00:00.00 archpodnet Hello and welcome back to the CRM archeological podcast episode None and it's just me Andrew can Kelly talking with Doug and Doug I'd like to throw it back to you for segment 2 What do you got. 00:14.54 Doug Yeah, well ah sorry Andrew I'm I'm just going to toss it right back to you. It's actually your' prefer you're ready. Yeah, it was ah because you'd mentioned you had got crm and now that you're now your life goal is to to basically retire from the university. 00:40.92 archpodnet That's fine. Oh I'm prepared just do it. 00:50.14 Doug Um, and be an emers professor who who occasionally um teaches and then talks about the good old days of yo. 01:05.82 archpodnet Yeah. Totally oh, That's it I Want to be a racon tour. That's what I want to be the. 01:11.28 Doug Are you going to develop some weird things like you know, wear a pith helmet around campus and you know maybe like leopard skin boots or you know, just just be that weird old professor. 01:51.90 archpodnet Dude I've already looked into buying a monocle I'm not kidding So yes is the answer. 01:47.32 Doug Is this So this is what we'll come on to like you know preparing for your career goals because obviously buying a monocle is something you should You should prepare for? yeah. 02:24.16 archpodnet That's number one on the list by monocle. Ah, yeah, so so in terms of how my goals kind of shifted and changed. So I think so many of us experience this in in archeology. So. You you get a bachelor's and while you're getting your bachelor's maybe you go to a field school or 2 and you're like ooh this is great. This archeology thing and then you get out and you realize that to continue working internationally on some you know. Project like that. Basically you need a ph d and you need connections. You need a full time gig. So what can you do between that. Well there's crm, especially if you have the skill set which I did I was very fortunate to go to a place where I learn the the good skills for that. And so actually there was a time there where being a college professor was just like a way far away pipe dream and I'm like oh that could be cool if it happens but I think part of me I'm very realistic in some ways. So I'm like but dude in in realistic terms. I need a job now I would like to stay in archeology and that equals crm so I wanted to do it right? and I got into crm and like you I I enjoyed it. My early experiences. My early experiences were a lot of survey like yours. Um, the survey in. Various places in Southern California a lot on military bases because there's huge military bases here in Southern California so you do these big surveys at like Camp Pendleton and then I also had some experience on the California Arizona border. For a while doing survey again there some of the things that you were talking about about your experiences at the border. Ah it felt similar like it almost feels the same on my skin. Yeah when I when I think back to when I was working on the California Arizona border because it was very deserty and hot and. That kind of thing but I really enjoyed it and I wanted to take serum. Ah I wanted to be professional about it and so I'm like ok I'm doing this the months rolling by you know the years are rolling by and I'm like how do I move forward. So I started to get goals in serum of. Had him how to move forward in there and and try to tease out an end goal for myself in Sarah M two like if the okay if the academic thing never works out. You know where do I go in c crm and it was it was a bit of an odd road where i. 07:43.48 archpodnet I think for myself if I'd stayed in CR m my angle would have been to own my own small company. 07:50.52 Doug That's that's ambitious man. 08:06.12 archpodnet It it just seemed ah to make sense. There's a moment and I'm bummed that Chris isn't here today because I feel like Chris probably had the same thing. It's like after you work in it for a while you kind of see how the sausage is made. You know you're like wait. By that point I'm like I have a master's degree I could bid for jobs. Why am I only making a portion of the profit. You know what? I mean. 08:44.70 Doug Yeah, well Andrew did you ever actually go to start your own company. Yeah, because then you you kind of realize that not only are you not making a porsche of the profit profit like you're reinvesting your profit slash your salary into the company to keep it going and. 09:06.60 archpodnet No. 09:31.40 archpodnet Yeah. 09:23.60 Doug It's rough. But yeah, so how? how'd you? how'd you So you were you were thinking either. You become a company owner owner or then did you end up trying to get like a Ph D in there or something How how'd you end up going going the community ah college route. 09:54.20 archpodnet I is yeah so basically so I'm doing serum and and and I my serum background when I think about it is sort of odd but it's probably similar to so many others. Ah. But the very none job in serum I got was probably somewhere in 1995 and the very last job I had in serum was 2004 so it was almost the better part of a decade but in that decade I only really worked full time 40 hours a week and with overtime and all that for about a solid 2 years. Um, before that it was kind of None job here None job there and then my last couple years in cm um were ah where I would go to school I was getting my Phd right and I goes like to school Monday Wednesdays Fridays and I do see our m Tuesdays Thursdays. So. I always had this intertwined serum academic thing going on. Um, which which was which was cool. Although if you do that you find that the academic world is always down on you for that they almost they almost try and make you not do that that they're like oh you're you're. Supposed to be a Phd person you know, full time can't can't have any other job which is ludicrous ah of course and and actually just that like I had to do that totally undercover because. 12:19.42 Doug Oh man I got I got stories about that but continue. 12:56.88 archpodnet the the university not only looked down on it. But I think if they really wanted to I think they could have like pulled my funding or something you know the pittance they give you like month by month if you're a ta that not nearly enough to live on. But of course it didn't happen and so many others do this. But It's sad that you have to almost commit a crime by working you know in order to make enough money to survive. But I I really enjoyed the juxtaposition of. Going into some really like high end theater theory based class on a Monday you know where they're just talking these highest ideals. Whatever and then on Tuesday I'm like watching huge machinery dig huge holes in downtown Los Angeles and and it's a learning experience it you know I recommend that for anyone to have those extremes. 14:32.92 Doug Um, and so then you, you know you've moved over you're on the ah the quote unquote academic side of things. Um, and ah, you have your um, your long term goal which is you know. 15:07.22 archpodnet Um, yeah. 15:25.20 archpodnet Yes. 15:10.92 Doug Be be the weird old professor. Um, ah the centric one. Um, ah how how are you planning because you know people have goals and then you you you sort of reach your goal or you you have it within reach So you you know what? your your end is but. 15:51.64 archpodnet Um, yeah. 15:48.48 Doug How how do you make plans to maintain that especially with ah academia where programs are being shut down around lots of different countries. Um, you know, ah funding ah comes in so waves and so. 16:14.86 archpodnet Yeah. 16:21.80 Doug I Mean with community colleges. You're much more dependent on student numbers than say a research intense University and so generational. Um, you know there's ah, there's waves like ah. 16:43.64 archpodnet Yep yep. 16:48.94 Doug Yeah, there's the baby boomers and went down the ah eighty s and then shot back up in the 90 s into the 2000 and it went back down. Um, so you you have a lot sort things that are going to kind of interfere with your your long-term goal there. How are you planning to? ah um. 17:27.88 archpodnet White. Yeah why why you got to bring me down Doug why you got to bring me down to reality. Ah that that is very true. So in the community college world as you said it's totally about students and numbers and we watch those trends all the time like how many. 17:23.82 Doug To maintain it. Ah. 18:06.56 archpodnet How many high schoolers are in the local high schools. You know that that kind of stuff and so you have to be smart and and watch that. Ah, but in terms of in terms of maintaining and changing goals. Really I I find that it's so smart to have. I would call them side hustles that that feed into your overall goals. You know, learning learning new things that that are thematically correct to your goals and even for me like I find that? ah. I find that I I try and keep my cr m ah knowledge sharp because just in case, right? That's right if they gave me the note tomorrow and they're like hey can Keller guess what? Well we're closing the department I'd be like oh my god time to call all the Crm people I know. You know? so I and I will say funnily enough I miss Crm a little bit. Um I miss I I miss the organization of it and how it's done I miss being a part of that in in some ways because it's very different from academia. And I I think what's odd for me is so I was doing this like cmstuff for years and then in 2004 that summer I'm working full time since it was summer so I'm I'm I'm working you know 40 hours a week on aerum gig I was surveying in Southern California and basically there was a Friday where I was surveying and doing crm. Um, and then I put my hard hat and my orange vest in a box and I was a college professor on the Monday and it it was just it was a strange you know, absolute none of what I'd been doing. And I still have the box in my office and sometimes I look at it I'm like oh my god there's my hard hat and I don't know if I've reckoned with my crm past None but ah it so in terms of of those goals and moving on currently since since i've. Even achieve some of my goals and I've been very fortunate to to do some of that stuff as being an archaeology professor I'm also like let's let's get in touch with some of the crm firms and just see what's going on I wonder if there's anything that I could do once a week you know and to kind of keep again to keep those that. Skill set shiny ah, ah, fairly recently and by fairly recently I mean the last five none I got a ah my scuba diving certification but not just my certification but my dive master certification and that was something that I could use. 23:46.72 archpodnet For my research and Belize but that was like a smaller goal and that was really fulfilling when I did it. So so that worked and I know that other people do things in their career like they'll get a gis certification or something that they didn't have before that stuff is is gold because it helps you in your job. And it also just gives you something to shoot for it. Kind of any job can have a little monotony to it and it it wipes away the monotony and kind of keeps you fresh on the do you do you do any of that same sort of stuff. 24:34.52 Doug Yeah, so um, like actually just well how do it like ah because I'm a small child and was quite busy during the week so I just actually submitted a bit of work for a course I took so it was about data visualization. 25:08.64 archpodnet Yes. 25:22.80 archpodnet Yeah. 25:10.90 Doug Um, and so actually it was it was a really interesting course about using r and r markdown um, and it was a different way of doing some of the work I've already done but ah basically it's you know it's data visualization and part one of the like None different strands of things I do. Um, is pulling together a lot of data mainly on archeologists. But um, it was about how to pull you know present the stuff and I I like that sort of thing. Um and it was good. But yeah, it's it's sort of that. What people love to call cpd which um. I know for some reason when you say cpd it. It seems like it destroys all the fun of learning like like I I don't know why people like it's one of those weird things like I think a lot of people get into archeology. 26:43.78 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 26:58.86 Doug You know for a variety variety of reasons but a lot of people are there for learning like learning new things discovering new things. Um and weirdly like it. It can sort somewhat get like you Basically you start out and this isn't everyone but you you start out university. 27:18.44 archpodnet Ah. 27:37.36 Doug And that's all you do is just learn um and like you keep going and work. Ah, but for some reason like the fun of learning can sometimes get just taken out. Ah surgically removed. Um so I do along and. 28:17.36 archpodnet Yeah. 28:15.60 Doug A lot along the similar lines is like I actually like learning new things. Um and picking up things that yeah can be relevant to my work. But also you know sometimes it's just random stuff that like it probably is not going to be ah helpful for your work but you never know. 29:03.30 archpodnet Yeah. 28:52.20 Doug You never know it can come back a couple of years later and suddenly that's how you get a job because you had a little bit of experience in this one random topic. Ah. 29:21.20 archpodnet Yeah, so true. That's that's happened to me a bunch of times you know like it's where I just happened to have some funky arcane knowledge. It actually my in in the c r m world I happen to work on a historic site. Um, just with historic bottles and stuff it was from around oh 1900 or so and I and I got pretty good at historic bottles and I thought nothing of it but then in Belize when I was working on the Maya. We found this historic site from around 1900 that it was from ah loggers from like 1900 working deep in the jungles of Belize and so I wrote up this little historic site and it became of of all the little papers and stuff I've done It's like the most popular one. Everyone downloads this historic archeology in Belize thing I did. And the only reason I did it is because I was the only crew member who happened to know historic archeology and I just I just fell into it. You know so you're totally right? It's like all those little you you never know. But when in doubt there will be a time. Well you're you're going to need that skill. 31:25.46 Doug Yeah I think some of it's also sort of horizon scanning as well. Um, so what you're doing with the you know, just trying to keep in contact with companies seeing if you can maybe do one day a week. Um I think I know there are those people who talk about. 31:49.32 archpodnet Um. Yeah, yep. 32:04.78 Doug Like basically how you know you could you could start a factory at 16 and then retire at 65 um I don't see that existing anywhere anymore for pretty much any job. Um. 32:39.16 archpodnet Now. Yep. 32:37.76 Doug Ah, the world's changing too much and and to be honest, that's ah we sort of talk about that like as that's how things were always were but it wasn't like even even in the past like we sort of talk about like oh yeah I know this person was ah was ah a potter. 33:10.14 archpodnet Ah. 33:13.30 Doug Actually and also they might have been a part-time farmer or at some point had been in the military and you know like not careers like we you know when we talk about the past we talk about like that was they always did that. Um, but they didn't and you know, um, it's relatively. 33:52.56 archpodnet Right. 33:52.78 Doug Honestly, really just people who were born who could go to work in in the 1940 from 1945 onwards and you know in some other countries 1955 after they repaired all the bomb damage. Um, yeah, is it quite small number of people I think you do have to basically. If you have sort of an end goal. You can't sort of just rest on your laurels. Um I I know there's a lot of people who are like oh yeah, once you get an academic job. It's for life but it really isn't oh. 35:06.68 archpodnet No, it's and you know we've heard on this podcast before when like Bill and I will joke about that. You know it. it's it's it's really not that idea of just like oh and now I have tenure so I sit down and it it's always dynamic your. Always worried that that the the department's going to close or the classes aren't going to make or whatever that it's it's constant. So it's it is I mean it's nice being a college professor and there is some job security. Definitely I'm not here to say that it's just that it's the same as as as being a crm tech not the same. But um, it is not the cliche ah and with that we will end this segment to and come back talking more about end goals in archeology see you in a minute.