00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome members of the apn to the bonus segment for episode None of the cormarcheology podcast if you haven't listened to the regular show. Go ahead. Although you don't necessarily need to if you just want to listen to the bonus segment for some weird reason. It's ah it's all up to you because this is going to be. Just an extension of what we were talking about somewhat more related to journal publishing if we stick to that topic. But that's what we're doing again. Thanks for being members. We really appreciate it. It helps keep literally all this going. You have no idea I mean we're recording this on a Sunday yesterday I spent 6 hours editing just so I could prep for the week and that's on a Saturday and I would love to have somebody do that professionally like pay somebody to do that. So the more members we get the more we can. We can give a job to somebody else and and I don't have to spend 6 hours on a Saturday because I you know have real work during the week just edit every day. So ah. Anyway, thanks for that. We appreciate it share this out and and get some other people in for us. Okay, so as we were talking about publishing in the regular show. We decided that we were going to talk a little bit more about journal article publishing something I have never actually done I have many many many blog posts. Many many many podcasts I have a book and I've literally never published in a journal I've just never needed to I guess. Ah, if that's the right word and I've never really had anything from like a crm perspective that I really wanted to publish in ah in a journal. Maybe my thesis from my master's program would've been a good topic but I just never got around to that either. So. I know I have literally no experience in this bill. 01:33.41 succinctbill And yeah, that's pretty interesting considering all this stuff. Yeah, well you know what? fortunately like Doug just mentioned in the podcast. There's plenty of plenty of journals you can still publish it I mean it's it's not going anywhere going away any anytime soon. 03:12.22 archpodnet Um, yeah. 03:29.76 archpodnet Indeed but but as we were talking about was you're talking about why? what's my incentive. Why would I publish in a journal right? right now. 02:10.87 succinctbill Yeah, so you know I don't Ah I guess I don't know what the incentive is for me like it was the same thing when I was doing cultural resources like what's the incentive to go to conferences right? They might pay you sometimes they didn't pay me and ah you know. Most of the time I presented on company work and stuff and a lot of times I wouldn't even get compensated but I just did it because I wanted to do it. So I guess when it comes to journal articles too like you know I always wanted to do it. They're my favorite way of publishing peer-reviewed stuff and so when I was doing crm. 04:23.12 archpodnet Movement. 02:21.50 Andrew Kinkella Ah, learn. 03:17.23 succinctbill But I published things in like you know the Sh newsletter or some of the other ah other venues like smaller publications I just did it because I wanted to but now I have to do it because they make me. There's like someone who's there that's kind of like. Is this guy publishing or not well. We don't think he deserves a job so that there's a different motivation for me now as an assistant professor to publish but I still prefer publishing in journal journal articles. Um I think that it's ah. 1 of the best ways to get your stuff out there even though there are paywalls and all the other stuff that the publishing industry is doing. You have a much higher likelihood of people citing and reading your work and using it in ah university classrooms and stuff if it's in a journal when I write blog posts. If those go on the syllabus I can only imagine what students are thinking or what you know other faculty are thinking if I write the same exact thing and get it published by Cambridge. Magically it somehow has more cloud and and people believe it more right? So there's that whole aspect like it just has. 04:22.24 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 06:50.88 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 05:23.43 succinctbill More credibility when it comes to a journal than it does on my blog or a self-published book. But the other thing is um, the the whole process is the same for ah the same for writing a book in a lot of ways except for it's much more condensed so rather than spending 2 or None or however, many years writing a book. You spend a few months or even a few weeks writing a journal article depending on how fast you get comments back and how fast you address those like this thing can be published in you know, three four months if you're really fast. Definitely a year. Um, and you can in the amount of time that it would take to write a book you can write you know four or five archaeology journal articles. 05:43.84 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, and if people are interested in ah publishing in the in the journal world. You want to find the right journal for the job too because there's small journals and there's big journals. You know you're for your none journal article. You're not going to go to American Antiquity um but I will say in my experience. The. The ride is about the same you know, meaning you like like Bill was saying you kind of you write this thing. It goes fairly fast because I don't want to brag but I've been in the cambridge archeological journal. Um. Ah, but ah, but the but the experience was just the same as you know as writing for a small journal so you know just just know that that it's kind of the same trip. No matter big or small. But again think of your audience. You know who's going to who's going to read this maybe a smaller journal is better and especially for your None article. Totally I would go with a smaller journal. 08:12.33 succinctbill Yeah. 09:48.72 archpodnet Yeah, well journals are theme too right? I mean you can find a journal for that makes sense for the topic that and and the audience that you're trying to reach sorry deck. 04:56.99 Doug Um, um. 07:36.54 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah. 08:26.49 succinctbill Yeah. 05:15.67 Doug Yeah, and ah like ah back to some things just picking up on a few comments people said like ah um, actually I think there's quite a few people still publishing and publishing lot in Journals because it's ah it's all those adjuncts that need to publish in journals. 08:25.80 Andrew Kinkella Another. 05:54.90 Doug To prove that they they can get that that tenure track job. So actually I think there's actually still we have more people publishing now than we ever has have. It's just that they usually publish a couple and then either get a job or burn out and do something else. Um, and there is this sort of. We're seeing ah a sort of process of what's called salami slicing um which was just mentioned is that you could actually like you know instead of publishing a book you could break your book up into you know, None or 6 different articles. Um, and. 11:50.56 archpodnet For in addition to you. 07:01.35 Doug Yeah, and so you you could basically some people just actually take a book or their dissertation and they instead of publishing it as a book they actually break it up into articles because one you can get it published relatively faster. Um I mean you know peer review is is hit or Miss and. 09:44.22 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 07:38.13 Doug You know it. It could be done in time for tenure like a book may not come out in time for tenure. Um, so ah, depending on what university you're at if that's if that's your driving factor. Yeah, it makes a lot more sense to get like None or 6 journal articles out than it does to get a book. Um, and then in terms of the process I think it really depends on the journal and if you have a good editor or not because um sometimes you're going to get back comments that actually you shouldn't be getting back like an editor should be ah taking out those comments. It says things like is is english this person's first language. 11:23.30 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah, yeah. 08:49.33 Doug Um, this is the stupidest thing I've ever said. But you know sometimes you don't actually like people aren't trained to be um, editors because it's usually handed off as a volunteer thing and they don't handle that. But um I would say if you're looking for a journal look for a theme but also like see the reputation of who the editors are. 12:24.10 succinctbill Yeah. 09:27.73 Doug Um, and see like you know, ask other people if they've published there and what their experience were because you'll sometimes you'll just be left out in the cold like you'll get back those peer review and it'll be horrendous and it will be um, not even relevant like a good editor should take onboard and then actually edit. Comments coming back? Um, and if you're left out there. You're going to have a horrible None experience. Um, So if you're looking for a journal and it's your None publishing look for theme but also like ask around and see like you know have other people had good experiences or bad experiences and. 15:14.64 archpodnet O. 10:42.67 Doug That's going to be a huge determining factor. Um, like you know some people need to publish in certain journals because you know for their universities. But if you don't have to publish in certain Journals choose one that's going to protect you and have give you a good experience. Um through the peer review process and. 15:41.20 archpodnet Yeah. 13:47.38 Andrew Kinkella Yeah I've had extremes too where they'll say how terrible some will say how terrible you are and some will say how great you are. You'll get like extremes or yes, ah where they completely disagree with there's a less certain spot. We're like this is the best thing ever. This is the worst thing ever. 16:09.58 archpodnet And just. 08:11.25 Heather On the same one on the same one. Ah. 14:53.51 succinctbill Yeah. 16:36.44 archpodnet Yeah. 08:27.61 Heather Right. 14:20.42 Andrew Kinkella You know? and so it is funny like that. 15:09.27 succinctbill Yeah, and also I I also feel like you can just basically it's your article and they need your article to live right? You don't need to write to live. But the people who write for these journals like they need your article to live. So if it's accepted. 08:42.33 Heather Right. 14:52.48 Andrew Kinkella Ah, yeah. 15:47.29 succinctbill And you have you know, usually there's 2 or 3 reviewers right? and if one of them is just a crack potter or they just don't like what you've written, then just I mean I guess this is a pg f that who cares who cares, there's in the world. There's always folks talking and very few people doing. 17:39.70 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 15:21.50 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 09:39.50 Heather Yes, frame. Yes. 15:34.12 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 16:25.67 succinctbill So who cares what that person has to say about like is English The first language is that you know you got to you just got to blow that off and I know it can be devastating psychologically to hear someone. Do you know say that kind of stuff about your writing but in all, fairness people just sit around and talk and they talk now more than they ever have before because there's more ways for us to actually hear the crappy. 18:28.16 archpodnet E. 17:04.77 succinctbill Stupid things that they have to say so like if you get comments that are just idiotic or will require you to basically rewrite in an entire another thing but it's been accepted then just forget that reviewer's comment right? You get to pick and choose basically which comments are going to work because just like Doug was saying you're. 16:16.76 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 16:39.94 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, totally. 17:42.41 succinctbill Your publisher your editor wants that article to get published and if it's going to be the difference between you taking something that's like you know 80% done and go into another journal journal where it's going to get published or getting it done there like they're going to help you work through the comments and get it done now. The other thing that can happen is everybody hates it. If everybody hates it then you might want to look between the lines and figure out like how come all 3 people said this is crappy like the number the number None reason why is because you chose a journal where that's not the target of the journal and they just they saw it. They're like yeah this this shouldn't even be published you like. 17:33.74 Andrew Kinkella Um, ah yeah, that. 11:46.15 Heather Ah, let's do some reflection here. 11:59.83 Heather Me here. 17:49.76 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah, you. 18:47.91 succinctbill Is an archeology journal. But it's about oral history and we really don't ever publish anything on oral history. Even though it was part of your archeology project go with an oral history Journal go with a history journal right? And so that that could actually be it or actually it's just not a very good. It's not a very good ah publication. 18:33.00 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, and in my. 20:56.14 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 19:25.59 succinctbill And so if if if all 3 people say no, you know if you've got 3 people and 2 say yes and 1 says no then just go with the 2 if you know all 3 people say no or if 2 of the 3 say no, then there's something critically wrong with it and you do have to actually kind of look at what you've written and figure that out and. 18:47.70 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah. 19:07.56 Andrew Kinkella Totally it's what in my experience. It's a bell curve of of the comments you know and they're going to center somewhere yet. You're going to get the extremes of you suck and you're awesome. But what's the you know where's the center at right? Bill's totally right? because like it some sometimes the center will be pretty good. 13:41.85 Heather Okay. 19:45.88 Andrew Kinkella Or the center will be pretty awful and you got to look at the center where is it all heading. 14:03.90 Heather And I and I think that this just goes back to what you guys were saying is that why are you doing this like you really have to have a passion for it. This has to be something that if you have a passion for it and you're you're realizing through some of these peer reviews that. 20:03.48 Andrew Kinkella Um. 14:35.70 Heather You know, maybe this isn't as great or you're not hitting the mark like you think you are um, you know there's something funny about writing when you write my mom taught me when I was in elementary school which is like I still use it and I tell people to use it when you're trying to read through and trying to figure out whether or not what you make. What? what? you've written makes sense reading it out loud. Even if you're just doing it yourself and nobody else can hear it actually really helps. Um because when you're reading something you're so married to it. You're so like invested in it. Um. 21:07.96 Andrew Kinkella Right? yeah. 22:02.93 succinctbill Yep, yeah. 15:40.90 Heather To the point where you're actually fill in the words and not only you fill in the words but you also fill in the meaning behind it and so sometimes you don't realize that that meaning and and what you're publishing or trying to publish doesn't make the sense that you think it does and so it really is good to have that feedback from people. And the passion and your drive and the reason why you're doing This is what's going to get you through it if you're doing it because it's an ego trip and because you want to say you published something or you want to say you published a book or you want to say you published in a certain journal if that's your main reason. 22:45.14 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 16:55.87 Heather That's not going to get you through it. It has to be the content is what you're passionate about and if the content is what you're passionate about you're going to do the best job you can and you're going to want to make it better and you're going to be open to the criticism I mean there's the. If anybody's written a thesis or a dissertation I mean you've had like how many versions and you should be willing and open to taking the the criticism and and also if you're if you know your subject really well and you are passionate about it. You'll be able to identify those people who are just beating. 23:26.60 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah, me. 18:07.45 Heather Being quote unquote haters right? and they they're not adding anything. Yeah. 23:57.26 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah, yeah, it becomes very obvious and I will I will say the cliche is True. It's like just write write it write it write it write it. You know, ah open the folder in your computer and start writing. And then when you're at a good Spot. You know Submit I will say that I've never submitted a loan ah single author just being myself. Ah pure something to a peer reviewed Journal because I have been reticent sometimes I've done a bunch of other stuff you know in the publishing world but a a lone author I haven't because sometimes I am Chicken. You know? and and as I tell everyone Oh don't be so chicken I'm talking to myself too. You know it it I do have trepidation sometimes just ah submitting but on the flip side as we talked about before you will see articles where you're like oh man that's terrible I could do better than that. Yeah, you got to get over that hump inside your own brain. 23:10.25 Doug And I would also say like um if you're a none t-time author or you know going to the process like yeah 2 reviews is a tiny like is such a small sample like I know you guys have said like you know have a think about it if. If ah, you know you come back with negative views but also like some journals are just quirky and they'll have things where like you need to have 3 yes ephatical this is the next coming of I don't know Binford whatever level thing or they won't accept it. Um, and I've had that happen where I got comments back stupid stuff I guess we're doing pg version stupid stuff but it was like things like um, you know, ah plural versus singular for data data and datum british versus. 29:37.84 archpodnet It's the bonus. 24:59.75 Doug American It was stupid but um because it wasn't a ah, an endorsement. You know it wasn't like ah this is the greatest thing I didn't get that published in that Journal I didn't actually change it I just took it to a different journal and it it sailed right through and and got pout published. Basically as is. 28:08.26 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah. 25:37.90 Doug Um, and actually the the editor from the first Journal uses that in their teaching. Um that that same article. Ah but it was the policy of the journal that you know, Um, if if it wasn't you know, glowing reviews. They weren't going to accept it. Um, and so yeah, so sometimes you're going to get. Bounce back and you might even get what's ah you know an an editor view or a desk check where you know if you're if you're trying to apply for like you know, send it into some place like nature science or one of the big Journals. It doesn't even go out to peer Review. It goes to a editor food None decides. You know is this worthy of of gracing the cover or not the cover. The pages of nature and they reject like out know 95% or 99% of all the submissions. Um without sending it to peer review and that might happen to you? Um, don't get discouraged. There's plenty of other places to publish. 29:38.22 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 29:49.62 Andrew Kinkella In here. 27:27.57 Doug Um, and I I know one of my huge pet peas is like people judge things on where it's published not on its content when obviously the content is what matters not where you publish it. 30:14.78 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, right? you know, ah you you bring up something that that made me think a little of my own some of my experiences Unfortunately so many of the peer reviewers are like bad reviewers. You know they haven't learned. 32:38.12 archpodnet Yeah. 24:32.17 Heather Right. 30:52.56 Andrew Kinkella This How to do this because they've never really written anything I will say writing a textbook. It made me such the better peer reviewer. Um, one of my favorite crappy peer reviews is where they bitch that you haven't cited them that I've had that multiple times so they're like. 32:04.25 succinctbill Yeah, yeah, last week when people do that junk when they do that I just refuse to cite them ever again or use them in class or ever mention them that's weak. 31:24.94 Andrew Kinkella I Can't believe you didn't cite my thing on caves and it's like yo yeah like you Yeah, it's pathetic. Yeah oh it's so bad. Yeah. 25:36.93 Heather Um, oh my goodness. That's yes it Yes, that's embarrassing actually. 32:42.39 succinctbill But also Andrew we are the peer reviewers they like so but you know the the mystery folks, the peer reviewers 2 of the people on this podcast. We're the peer reviewers we do it for free. They they recommend us I don't know how some of these places even figure out who I am. 32:01.15 Andrew Kinkella Ah, yeah, right? I know. 29:39.70 Doug So what. 33:17.13 succinctbill And then and then like out of the own benefit of our own heart. We are the ones who who do the peer review. So the peer review is people working for free that are doing it between classes between others because they don't trust everybody else like right? Doug's got a ph d heather. 32:35.34 Andrew Kinkella Phone. 33:55.37 succinctbill A high level person at a company you you couldn't possibly know only Andrew and I are the only ones empowered enough to to actually review it's freaking ridiculous. It's ridiculous. But. 30:40.83 Doug No man I I do peer review I just dude I just finished one like last week um I do peer review but I also like to make sure I do a good job I I won't do a peer review unless I can sign my name to it. 33:17.50 Andrew Kinkella That's right, That's right? yeah. 33:49.60 Andrew Kinkella And f. 34:38.23 succinctbill Um, oh. 31:17.35 Doug Unless the person who I'm reviewing knows that I reviewed it. Um I refused to do a blind or anonymous. Um peer review because like if if I can if I if I'm not signing my name. There's going to be that temptation to be a dick. 35:12.47 succinctbill Are. 31:52.37 Doug Like like if you have that anonymous like there's so much power there that you're just like um you know I could just make that snarky comment but you know snarky comments are not going to help and so I look at peer review as there should be you know, essentially one. 34:44.62 Andrew Kinkella Then Ah, yeah. 35:35.70 succinctbill Yeah. 32:27.29 Doug Honestly, if it's pseudoscience stuff. The editors should never sent it out. It should have been checked and chucked away. So I shouldn my job should be to as a peer reviewer which most people don't accept that as like their job as a peer reviewer some people look at it as like you know they must you know keep. 35:53.43 succinctbill Um, yeah, yeah. 35:05.76 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, the. 33:03.30 Doug Ah, the pure word of God Um, from ever gracing the cover. You know all these things of like being gatekeepers. Um, even though you're un published somewhere else. They they do that stuff. But honestly, you should either. You should look at it. You should look and see if you can find any critical mistakes like. 29:52.81 Heather 11 33:36.70 Doug Have they like misplaced a comma somewhere in their R code that means that ah they've basically got all their calculations wrong and all their their conclusions wrong you should check for that and then your job should be as a peer reviewer to make the best article possible and so. If I sign my name I'm signing my name to say the advice I'm giving is to try to make this with their goal. Not not the best article I could write because you know I'd write a different article. It's it's looking at their goal and saying hey how can I help you do better? Um, and that's. 37:06.38 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, so. 31:29.21 Heather Coach or cut your coach. Yeah. 38:07.67 succinctbill Yeah, yeah. 37:20.92 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, but dude you can you can see you can see how many small minded academics. Get totally jealous. You know because I think this is hilarious and really important how bill has broken open the secret world. 34:49.91 Doug That's how it should be but like. 38:36.57 succinctbill Um, yeah. 37:51.20 Andrew Kinkella Of the peer reviewer Yeah because it's so True. You know it's so like humanly fallible and you just see this stuff on the other side and again it's not to say if you've written something Crappy. You need to be honest, like oh my stuff's kind of crappy. But. Do realize that that that stuff is out there and it's just so sad and so childish. 39:14.55 succinctbill I Yeah yeah, and also ah doug your right to you know, take the time man like I run out of deadlines all the time I just ask for more time because if I don't have the time to actually do it right? You know I'm hurting somebody and also the same things happened to me before too because if you write Journal articles. 40:48.70 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 38:37.00 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 41:17.52 archpodnet Yeah. 39:54.57 succinctbill You're going to get ravaged by nuts and you know it's It's going to be it'll make you feel bad I'll make you not want to do it. It'll make it. You know it'll make you want to give up basically and so after that's happened to you. What right? do you have to ravage someone else right? like. 33:44.39 Heather Yes, we had. We had a whole conversation about this actually a whole whole chain email chain at my work because we were talking about this this California archeology email begging for journal entries and we all had kind of our ideas of why this happened and None of my one of my points. But there's you know is is right along what bill is saying actually everyone is that you know some of this elitist and this really petty behavior has scared people away. Um and actually started making them. You know, look for other ways of of getting their information or getting their their stuff out there and so now. You know you're relegated to it being people that um, you know, really have to publish like you guys are saying professors that have to that that have a you know tenure package that they're trying to put together and that they're required like some universities are requirering so only certain kind of journals that they can publish in. But for the most part people are like you know the world has changed now like if I want to publish. There's so many other options for me to publish. Why should I be going through this elitist type attitude and I think journals really need to start looking at that. Um in how they're selecting reviewers and how they're um. You know, guiding reviewers in you know in what they're doing. 44:39.48 archpodnet Ah. 43:10.73 succinctbill I got one last thing to say because we never actually talked about this like you're writing systems and I guess I don't want to get too deep into it. But um, basically when I have to write articles or any of that other stuff that I have to do like a certain amount every day. And I aim super low like None nutes of riding every day and for me writing is like it could be dictating it into my phone that I'll cut and paste into a document. It could be editing while I'm riding on the bus like any which way to get None nutes of riding every day when I have a writing goal. And it doesn't even actually have to be full sentences. They can just start with like bullet lists and other stuff or even cut and paste from articles that you're then going to rework you know as long as you keep the exact page number where you got the thing you're going to rework someone else's stuff just any of that stuff to keep your mind in the writing phase. Because I found especially when I was doing cultural resources if I went out in the field for a few weeks then I come back to my desk and I've got to sit there and write like it's really hard if you haven't kept up with you know, formulating words thoughts into words in your own mind and the reality is you're going to There's going to be some days where you're going to write for. 38:45.63 Heather Right. 46:57.32 archpodnet Yeah. 44:40.74 Andrew Kinkella At. 45:35.65 succinctbill You know an hour two hour hour 2 hours 8 hours if you have the time and there's other days where that 5 minutes of dictating a note in your phone that you're going to cut and paste later is all the writing you ever got to do that whole day and so the whole thing is to just basically keep with it because you know at the end of the day like what's the motivation for us to write. Well we're not looters. 45:04.60 Andrew Kinkella Right. 46:13.95 succinctbill Because looters don't keep notes you know they make a video and then they put it on Youtube or they you know, try to value the things that they've harvested from our heritage to sell but archaeologists are keeping notes we're writing this stuff down and so when you're talking about writing books or notes or I mean articles or any of that other stuff. It's just an extension of what you do as an archeologist and that's that's the big difference between archeologists and looters or ah amateurs or people who want to be archaeologists or students and being a professional archeologist you write? That's one huge part of your job and so any which way you figure out how to how to make it happen. 46:07.10 Andrew Kinkella Right. 47:31.23 succinctbill Whether it's journal articles or technical reports or blog posts or whatever like that's part of your obligation as a professional. That's what we do. 46:49.76 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, right? Yeah I do it I know where how ah Bill Bill does it every day 5 minutes I just look at my weekly schedule and I just make sure every week I've moved forward because I have to kind of do it when the muse hits me. 41:32.31 Heather Yeah, and I would say but for somebody who has no choice I write every day because that's my job. Um, you know, probably cranking out None reports a week at least and the one tip that I would give that was really hard for me that. 49:54.52 archpodnet Oh. 42:08.47 Heather Just would always mess up my string of thought and make it very frustrating is all these distractions that come in and so one tip that really helps me is that as soon as a thought enters my mind. That's not about when I'm writing write it down and let it go anytime. An email comes in like you just have to have your like. 50:51.36 archpodnet Yep. 42:46.75 Heather Spaces where you are uninterrupted and you can't control your thoughts So for me and it seems silly but it really does help if you have any thought that comes in your head that has something to do with what you're writing write it down and let it go Otherwise it's just gonna keep in your head and you're not gonna be able to get rid of it and I think that to me that's a. You know it works for me. 51:36.20 archpodnet Okay, well I'm going to wrap this up with a couple of things because Heather you just made me want to say one other thing as well. Um I used to use an app and I need to see if they've retooled their Apple watch app because that's really where I engaged with it. But I think they had Iphone and and Android apps as well. But it was an app called brain toss and it was essentially. It was designed exactly for that Heather you have something that just popped into your head that you don't want to forget or do you speak it or you type it into brain toss and it sends it to wherever you want it like I actually had it sending to a Trello board. It would make a new card with that recording or thought on a new card on ah like an incoming list that I had on a special trello board. 44:30.99 Heather Cool like that. 52:50.84 archpodnet But you could send it to email you could send it to text message. You could send it to anywhere that you can access via like basically a web link because that's what it That's what it would send it to and it was nice having it on my watch because I could just hit the button in the corner on my watch say something and then be done with it and then I always look at that my my trello to do list and and that's what it would be. However, now I would probably use um and this is full disclosure. None of our affiliates but motion has changed my life as far as how things go for my calendar schedule because I used to fill up my calendar with things I needed to do and estimating the time it takes to do them like oh I got to do this. So. I've got a hole on Thursday from 2 to 4 so I'm going to put this in there and that's what I'm going to do which made it difficult for other people to randomly schedule with me using my scheduling links. Um, but now with motion I just I put it in as a task I do have to estimate the time I estimate the importance of it and I estimate the time it needs to be done and motion. Sorts my tasks and creates my day for me, it still allows people to um to book over those tasks if I have time to still complete that task before the deadline. It's very intelligent. It's like it's basically an Ai used to plan your day and it's just it's a phenomenal It's a phenomenal thing um to to use that. so I liked it so much my wife is in it now and a couple of people we work with it. What wild note are in it and I contacted them because I was like listen guys I want to promote this so now it's an affiliate I think we get like a small percentage if somebody signs up for the year but it's nothing. Um, it's not going to make anybody any money but I just want to just support it because it's a good thing. The last thing I'll say in all this publishing stuff is one of the common denominators for all the publishing types. We talked about is the amount of time it takes to actually do it is lengthy even if it's ah you know an article for The California Journal of archaeology and they need people and they'll probably take anyone that takes submit something right now. They still have some standards to meet right? So even though they're they're probably in a tight deadline to get the next one out it's going to take you some time to write that article if you're starting from None and you haven't written it. It's going to take some time for them to have it reviewed and for you to make changes and updates and you know and and to get it in there and to get it published so all these things take time. So. I would say if you're starting out, you're brand new and you're you're listening to this and you're in a graduate program right now you're in a terminal master's or you're in a ph d program before your thesis is done and I know this is difficult or your dissertation I know this is difficult because you're like in it and you're just writing it but before it's even done I feel like you should be. Thinking about 3 different things a journal a book and some other form of media like a podcast a blog post something like that where you're presenting this research that you just spent None to 6 years working on right? So the time has already been spent. 58:18.30 archpodnet You just need to repackch this in different ways. A book is an obvious choice because you're basically writing a book with your dissertation right? So you know or your thesis're you're already doing that. Um, it might be a little more technical and you got to think about what kind of book is this going to be so you're going to have to rewrite it for the audience that you're you're looking for for the publisher. But. You're you're already going down that road. So while it's fresh in your head make that the next thing you do and then be preparing some sort of Journal article to to put this information out there so people can actually see it and then think about some other form of popular media like you know writing a series of blog posts about it or even a guest blog on somebody else's blog that. Discuss the similar things because they already have an audience if you don't have a blog or come on to ah a podcast like this or you know something on the archeology podcast network or something similar where you can talk about your work because you're in it. You've put in the work and you've already you know you've already gone down that road. So don't don't just forget about it and start doing something else. Um, because you like I said you've already put the level of effort in and you know paid none to do that. It's so get something out of it. You know, but anyway that's it as Doug is saying in the comments. That's my monologue and ah nice thing about bonnets is we have no timeframe we can just do whatever we want? no. Any final comments on this and I think I'll just throw that to Andrew since this is your topic Andrew Any ah final thoughts on on wrapping this up. 58:39.98 Andrew Kinkella Ah, now I Just thought that that I think we hit all the all the high notes I mean I think somebody who's thinking of publishing we've given it to you. You know all the all the outlets all the possibilities the need to just kind of. Drive needed to keep doing this and then I would finally say just because you were talking about forward thinking for your masters or your Ph D I did the thing where I split it up just because it seemed to work better for me. So I ended up having 1 or 2 or 3 like ah ah. 01:01:52.76 archpodnet M. 59:49.16 Andrew Kinkella Peer Reviewed Journal articles and I had a chapter in an edited volume and so I just pulled from my ah dissertation in several ways and I'm still going to pull for it 1 more time. Um I'm going to write a a book for the general public about the maya sinotes. That's what my dissertation's on the Maya Andotes 01:02:45.36 archpodnet Nice. 01:00:25.72 Andrew Kinkella But that's how I did it right? I pieced it out and I will say in the comments what we were talking a little bit you know and like Bill was saying that he's trying to get his grad studentss to do this and and I do too like people who I'm on their committees and stuff I'm like forward think you know what are you going to do with this the writing of the dissertation or the master's thesis. Is just a step It's not the end. All be all like what are you do after it. How are you going to use this to prop yourself up in the academic world. 01:03:40.20 archpodnet Yeah, indeed all right? Well while Andrew tries to round out his career by talking about prehistoric swimming pools. Let's ah, finish off. 01:01:37.42 Andrew Kinkella You know you know I am just tired of giving my good name to this podcast. Okay. 55:58.73 Heather That's awesome. 01:02:39.17 succinctbill I. 01:04:18.48 archpodnet Ah, all right guys? Well this has been a fantastic bonus segment and again if you're listening to this. It means you're a member of the podcast or you pirated it and and your your other member friends downloaded it and gave it to you. That's fine too. We don't care but consider becoming a member if you're not already. 01:02:15.82 Andrew Kinkella Um, kingdom. 01:03:14.69 succinctbill Um, the. 01:04:52.54 archpodnet It really does help out. Trust me, it really does help out every little every little penny as you can hear through this discussion on publishing. There is not a lot of money in this field. No matter what you do so it it really helps us keep everything going if you do that and again we thank you very much and we will see you next time. Thanks a lot. 01:03:53.93 succinctbill By. 01:03:06.36 Andrew Kinkella By. 01:05:28.56 archpodnet Feel free to say goodbye. 01:00:31.65 Doug Bye. 57:18.15 Heather Hi everyone.