00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is bill in California Doug in Scotland and Andrew in California and I'm currently in. 00:04.44 Bill White Good morning. 00:08.10 Doug And everyone. 00:12.86 Andrew Hey guys, how's it going. 00:19.25 archpodnet Central nevada off highway 50 hixon petroglyphs look it up. It's a pretty cool little site. In fact, we might we actually got here kind of late yesterday evening and and it's just an overnight stop for us but might go check out the petroglyphs a little bit before we leave because they're literally right up the hill from us. So that's pretty cool. And also I just need to point out as you likely heard in the intro this is episode 250 bill when we started this. You've been here since like day one doug you've been here since day 1 did you ever think we'd hit 250 episodes I mean to be honest. 00:46.68 Bill White Yeah, no, and also I have a feeling that first episode was the same length as all of the 249 that we had after that. Yeah yeah. 00:58.85 archpodnet Um, yes was like two and a half hours long oh my god over. It's just from time alone our first few years until really until I started the apn and we we. 01:03.90 Bill White We could have just ended right there and already beat most podcasts. 01:14.70 archpodnet Dropped everything down to I think C Orr Mark dropped down before that it was kind of ah a primer into the apn. But um, we just wanted to have a more well-defined show before we just would go and go and go until we decided not to go anymore and. I mean honestly, you're right I mean a minimum episode was probably an hour and a half but we had some that top 2 hours plus and that took me so long to edit because not only did I suck at editing back then and I was really slow but it was just like so long so it was tough which is probably. 01:37.72 Bill White Further. 01:43.23 Bill White Her. 01:47.37 Doug Yeah, it Chris do we actually have those episodes anywhere like because I know on the ah on the stream like you only get like the last hundred some episodes or something like that. 01:48.96 archpodnet This Well yeah. 01:57.47 archpodnet Yeah, well that's that's typically how most Rss feeds work too right? They only hold about 100 episodes. Um I think once we move to this new service. We're going to be moving to Zencastr hosting. In fact, Sierra Mark is already on Zencastr hosting. And I don't know if the feed is holding more but things like Itunes only like display often the last hundred anyway, there might be an adjustment we can make there. But for anybody that wants to hear some of those old episodes. They're always available at arcpodnet.com. So all you have to do is go there and then you can you can find the older episodes. It might not be in your podcast player. But you can definitely find them there. So go check that out that first episode was in I think it was ah 2020122013 I think it's 2013 because. 02:48.60 archpodnet Next? Yeah sorry yeah, 2013 in February because next year is our basically our 10 year anniversary of doing this so it's um, kind of a pretty big, pretty good milestone in podcasting I think I don't think a lot of podcasts don't make it 2 years let alone 10 So yeah. 02:53.66 Bill White So wow. 03:04.27 Bill White I should look and see what the anniversary is do we all get Diamond rings or something I don't know I'm bad ah home bad. Ah, ah okay I got it. Ah. 03:09.41 archpodnet It's think it's wood I think it's wood. That's the paper anniversary I'm not sure. Oh yeah, right? That's right. 03:11.69 Andrew Are per yeah ah yeah, but yeah, but but I get nothing. 03:18.30 Bill White Can go get some driftwood off the you know I'll go to San Francisco pick up some driftwood wity whittle us all a ring. 03:26.89 Andrew Because I'm way too low in the pyramid scheme. Ah I Just a hops giving a joke. 03:29.20 Bill White Now you only have eight more years. It's cool. Ah well it does seem like it Actually it does seem like it was only a few days. 03:29.63 archpodnet That's right. 03:38.60 archpodnet I'll have like I'll have like super bowl rings made up or anyway for all the og guys. So yeah, yeah, so all right? Well our topic today this is it's it's my topic today and the ah title of the episode of course is winter is coming and. 03:40.22 Bill White Nice, nice. 03:43.33 Andrew Ah, yeah. 03:55.66 archpodnet As we're recording this. It is the last recording we're doing in September so it's it's near the end of September it's fall in a lot of places already in you know Reno was like ° a week and a half ago and we were up in Lake Tahoe this last week and the lows were in the low thirty s so it was kind of a shock. To go from hundreds to low thirty s and highs only in the 50 s low sixty s for that last week so I think he's coming up again. This week was kind of ah a little cold for him but it was a little taste of hey fall is coming plus need I say more pumpkin spice lattes. So you know, call me basic if you want but they're amazing. So um. In In fact, I've got my wife got at trader Joe's pumpkin flavored espresso beans like the you know like the chocolate covered espresso beans but they're like pumpkin covered espresso beans and they're amazing anyway, I didn't either. Yeah, she just like saw them and got them. 04:45.18 Andrew I I didn't know they had those. Ah so I'm on the see archeological podcast. Yeah. 04:45.41 Bill White Um, why I love the pumpkin spice lattes I see that pumpkin spice lattes have actually crossed the atlantic and I noticed that they had him in Denmark when I was there last fall. 04:54.94 archpodnet That's right. 04:58.48 archpodnet Nice eyes. 05:00.84 Bill White And shaking my head like you guys have so much delicious coffee. Why would you ever. But then I know it was because Chris drove there first and told them and then they you know it was like the like the mayflower you you brought psls and then all of a sudden the whole country couldn't stop. 05:07.24 archpodnet Indeed. 05:13.28 archpodnet Now 2 of my good friends in civil air patrol who's who took over a squadron commander when my term was over is from Denmark she's Dana she goes back to denmark almost every year except for the the covered years and I'm I'm going to just. I'll take that win I'll say that she brought pumpkin spice lattes to to Denmark for me. So there you go so anyway. So anyway, winter is coming and from a serum archaeologist standpoint now we're not necessarily talking to all of you people out there that have. 05:34.30 Bill White Ah, all right. 05:44.92 archpodnet You know, fulltime jobs you you know what? you're doing over the winter because you're doing it every year. It's not really a discussion for you guys. Although I everybody knows that's listen to this podcast for a long time I wrote a book I think 2014 is when it was published and it was all about living and and working as a ser archeologist. And all the things you can do to to kind of keep your lifestyle going and I always thought that as like a second book I would write one ah around that was based ah around like your career but also a single year and because a kind of a metaphor for each other you know where each chapter would like be a month it will be broken up into sections which would really be quarters of the year and you know you start you start trying to get your job for this for the spring and then you know looking at your finances and looking what you need for the year looking at some big purchases. You may have to make maybe a new car or truck. Maybe some big maintenance items. Maybe some dental work I mean who knows right? What? what kind of savings. Do. You need to start building up when the field season really kicks off and you can you can sock away a bunch of money if you can and then as the season goes through you progress on you know through spring and summer and fall leading into winter and then what do you do to start. Planning for winter and and one of the things that I want to talk about first is well should you work right? Should you even work because we we have this job where people are always stressed out about where their next job is going to be trust me I've been there. You know when you get that job. That's only supposed to last three weeks and. 07:13.90 archpodnet You know on day one of the job. This is such a unique position. We're all in but you get this job and then all of a sudden you're looking for another job like immediately and it's just it feels like you're always sending out Cvs and always looking for another job and it was even more tough for my wife and I because we would submit them together and we say we come as a package so you either hire both of us or you hire neither of us. And we had pretty good success doing that because we would typically apply to bigger projects that need more people so that was not really a problem and we both had equivalent experience. So it's not like they were you know it's not like one was a we want you? but I guess we'll take you and you two because you come with the package. We were both. You know, equally experienced in that. So but it's like you're always looking for a job and we always stressed out too coming into fall like okay what are we going to do for the fall. What what is our work going to be do. We have enough money to live for a few months if we don't have work. You know that's always a question and in the first few years that we were together and working we were in the southeast and in the southeastern United States you kind of do always have work right now development and construction does slow down in the winter pretty much everywhere. It seems I don't know if it does in the southwest in the non-snowy regions of the southwest but or even like Southern California or something like that. But it seems like just because of. National and global supply chains and things everything does kind of slow down in the winter. Even if where you live doesn't really experience a winter and so because of that you may still have to figure out. Well do you want to work so I'm curious with your guys' opinions right? now you know and and. 08:44.68 archpodnet And and bill you too because you did a lot of cm. You know when you were leading up. Did you ever plan to not work for the winter or did you just always have work because you were like in Tucson. 08:45.51 Bill White Yeah, yeah. 08:54.85 Bill White Well so yeah, you know that's a good question because my career was split between Seattle and Idaho which definitely experienced changes. You know in the winter and then Tucson. So ah, you know when I was in Idaho I was just a tech so it was the minute snow came we were pretty much done. 08:59.29 archpodnet Right. 09:11.95 Bill White However, I was fortunate to work for a little while on a project where we you know it was really interesting like it was January so it was cold but we set up these like plastic longhouse like greenhouse things with pvc pipe to kind of keep snow from getting on there and then keep the. 09:20.31 archpodnet Ah. 09:30.47 Bill White Ground from freezing so that we could dig and we'd set them up like 3 or 4 days in advance and they would you know the sun would radiate and warm up the ground so that we could actually start digging through those top layers that are frozen and that was a transportation department project and it was like. Ah, really an interesting way to do that. But it was data recovery right? So survey is what I spent most of my time doing in crm anyway and surveys like shut down when there's snow so in Washington you know in the puget sound area. It didn't really snow but you're right like government agencies and um. 09:48.74 archpodnet Sure. 09:57.80 archpodnet Um. 10:05.39 Bill White The other clients you know they're not necessarily looking to build or set things up in the winter because they know that Thanksgiving in December their crews are going to be off. So if you're doing some kind of construction starting it then is a bad idea which means the planning stage is a lot of times. It's it's not really going to happen. 10:17.62 archpodnet Sure. 10:23.45 Bill White And so there was a lot of slowdowns. There was furloughs and stuff and so you know I scraped by with savings when I was a tech I just found another job. You know work at a grocery store something like that because I couldn't I couldn't just not have a job but in Seattle I just lived off savings and you know I was down. To maybe twenty five thirty hours a week until ah I don't know probably February or so January february it depends because once again it all depends on the contracts like if they've got a huge project and there's a bunch of monitoring and other you know data recovery kind of projects then. 10:45.57 archpodnet Um. 11:00.63 Bill White You get to stay on or you get your full hours because those hours are already contracted, but if they're looking for projects and they're still trying to ah you know, get hired on them then you can know that the revenue is short and field tax and you know, entry Level. Ah. Crew Chiefs and stuff are probably going to see their hours cut if not just laid off. So. 11:20.95 archpodnet Right? Andrew. 11:23.40 Andrew And oh I was just going to say that my experience mirrors bills really close I I will say that in Southern California it does tend to slow down over the winter you do experience that winter thin time but it does depend a little on what the project's doing like I would say the. 11:34.77 archpodnet Um. 11:40.37 Andrew Big projects, big surveys big excavations in my experience. None of that's really going on in the winter months but if you're just monitoring or something the monitoring will last longer like it'll slow down too. You know, but you you get you get way closer to making it over the hump to the next year 11:50.97 archpodnet Sure look. 12:00.18 Andrew With with that and of course there's lab work if you're lucky, but ah yeah, my experience mirrors that and I took a second job too I was a pool lifeguard for years to us I would do that I was like a pool lifeguard slash c r m tech. 12:05.35 archpodnet Oh. Well, we'll I think we'll talk about alternative jobs for the winter in the next segment but Doug why don't you take us out. With your child. 12:28.95 Doug Title. Um, sorry you guys, you're all seeing here I'm letting out there as well. Um, yeah I mean I've I've worked in places where you can work through the winters I've worked in the southwest american southwest I've worked in. Um, the U K and in the uk like contrary even though it's really far north with the jet stream. We actually don't get that much snow and it doesn't really it got a lot colder in New Mexico um that ever gets in ah and the u k but I'm kind of. 12:50.57 archpodnet Yeah. 12:59.30 Doug The opinion that it actually can really destroy you working through the winter because while the weather. It's so workable. It's it's really horrendous like in the u k you're basically cold and wet for five or six months straight um and then. 13:05.56 archpodnet Mm. 13:16.70 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 13:18.78 Doug And you know I remember like so one of the projects we did like it in November we're in the south the south part of New Mexico and the temperature went from 25 so like you know, negative 5 or something celsius. And swing up to like 58 so like you know ° in a day but we we we get up in the morning scrape all the um ah you know all the frost off the off the vehicles windows we had drive 2 hours and 13:41.63 archpodnet Js yeah. 13:54.40 Doug But by the afternoon we're down to like t-shirts you you had to layer up which wasn't a thing but like man wind wind takes it out of you. It. It drains you um, a lot like and and the winter is windy. Um, yeah, I'm kind of with an opinion like. Even though you might be in a place that you can work during the winter you may not want to because it's it's Goingnna be really physically draining I know add a a multiplier of like I'm 3 or times 2 or one and a half I don't know it depends where you are I'm sure. 14:23.50 archpodnet Yeah, indeed. 14:31.60 Doug Some people? Well okay, so like you know you go to the Middle East and the winter's the best time for work because it's you know, ° and that's that's the only time you could actually work the the summer is the reverse. We're just bringing into. Um yeah I know most places especially if you're talking North America 14:41.75 archpodnet Garrett. Okay. 14:48.63 Doug Yeah, you can work during the winter but I'm not sure you want to with exceptions of I know has any of you guys worked in Florida I hear that's decent enough whether during the winter. Yeah. 15:00.40 archpodnet I started in Florida. 15:00.29 Bill White Yeah I never I never worked in Florida but I know that Arizona specifically Southern Arizona is just like you were saying like the Middle East the best time to work is the winter and the only thing you really have to worry about is rain because if you're doing excavation. Soils are just so fine that the water turns it into this complete slop that you can't really step on or move on. So if they've done any kind of like um, ah if they've scraped it down to find the features and stuff you don't want them to get rain on them because it it washes them out and destroys these really ephemeral features. 15:22.93 archpodnet Um, right. 15:36.40 Bill White But survey and stuff like that in the wintertime is is awesome in Southern Arizona because it might be drizzling or whatever but it's you know ° when you start 60 or 70 during the day you know you might need a jacket. Yeah, it could be windy but at least there's not dust because the the dirt is all wet I mean. That's the best time and Southern Arizona is the only place where it did seem like there was year-round work where I worked you know, ah in the wintertime they just continue building I mean it's Phoenix right? So it's just like the gold rush of America they just keep building and building until everything crashes and then when it crashes it crashes. 16:09.37 archpodnet Yeah, but. 16:13.99 Bill White And then you know they get some kind of federal money to keep some other kind of jobs going and then the minute there's even an uptick one second in the economy. They just start building more houses and so in in ah you know Arizona that place is always open for business. You can work yearround and the winter's actually the best time to be out there. 16:31.60 archpodnet Nice, nice, all right? Well with that. Let's take a break and on the other side we're going to talk about being able to continuously work as an archeologist through the winter where you can do that what types of jobs you can do. And maybe I will discuss the horrors of working in the hellscape that is the state of Florida back in a minute.