I look Cross Street I should have been just staring at that the whole time that it it's right there because the moment the picture came in I was like oh man, it's the exact same picture. How How is this possible? Yeah, yeah, so I mean it's not as I fault on them I should have also been looking up as I go buts. 18:37.14 archpodnet She's nice. Nice. 18:44.71 neil thompsett It's also like how how do you look up in your car with your cell phone really quick or when you're in the the trench trying to figure that out. Yeah. 18:46.33 Heather Are. 18:48.24 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 18:51.13 Andrew Kinkella Neil you've learned nothing from my classes. Okay, that's what I've that's what I've learned. 18:52.85 Heather Oh. 18:55.94 archpodnet And oh all, right? Well with Andrew's realization that no one's been listening to him this whole time. He's been teaching. Let's go ahead and take it to our first break. 18:56.32 neil thompsett Ah, if only they were lithics If only I was looking at lithics. 19:12.62 archpodnet And we'll be back with ah more with Neil and Andrew and heather and all of us on the other side of the break back in a minute.