00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to segment 3 of the sierra mark podcast episode 56 and we're talking about conferences, professional organizations so we started talking about this at the end of the last one. The essay is coming up in Portland in oh usually april I don't know the exact dates but it's usually April or the end of March sometimes. And Sa's is going to be in like a week and a half from the date this is released so you know let's talk about these? Yeah, right? a way bigger investment right? So that is that is one other thing that I will say that maybe the big conferences get you is. 00:23.86 Bill White And it's going to be in Portugal too which is a bigger investment than Portland. 00:38.19 archpodnet I have gone to cities that I've never gone to for any other reason other than there was a conference there and if you can get out of the conference and maybe see some of the city and do some of the stuff around there. You know I mean you can do it for a lot cheaper than going to a conference. But maybe you can get another extra benefit of going to the conference by. Getting to visit that city and and going there I've never been to Portugal I was going to go to the shs our plans changed. So I'm not going to go anymore. But I was really looking forward to that and the sa is was a good catalyst for saying hey let's just go there and do this at the same time. 01:06.70 Heather Continue. 01:08.57 Bill White Yeah, and I hear that um lisbon portugal is nothing like St Charles Missouri where you get snowed in and you know, yeah exactly you can you know eat at gosh what was that restaurant that was like the only thing in the parking lot I can't even remember. 01:13.23 archpodnet That was a great SHA. 01:14.79 Heather Um. 01:21.57 archpodnet Ah, the only 1 open everything else was closed because it was like snowpocalypse. 01:25.32 Bill White Oh man, it's it's such a I love it too. It's a great restaurant I can't remember it has a it's a something country kitchen I can't remember what it is right now I love it. They don't really have them in California but I love them cracker barrel that's it cracker barrel. 01:31.80 archpodnet Ah I can't remember either. Yeah I don't know I don't know but that was yeah that was an interesting one was it a Cracker Barrel Oh man. Yeah. 01:41.92 Bill White Yeah, three squares at Cracker Barrel man because you're snowed in So what else are you going to do right? Yeah I love it. Okay, but I mean like the international ones because that's the that's the thing right? like the idea is that you would the. 01:44.46 Heather Fried Okra Fried Okra I Love it. 01:47.18 archpodnet Fried Okra Nice plus. 01:57.88 Bill White If you're going to get to the networking thing. The big one is where everybody's at if the regional one is where all the regional people are at the big one is where everybody's at so you know is it is it worth it for you to spend multiple thousands to go to that one and then also. What does being a member of the huge ones actually give you right? if the regional ones going to give you connections to people who are going to hire you what does being a member of the essay a or the aaa like but what do you get from that. 02:12.98 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:24.55 archpodnet Right? You don't even get there there. Ah what is it? they're they're like classes they do throughout the year they're like webinars and stuff like that. Even those for members are like a hundred dollars yeah they're not free for members. Yeah, so I don't know I don't know what you get. 02:30.68 Bill White I Yeah because those cost money. Yeah, they cost. So. 02:36.55 Andrew You. 02:39.65 archpodnet And I think they got a lot of I think they think they have a lot of benefits all these committees that are supposed to be doing everything and and you know the journal and all that stuff. But if they've got a lot of benefits for people. They don't do a really good job of selling it. You know and telling you why you know. 02:51.24 Bill White No well and I would tell you the the journal. Yeah, that's definitely the huge benefit but you can go to the library and get it right? I mean if you if you're a member of the county library. You can ask for it I remember when I was ah living in Seattle the city library there. 02:56.70 archpodnet Yeah, totally yeah. 03:05.43 archpodnet No, that's cool. Nice enter. 03:07.60 Bill White Definitely in Tucson the tucson public library system has historical archeology that you can you can ask them and they'll send them to your you don't even have to go downtown. You'll just send it to your local branch. 03:18.94 Andrew Yeah I would just agree and I would say that the the big meetings are the worst bang for buck of all of them. You know I wouldn't even bother but I will say you can get great ones if you look a little like one of my very favorite meetings is the Belize archeology symposium. 03:25.31 archpodnet Oh. 03:37.46 archpodnet You. 03:38.86 Andrew Which is international but it's small so you go to Belize you go to this local meeting the actual cost of getting in is completely reasonable and it's a fantastic meeting that I I love because it's everything I need and nothing I don't you know so I just want to give a shout out to those guys. They do a fantastic job. 03:46.16 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 03:53.32 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 03:58.51 Andrew And then I love the super local stuff too as we talked about before. Not only do I like the California meetings. They even do data sharing meetings that are even more local and smaller and those are fantastic ones. So. 04:10.00 Heather That's what I was just going to say data sharing. You can go to data sharing meetings and many times those have no costs at all and they're just a daytime. Yeah oh they don't have other well. 04:10.23 archpodnet Um, yeah. 04:16.45 Andrew You? Yep yeah. 04:17.30 Bill White Yeah, you're talking about from the Ca right? Yeah, they are. They're pretty cool. 04:18.39 archpodnet I've only heard of those in California. Yeah. 04:25.64 Heather So if you're in California. Highly recommend those. That's a good way to get your foot feet went. 04:26.63 archpodnet Yeah. 04:28.22 Bill White Yeah, but I mean as someone who's on the board of directors at the SH you know? um I I don't really know what to say because I've been an sha member for a long time probably 20 years now and um, you know i. 04:43.41 archpodnet Um. 04:45.31 Bill White I've published in historical Archeology I've collaborated with other people who are historical archeologists that are you know in the organization. Um I I mean some would say you get out of it What you put into it. However, I can tell you from experience it depends on who what you put in and where you put it and you know who you are doing the pudding with because you can put in a whole bunch of effort in some of these groups in some of these parts of the the major organizations and get absolutely nothing. In fact, be even more defeated about the purpose of archeology. 05:02.00 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:16.57 Bill White After interacting with these folks on these committees than than you did you know beforehand and the other thing too is like the organizations that I'm seeing are they're it's so conservative they are deeply entrenched in a way that they've been doing it for twenty or thirty years 05:20.36 archpodnet E. 05:32.81 Bill White If you think that given service to these bigger organizations is going to change anything in archeology like it'll take you thirty years to get even like minimal changes like to even to get to the point where you record your own 15 minute presentation that you created yourself and paid the organization to. 05:43.92 Heather I. 05:51.71 Bill White And then upload that to the organization's Youtube like that there is already like such a crazy concept that they they won't do it I think I can't even remember in Seattle Chris and I ah and doug recorded ah a panel. 05:58.48 archpodnet No no. 06:06.55 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:08.31 Bill White And it was like a huge thing to to do that and to get it on Youtube and that was like you know fifteen years ago man like it's crazy how these guys they refuse to do anything different the the diversity and the other things that I've been part of man. It's just like. 06:13.77 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 06:24.40 Bill White It's like pushing a boulder up the steepest mountain to get them to even think about changing anything with the Organization. You have a way better chance at the locals or just within your company alone of changing the work culture and you know moving towards diversity and inclusion than you do working with any of these ones in the bigger, the organization. The more dinosauric It's going to be. 06:46.42 archpodnet Well and I hadn't really intended to talk about this? Ah but it seems like it's coming up so Andrew mentioning the belize conference right? and you do see some of those more hyper focused. I guess meetings conference may be too big. A word for some of these things but meetings gatherings of people where they're they're focused on a single topic and sometimes depending on the size of your state that just might be your state conference like Nevada the Nevada conference is largely focused around you know, mining there's a lot of mining stuff ah historic mining that happens at the Nevada Archeological Association conference sure there's prehistoric stuff as well. But man is there's so much mining in the state. So and it ends up kind of being a focused discussion sometimes not intentionally, but sometimes it just happens that way. But that's why through. Kuluro the thing that we put together a little while ago Tristan and I the other cofounder of the network culturo' is the parent organization. We put over the top of this so we could do other stuff that was not necessarily archeology related but we had our first we called it a culturo share and it was a couple of weeks ago actually as we're recording this. It was in the beginning of November and it was hosted by Matilda Sebrecht who is one of the hosts of our other shows she lives in Germany she brought together 3 people and they each had about it was about. 08:06.43 archpodnet Thirty thirty five minutes apiece but she started out doing a middle mini interview with them. They had about a 10 minute presentation and then we had questions and answers from the people assembled and we had about 99 people signed up I think that was the most that we had at 1 time and it was great. They all had. They all had very different topics but it was all around the idea of ancient crafts and that's what we're doing quarterly and hopefully monthly at some point in the future when we can really get our. We get our crap together here. But I want to have these monthly things. It's a couple hours long and this one was about 3 hours but it was a couple hours long with Matilda's portion of it and. Just 3 different people and then for the third hour basically it was me basically interviewing the 3 of them and them asking each other questions as well. It was a real sharing event where they got to. They got to learn from each other talk to each other we got questions that we had that were voted on by the by the people that were listening. They could you know put their question in a thing and like upvote it in case, we didn't have time but it was just really engaging and we want to continue to do those things I'd love to have bill on talking you know certain topics in historical archeology I'd love to have anduron talking. You know, ah Belize bring on a couple other Belize scholars you know and and have a thing. And have it be different than a regular conference and that's what I wish the conferences really were you know? So yeah, but anyway, that's you like my other point with all this too is you know we're we're just complaining. We constantly complain about conferences out ineffective they are and with very few exceptions most of the people that. 09:22.25 Bill White Um I love it? Yeah yeah. 09:22.96 Andrew Yeah, yeah. 09:39.94 archpodnet Operate these conferences are also archeologists right? They've gotten there in some way or another So well my point is get up in the system and see if you can change it. Yeah and nothing's changed. 09:41.40 Bill White Well yeah, but yeah, but yeah I've been in there. Well I can just see where the clog is That's all there is to it. You know it's like you know well are there Tree roots growing in your. 09:54.60 archpodnet He Yeah yeah. 10:00.63 Bill White Pipes out front in your yard. Yeah I can see them through the the fiber optic thing I can see where they're at now. How are we going to get them out of there because you know at the at the beginning and end of the whole thing is money right? because the the organization they depend on this conference to. 10:01.30 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 10:10.10 archpodnet Sure. 10:16.70 Bill White Bring in the revenue to actually have the magazine and have any of the organization and they've been doing the conferences since the 70 s since the 60 s they have an idea. It's predictable. They know what's going to happen. They have a pretty good outlook on like the the finances of how this thing's going to unfold. 10:30.99 archpodnet 1 of you. 10:33.40 Bill White And they've been doing it for a long time and anything that could possibly like Havingulturo ah talk seriess that were free and well you know attended and well-vertisedd to me that would be something that builds the reputation of the organization and makes people want to go to the conference right. 10:48.64 archpodnet Yeah. 10:50.45 Bill White Because you see these three scholars they're talking. They're going to be there at the conference and so you have them kind of introduce like you know a conversation knowing that they're going to have a panel and that you can actually see this go further or you can see their you know like to me that's an advertisement that makes me want to see these scholars. 11:07.33 archpodnet Oh. 11:08.87 Bill White But that whole idea is scary because it'd be like given the thing away they think they're selling at the conference for free and so that turns into like this huge conversation. There's also all these ideas about like that it has to be these crazy Super well produced. 11:15.60 archpodnet Yeah. 11:25.75 Bill White Ah, um, recordings that if it's not professionally done. It's not good enough. It's not in these webinars that they're doing for these conferences. They're not professionally produced man like the stuff that's going on Youtube is not professionally produced. It's archeologists doing it themselves and it still gets thousands of views and so just. 11:32.78 archpodnet No, they definitely not. 11:43.12 Bill White Like being in there man is so hard to get any form of different idea whatsoever to happen like at all that you're just better off starting your own thing Chris I mean the society of black archeologists. We just started our own thing because you can't get anything done in any of these organizations and so going back to like what do you get out of it. 11:48.92 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12:01.91 Bill White You get a sweet magazine You get a chance to hang out with other archeologists. That's what you get out of it. 12:08.27 archpodnet Pretty much pretty much. Yeah and real quick before we get to Heather the the international aspect of it when it's completely virtual and everybody knows that yeah sure it was early on a Sunday morning because our hostess from Germany but our 3 presenters were from. Ah. I can't remember what somewhere in the midwest I think Tennessee um not the midwest so the east I think Tennessee and then another one was from Ireland and another one was in um, Israel that's where our 3 presenters were and people that were attending were from around the world I mean literally around the world. So it was ah it was a great little Sunday morning thing. Yeah. 12:37.89 Bill White That's that's awesome. 12:39.45 Heather Very cool, very cool I was just going to say that I think that if if which some of the comments that bill has made makes me think that they wouldn't do this but um, you know if if these. 12:43.40 archpodnet So. 12:56.30 Heather Boards you know for the associations were brave. Um, they would have an open panel of how do we make this conference better and really involve all the people that are attending and and really have and and not just like the business meeting but make it a panel. Ah, interesting panel and bring together. You know all these surveys that they send out nobody does them like people aren't really you know responding to them so like to actually have something that's Interesting. Um and and have an open concept where people can just start. 13:21.20 archpodnet Now. 13:34.74 Heather You know, throwing out ideas if there's enough out there I mean I always thought you know we could do it ourselves right and have our own panel but they may not approve it. You know, kind of would have I would think probably have to be their idea. 13:44.83 Bill White No I mean they they Heather they would approve it if you if you proposed it and did it and organized it yourself they would they would approve it because it fits into their existing system right. 13:54.32 Heather Okay. 13:59.52 Bill White If you try to do what Chris is doing something that takes you out of what's already known right into a zone where the the rest of the world quite frankly is already way ahead of anyway and but you know it would be it would be something that would take them away from what they've already known. That's what they're not going to do. 14:00.54 Heather Bright. 14:14.10 Heather Yeah, no I get I get that I'm trying to kind of go in the middle and try to see if if something these conferences are always going to be here. They're not going to disappear so you know how can we make them. 14:23.95 Bill White I I don't know about that I don't know about that because you know like I said the financial thing right? if people stop joining. So basically if none of the field techs see any value in the essay and it's all just professors and we're not having any professors and we're not having any graduate students. 14:38.70 Heather And. 14:43.77 Bill White Then who the hell is going to be a member of the essay anymore right? They're not getting any value out of it so people just stop going to it and if that happens then there won't be conferences. 14:52.69 Heather Yeah I guess that I just I'm I could see yeah I could see that happening long term like but a lot has to happen before then and I don't know I'm not willing to completely give up on them because I do think there are certain aspects that happen at the conferences that. 14:52.84 archpodnet Yeah. 15:01.56 archpodnet Um, well. 15:12.84 Heather Cannot happen on an online forum you just there's something you can't replace with a eye to eye you know so talking to people right in front of you. You just can't replace that you can't replace being having a conversation then Joe and and bill come walking up and hey you know you just. 15:15.46 Andrew Yeah, yeah. 15:22.19 Andrew Yeah. 15:30.30 Bill White So yeah. 15:31.55 Andrew Yeah. 15:32.61 Heather You can't replace that and so I do think for that purpose. The conferences are are you know alone are very useful. 15:38.43 archpodnet Know Well I'll just leave you guys with one thing because things are definitely changing in that sort of attitude right? and we're all in the attitude of yes we agree with that I do enjoy face to face interactions as well. Although there's. 15:38.97 Bill White Yeah, yeah. 15:39.22 Andrew I Do agree with that. Totally. 15:56.32 archpodnet Host there's people I know on this network I've been working with for over ten years that I've never physically met before still and yet we still manage to accomplish a lot of things get a lot of stuff done and and keep things moving forward but the new generation of people that's coming up. Um, you know I know some people in there in their early 20 s and. 16:05.11 Heather I agree. 16:15.97 archpodnet They never make phone calls anymore to their people. They know they do Facetime. They love the video calls things like that people are used to Zoom we we proved for 2 years that you could actually get business done on zoome it was a paid in the ass but we proved that you could do it. 16:19.25 Bill White Yeah, yeah. 16:26.19 Bill White Yeah, yeah. 16:26.57 Heather You you can you can I agree I agree Chris but I'll tell you I've seen the ugly side of Zoom too I've seen people turn into monsters at at work because there's something different about the personal interaction. 16:34.10 Bill White Yeah. 16:36.34 archpodnet Ah, yeah for sure Heather we we've and you're you're implying that the essay is for the last few years has gone swimmingly well right. 16:45.93 Heather Yeah. 16:48.82 Bill White Yeah, but. 16:50.87 Heather No oh of course, not no no no I'm not I just saying it can we need to have a combination of both. We can't go one or the other because if we go I'm telling you I just I've seen it I lived it Andrew and I have talked about it offline too I'm telling you off it. 16:51.22 archpodnet No, it hasn't right like like shit still happens. 16:56.17 Bill White Um, yeah. 16:56.73 archpodnet Yeah, it's true. 17:04.95 Andrew Yes, yes. 17:09.54 Heather What it has done to the interpersonal skills of people in the workplace is been tragic and yeah. 17:14.38 Bill White Yeah, and as someone who I feel I I absolutely agree with you and I think that we can actually make the conferences better and drum up more support and interest in the professional organizations if we mix the 2 17:14.73 Andrew So true. 17:15.20 archpodnet Right? might. 17:27.56 Heather Yes, yes, agreed. Yes. 17:28.10 archpodnet Um, yeah. 17:30.65 Andrew Yeah, totally. 17:31.49 Bill White Formats right? if we have much more you know? ah ah, some forum like basically if you just use the online thing as the advertisement for the big getting together right? The big meeting like that to me is the the strategy right? that you build up interest throughout the entire year. 17:31.50 archpodnet Right. 17:40.58 Heather Yes. 17:49.92 Bill White You know you give teasers of what's going to be there and then you deliver when they get there then it actually turns into something like you got all the networking. Everyone's together in the same place you're sharing ideas and all that stuff. Plus you're actually excited to go there because you've already seen several different things and when we get together. We're going to work together on this one thing and. 17:52.90 Heather Yes. 18:08.54 Bill White Works out because we're all 8 of us are in the same room right? Like we've all worked across the year now we're all going to be in the same room. We're going to share. We're going to work together through this thing that we've been thinking about all year and now it turns into this different kind of thing. You've got the traditional presentation. You've got the. 18:09.33 Heather Exactly. 18:10.32 Andrew Are. 18:10.45 archpodnet Yeah. 18:25.14 Bill White Thing that Andrew was talking about you've got the information center thing. That's all together and you've got more people than ever before because they've now folks who are on the fringe on the fence about coming well all their people are going to be there and they don't want to miss this so they're going to go all the way to Portugal. Yeah yeah. 18:38.90 Heather Um, it turns into a true think tank and that's what these conferences should be. They should be think tanks but they're not yeah. 18:44.91 Bill White Ah, well I wish they were and. 18:45.26 archpodnet And that's that is the 1 last thing I'll say before we end here too is that's what that's what I was trying to lead towards even with this culuro share thing I there's no networking with the cultureuluro sheri only have 4 people on the screen at a time people are having a chat in the comments. But that's not networking right? It was a little bit. Actually we put some people together which was kind of cool. 19:00.47 Heather Right. 19:05.14 archpodnet But the conferences need to understand what they're for when you ask anybody why they go. It's not to present a paper and it's not to listen to a paper either. It's to go there and network and talk to other people that they don't see very often. So these big conferences should acknowledge that everybody's showing up have more parties more workshops and more. 19:06.88 Heather Um, yes, yes. 19:24.79 archpodnet Smaller get togethers with people that are interested in similar topics so they can actually get something done and benefit from being in the same room together. You should never go to a conference to present a 15 minute paper to 4 people. That's just stupid you know and those 4 people. 19:34.60 Heather Right? yep. 19:40.00 archpodnet Already know what you're going to say because they're probably work with you and they probably are in the same industry. You're not telling anybody anything. They don't know so anyway sure. 19:41.65 Heather Yeah, well people that you know lot of people do that to pose I mean I've I've seen oh my gosh I've I've seen people post on whatever social media. Oh I just gave it was well received I'm like what by 2 people I mean but of course they never. 19:45.87 Bill White Yeah, yeah, well yeah, yeah, yeah, the social media? Yeah, yeah. 19:58.22 archpodnet Um, they you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. 20:00.48 Heather They never show the picture from the back of the room with everybody filled right? but. 20:05.72 Bill White Social media thing. Anyway, you know like that thing gets kind of out of control as we all know and so it's all performative acting that you're using this platform to send a message right? so. 20:08.61 Heather Um, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes yeah. 20:12.96 Andrew Right. 20:15.14 archpodnet It is. 20:20.30 archpodnet All right? Well with that note go sign up for the SHs if you haven't already. It's in a week and go sign sign up for the yeah there you go there, you go maybe you're listening to this on the plane to Portugal. Um. 20:25.65 Bill White I'll be there come come meet me I'll hang out I'll be I'll actually be there. We can have a think tank together in in portugal come fine. It'll help you sleep I Know that. 20:35.28 archpodnet And and then the essays they they still have the essays are in Portland I believe they still have sign-ups for that. So if you want to go to that and then there's other ones. Well there you go bill. Um, that's that's. 20:41.73 Heather Yep. 20:42.59 Bill White I'll be there too. Yeah I'm going to mall I'll be all over I'm going to SC too it's in Oakland so it's like touching cal I'll be there who we yep? Ah, ah. 20:49.78 Heather Yep. 20:49.93 archpodnet That's your ah, that's your state funded berkeley money right? there put in a good use californians all right? So which means Andrew Andrew won't be there because they don't put money into the community colleges. So all right? So ah. 21:00.83 Andrew Ah, no, no, no if there's a ton of massage if the if there's ego massage and they tell me I'm right all the time I'm there for sure. 21:02.19 Bill White He'll be there. He'll be in Oakland ah, ah, ah. 21:09.51 archpodnet Nice, nice, all right guys. Well thank you for ah for a good 2022 we had a lot of lot of fun episodes this year and looking forward to more great stuff in 2023 and with that we'll see you guys in a couple of weeks. All right? Let me do this rolling for the outro. 21:23.73 Heather Goodbye everybody out I'm sorry. 21:25.60 archpodnet No, not yet see that's 1 thing you guys were doing in the last two you guys just rolled straight into the outro and I have to like either cut that or like this I'm just saying. 21:29.45 Bill White Um, ah. 21:32.19 Heather No, why you have to show up Chris. Ah. 21:37.51 archpodnet This little segment that we're about to record it actually goes at the end of the regular outro stuff so it fits That's why I say the same thing. Okay trust me though I mean I'll take that over like you know I Really appreciate you guys just getting it done. Yeah yeah. 21:37.65 Bill White Ah, okay, okay. 21:39.55 Heather Okay, I'm sorry my hand this officially slapped. 21:42.47 Andrew Um, yeah. 21:51.80 Bill White The dug. 21:51.98 Heather 30 seconds 21:56.11 archpodnet No, no, no trust me though you guys handled it the last 2 episodes because I just like my scheduling just wouldn't allow it and it was awesome. Yeah, so all right here we go thanks to everyone for joining me this week thanks also to the listeners for tuning in and we'll see you in the field goodbye. 22:02.17 Heather I'm just teasing you Chris. 22:02.80 Bill White Ah. 22:09.66 Bill White By. 22:11.67 Heather Happy New year 22:13.69 Andrew See you guys next time. 22:18.71 archpodnet Ah, all right.