00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is Andrew in California Doug in Scotland and heather also in California. 00:04.24 Andrew Hey everyone? how's it going. 00:09.50 Doug Hi everyone. 00:14.26 Heather Hi everyone. 00:17.24 archpodnet Bill is currently gallanting around Spain on his european winter tour 2022 so we will not be hearing from him today just made me think I wonder if he's coming home before he just goes to portugal for the s scjs or is his intent to stay out there but I don't really know. But either way. Bill is going to portugal lisbon for the first week of january to go to the sh a society for historical archeology meetings and he will be given us either a report afterwards on his experiences there. Or or both yeah he might be doing some interviews there too. So look forward to that if you are going to the Shs and you're in crm look bill up. He's probably the only like six foot 5 black man there. So he's not too hard to find and and if you can't see him. 01:00.27 Heather With a wonderful voice exactly yes. 01:04.80 archpodnet Exactly if you can't see him just listen for the deep. Ah the deep tones of Bill white and ah, you will pick him out in any room he stay stands out in this crowd and in lots of good ways. So all right? So this is the. End of the year episode if you're listening to this way into the future and you're just catching up on the back catalog. We appreciate that. But if you're listening to this in real time this episode drops between Christmas and New Year's of 2022 and so we don't get a lot of play usually around that time because people aren't focusing on listening to podcasts and you know we want to keep it a little bit light. And and just keep a little bit short too. This first segment though I just wanted to bring up something real quick and get your guys' opinions on it and and you know just kind of thoughts and and how to handle things I'm one of the admins of the archaeo field text group on Facebook and it's pretty active group probably 1 of the most active groups for. Definitely serum our archeology field technicians and and crew chiefs and it probably if not the most active group. It's at least to the most active one I'm aware of if there's another one I'm not in the group. So if there are let me know I'd love to join those but I'm an admin in that group because I've been in there a long time. There's 3 of us and sometimes we get. Reported comments and I just wanted to comment in general on this because it's happened a couple times in the last few months where you get a post that kind of blows up and it gets lots of comments and anytime a post gets lots of comments on anywhere on Facebook there's going to be somebody that comes in and comes in a little hot with their opinions and maybe just you know. 02:35.12 archpodnet Can't ah can't keep control over their fingers a little bit and some other people may get offended by some of the things that they're saying well I just wanted to say in general and maybe you guys are admins of other groups or maybe you've reported comments in other groups I want to see how you would feel about this if you were either a the reporter or commenter or the. Admin who has to deal with this but generally when I look at something unless it's just like outright hate speech and nobody else is bothered to report it yet. It's usually not the case if it's like hate speech then more than a few people are going to report this. But if it's outright like hate speech then we usually we know none of us make a executive decision. We talk as 3 different people. Who have different experiences. There's 2 guys. Um, one woman and we're all in sierra archeology at various levels and we've all been in for at least ten or fifteen years so we have some experience and we make a group decision on what to do about the reported comments. We do that for every decision regarding the group right? So no, no one of us is the the leader there isn't a leader. So we have reported comments and generally I look at the comment and I say okay has anybody else reported this if this post has you know dozens if not hundreds of comments and then you know lots of likes and follows or whatever the case may be and only 1 person is reporting a handful of comments I might just look at that and say you know what. Might just be offending you which I'm sorry about that. But I've got to let the group kind of decide what to do with this person and that's generally where I fall on things I'm a little less trigger happy on deleting or reporting comments and if I do want to delete a comment I'll suggest that we private message the person who made the comment to begin with and give them a chance to delete it first. Okay. 04:10.85 archpodnet Ah, give them a chance to delete it before we delete their comments because it actually doesn't look too good for their Facebook profile if you're reporting if you're deleting their reported comments all the time. Um, so give them a chance to back off or you know state their case or say it in a little better or even apologize for that matter if they think it's warranted but I'm kind of along the lines of let the community decide. 04:29.97 archpodnet You know again, unless it's outright like hate speech and it's damaging to somebody and it's obvious that that's the case. But if it's a little ambiguous or they just came in a little hot I just would rather let the community decide. What do you guys? think about that. 04:42.66 Heather I agree with you I think um, you know just looking at it from a anthropological Perspective. You know we have our cultures have you know, certain expectations and different groups are have different expectations but the way that people. Find out that they are outside. They're being an outlier. They're saying something that is outside what is typically you know understood as acceptable is for them to say that and be told that that's not okay and I think. 05:14.94 archpodnet Um. 05:18.65 Heather That you know people can be offended and that's okay, I'm not saying that it's good for somebody. Well actually I think I think that being offended when you're being when you have that initial reaction this is an opportunity if you're the person who's offended. Understand Okay, why? Why am I ah offended and you know it helps you create your own perspective on life right? And where do you sit in the culture within which you're interacting and to remove everything that is offensive right. 05:44.30 archpodnet Um. 05:56.65 Heather What's offensive to me I mean even in my marriage. What's offensive to me My husband's like what the heck. Why did why? why is that offensive to you. You know is is does it mean. It's automatically wrong and maybe even if it is wrong Sometimes people. 05:59.99 archpodnet Right? ah. 06:13.59 Heather In life need to be told we're giving people an opportunity when they're being free and they're talking right? and even if they're doing it. Um in malicious manner Sometimes people need to be told to shut up sometimes instead of just being deleted right now being told like you know what? that's not cool and. 06:24.87 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 06:32.41 Heather You know I know we're not children. We're adults but we still have parts of us that need that kind of like those bumpers in life and when you're on a space like that and people you know we all know people act differently on social media sometimes somebody needs a good like pop in the nose. 06:38.68 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 06:51.50 Heather Say you know what? that's not cool and that's not acceptable in this group and if you want to talk like that and go somewhere else but they so you still need to be you still need to be I don't know I I do not like the censorship because I think what it does is it cleans everything up. 06:51.26 archpodnet See what. 07:10.79 Heather And then when you have you see something. You don't agree with that allows you to solidify your your own beliefs right? Or maybe you now have seen another perspective. Let's say somebody says something that's offensive to you and then you comment back and say you know what? dude that's not cool. 07:16.10 archpodnet I yeah. 07:23.59 archpodnet Moment. 07:28.90 Heather And then the other person says well hold on a second. That's not really what I was saying this is what I was saying right? if we have some kind of a normal dialogue right? We're actually discussing it and then it both people have a better understanding at the end then I think that that's so much more valuable. 07:41.14 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 07:46.99 Heather Then just saying oh delete delete delete to the point where if you were to do that and you had 3 people that have different perspectives you already said that you if you were to do that across the board. You'd have like such a clean like nothing. It wouldn't be interesting to read. 08:01.63 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, you're right? Yeah Doug what's your thoughts on this. 08:04.86 Heather Yeah, yeah, ah. 08:12.80 Doug Ah I think we've It's the the position is probably so vague that it's It's hard to have a ah comment. But in general I'd say um I can think of areas where that shouldn't be there. Um, so like especially if you if you're ah in a um, ah minority group will that be you know any sort of you know, ethnic Minority Sexuality Gender Um, you know. 08:38.99 archpodnet Right. 08:44.73 Doug Wherever wherever it is if if if you happen to be in that minority group. Um, you're probably going to get real tired. Not you're probably not. You are going to be real tired of people saying stupid shit all the time. Um, and. 08:56.35 archpodnet So yeah. 09:02.64 Doug It's it's also one of those things where like um, somewhat to um, Heather's point of like um and again I don't think Heather was thinking about this when she was saying this and whatnot but like a lot of times those conversations don't go with like oh hey. Um I think your um perspective is is is wrong and then that there's that nice exchange of information and back and forth. That's not how that goes like I've been in um, ah you know archeology Facebook groups in the U K and then it suddenly turns into like the fucking hitler youth. Um, about my ah, my migrants and and it doesn't matter like so I lived through this and I have to like I went through what they call the hostile environment. It costs us tens of thousands of pounds nights of sleep of no sleep. It was horrendous and I know. 09:52.48 archpodnet And. 09:58.93 archpodnet Yeah. 10:01.45 Doug I know the laws inside and out and I could do I did I would do you know good like Facebook monologues of like you know, 5060700 words explaining that like no these people have got the laws wrong. We aren't coming to steal your jobs yada yada it doesn't make any difference and. Like to be honest I don't think like again, sorry Heather out mean to pick on on what you said, but I think a lot of people are their honest selves on social media and a lot of people are honestly lazy like when it comes down to it like a lot of people will say stupid and arrogant or. 10:21.20 archpodnet Ah. 10:40.80 Doug Ignorant or just downright being an asshole and honestly it shouldn't be on the people they're being an ass to asshole to to educate them. It's because those people are too lazy and and 98% of the time I Found. They're too lazy to ever change as Well. They're not going to go out and educate themselves about like and you can pick anything you can pick any any you know the people who are not going to go out there and educate themselves about how white black people are not Horrible. You know criminals or wherever they believe they're not going to educate. 11:01.41 archpodnet Themselves about like sure anything. 11:15.99 archpodnet Ah, so. 11:16.12 Doug Themselves about how like homosexuality is not a sin Um, all this sort of thing like you can pick whatever you want? Um, so where I'm going with this is like if you're in that target group and like people I do see it and it always jumps back with like oh we're just going to let you know. Free speech happened and stuff but like it gets super super old having to have the same conversation year after year with a new idiot who comes in who won't spend the time to educate themselves. They won't They won't do it So you have to um. It just becomes exhausting. You know what I pull out of those groups like and I think that's what actually what you're going to see is you won't see it because there's not going to be a big Blowup where someone says I quit and they're not going to message you and say this is the reason I'm leaving this group. They're just going to leave that group and eventually if you let a lot of that stuff fly. Um, you're basically going to have a bunch of sort of not nice people in that group because all the other people have been chased away because it was it was meant to be an educational moment but people got really sick of having to educate people who won't be educated um sorry that was a pretty long rant but like. 12:24.26 archpodnet Right? so. 12:28.92 Heather Yeah I don't and. 12:32.27 Doug Ah, my end I I'm I mean it's tough and so that's and those are very specific. Yeah well those are very. 12:34.87 Heather Where do you?? where do you stop it though, but where do you stop it and and and I don't I mean to me I'm not saying that people are being dishonest I'm saying people talk differently on social media. There's more many people when they're face to face are not going to say the same things. I Mean it's just known. They're not going to say the same things that they say on social media. That's what I'm saying is when people are communicating to communicate differently on social media and they could be very honest. It's just maybe too honest, um because it's easier to do it behind a keyboard right? But I I Just think where do you. 13:07.36 archpodnet Maybe you want ah because it's easier. 13:12.77 Heather Where do you stop with it right? that then that was my main point where do you stop with the censorship because there may be things that that I don't like like I think I think that every in societies we're focusing you know it kind of it just moves who we decide to be of. Not abuse next but who do we so decide to marginalize Next you know it's just the nature of society it shifts right? Eighteen hundreds it was Irish went through a lot of I mean horrible things in this country. The Irish did right? That's not the same thing now. 13:38.60 archpodnet Yeah, it's irish. 13:48.64 archpodnet Ah, right now. 13:49.17 Heather Right now Now we're just marginalized as ah, you know, drunk Happy fun people right? But you know it's it it shifts So exactly when when do you stop it and what offends me doesn't offend I Do think that there are certain things that just cannot be allowed but to. 13:54.55 archpodnet Sure. 14:08.00 Heather Have it. There's a difference between actual really hurtful stuff and somebody just offended because the person didn't say it exactly how they thought they should say it and to me a lot of times that's where people are offended. 14:24.40 archpodnet Andrew. 14:25.50 Heather Andrew has something to say okay. 14:25.78 Andrew Okay, I just think it's important to remember in all this that all social media platforms are just the asshole of the world. You know what? I mean like it's all fake it all as Heather was saying it all brings out sort of the worst in people they would never say that stuff to you in person. 14:37.16 Heather All agreed. Whatever. 14:45.10 Andrew For whatever reason they just feel duty bound to be horrendous dicks. Um, but it's funny. Some of us are like that and some of us are not I'm not here to tout how Highfalutin I am but I've never downvoted a video in my life I've never made a negative comment in my life on any of those platforms. 14:56.77 archpodnet We're downloaded a video but like made a negative comment. 14:57.30 Heather Like I never made in my light. Yep. 15:02.58 Andrew If there's something I Really don't like I just change the channel remember that you know, but if and if you're trying to be an administrator in any social media platform. You're literally a referee in a mud wrestling match. You know, like oh who's winning. Oh I don't know you know it's just all crap. It's all horrible for us. 15:04.50 Heather I Just changed right? You know, but. 15:13.52 Heather Hey you know like. 15:14.60 archpodnet My rest yeah winning. 15:21.49 Andrew And I know I sound like Grandma but that's that's the truth and I think many of us have experienced it I just recently had my um my my Gram Hancock video which is at 11000 views my friends I know and dude but read the comments they are like. 15:35.19 Heather Wow You believe. 15:35.37 archpodnet Oh my God ah. 15:40.75 Andrew All negative and and I have a whole I explain it actually in the pseudo archeology podcast here. My experience with that. But basically they're all negative and it's just like Doug is saying you get this, you get the same thing over and over and over and it's like you didn't read the previous comments there. He said that 4000 times the same negative crap. 15:46.40 archpodnet Like yeah. 16:00.64 Andrew And I just deal with it through humor I just like you know, add a humorous post but in terms of being an admin in that good luck I mean you've lost before you've begun anyway, that's my that's my sort of ยข2 on that. 16:10.52 archpodnet That final thoughts dog. 16:16.70 Doug Ah, yeah, well I think ah Andrew what Andrew did does is exactly what other people do is Andrew just tunes out um on that stuff I think that's what's going to happen and when you are running community. It's going to come down to. 16:26.17 archpodnet Ah. 16:34.42 Doug There is not any sort of like let the community decide. Um, because it's actually it's it's on you, you're well you and the three admins or 2 other admins like um, you you end up owning it and it it depends. Basically you set the tone. Um and I think that's. What a lot of people I would rather you probably should be a bit more honest and just say this is the tone we're setting and this is what we accept and what we don't um and then people will accept it or not but like that whole tossing it and that. 16:54.48 archpodnet That's what. 17:10.84 Doug Comes with a lot of like as Andrew said you're basically damned the moment you become an admin like Chris there's there's no winning. Um, when you do that but you do basically have to make that decision and tossing it to the you know the crowd or the the community to to decide. You're going to. 17:16.63 archpodnet Ah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. 17:30.56 Doug Quickly end up with like a community of psychopaths. Um, like like that's that's how that goes Yeah, but that ah. 17:34.65 archpodnet Ah, isn't that Twitter. 17:36.37 Andrew Yeah, yeah I I just. 17:36.49 Heather Like what? what?? what? But why but look at this in the real world look at this in the you're at a party and there's a jerk I was actually recently at a party and this guy was being a complete jerk and he's and I looked at him and I assessed him up and down I'm like you know what. You're I'm not gonna get anywhere with you. I'm not gonna I'm not even gonna waste my time with you. So I turn around and I leave right? I don't lead the party but I leave him and eventually people do that and the persons sitting in the corner realizing you know what nobody wants to play with me. So Maybe either either I'm just gonna leave or eventually. 17:54.42 archpodnet Anywhere always. 18:05.74 archpodnet Yeah, so. 18:13.16 Heather I'll start realizing you know what this isn't this isn't cool and I know social media is different. But if we keep like trying to clean and scrub everything then there's no national dialogue and I understand like Doug if you're saying there's certain thing I guess it maybe because we're not discussing. What's the percent like how how often would you actually delete a comment and so maybe if we were to say maybe we'd be more aligned on our perspective on this but to me I'm getting like just seeing people complain and and they want everything deleted except for. What aligns with what they believe. That's not right and and to them if you don't believe the way they believe then they want every then they want you removed and that's just just not playing well with ah with that with others and that does not encourage a well-rounded society. It just doesn't. 19:01.33 archpodnet Yeah, and that just not. 19:09.82 archpodnet So yeah Andrew I. 19:09.82 Heather So you know yeah. 19:13.86 Andrew I I I was just gonna sort of I was gonna try and bring it together and agree with everyone. Um, but I would say I do want to just agree on Doug's point first about this sort of. Yeah, the psychopath aspect or whatever it sounded extreme. When Doug said it but that is totally my experience where people I guess like me, you know, vaguely relaxed, average people go away and you do have this psycho on psycho you know diatribe which is worthless for everyone. So I just wanted to you know say like yeah, Doug. 19:29.63 archpodnet Where yeah, like vaguely. 19:41.63 Heather But then you have a psycho party and the cycle party can stay with the psycho party. Yeah, okay. 19:45.22 Andrew Yeah, but yeah, but then it's just worthless and it's just sort of it cheapening everything. It's I think we're really talking about the natural ebb and flow of the awfulness which is social media right. 19:55.27 Heather Yes, yeah I mean it's different. It's different than than a party where you know now it's just yeah. 20:02.69 Andrew Right. 20:04.10 archpodnet Doug. 20:04.80 Doug I I would I would just add like Heather I think you have a much higher opinion of humanity than I do because if that person like in my experience if that person's suddenly alone at that party. They're not going to realize they're doing something wrong. They're just going to go butt into like a group of other people. Um and force their views upon them or their their thoughts or their rants. 20:23.49 archpodnet People. Yeah, that force there. 20:27.30 Heather No, but eventually eventually they're going to be by themselves. It might take a little longer I'm just I honestly like I'm 51 years old I've never seen more censorship in my life than in this time period of our society and I see more ugliness. 20:32.80 archpodnet So yeah, honestly. 20:42.89 archpodnet And. 20:46.11 Heather And that to me just isn't. 20:49.19 Doug Oh i' a among when we come back from the break I'm ah I'm ah I ah have I ah have to like disagree from a factual point on that. 20:56.31 Heather Well no I mean obviously okay, you want to take it to you know Um, you know all the issues that we've had you know many many years ago I'm talking about just interaction of everyday people I'm not talking about like you know. All the civil rights issues and and everything the ugliness of people I'm talking about honestly, you're right you and I do have a different perspective on life I think I think generally people are good I really do I think you have some really rotten ugly horrible ugly people. But I think that it definitely dilutes. The idea of ugliness and hate when everything somebody says could say something accidental is hate speech it detracts from the actual hate speech and that is a disservice because we need to. We really need to jump on true hate speech and when you say that everything is hate speech where somebody says something accidentally or somebody says something because they're just not aware. Okay, and that's hate speech now. We've diluted the idea of hate speech and that's my point. 22:03.90 archpodnet They're just yeah yeah speech now we. 22:10.26 Heather And I do think that generally people are well-meaning good people that you know what? sometimes they just don't have the life experience yet and they needed explained to them and that's my point. 22:21.26 archpodnet Well and I I think what I think more to your point heather too. This has to do solely with the fact that the internet exists now and people are bolder with their fingers than they are with their mouths and it's you know they're they're more willing we yeah well yeah, that too. Um. 22:29.89 Heather Yes, um, they're cowards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 22:36.98 archpodnet And I would love to see a sketch comedy show and I wouldn't doubt if Saturday live or somebody's already done this but a sketch comedy show where people are at a party and there's like 1 or a couple people sitting in the corner and if you're just sitting there having a conversation with somebody. Maybe there's a little group of 3 or 4 people and somebody says something you don't like you walk over to the people in the corner you say I'm reporting their comments right now. And do it in real-time and see how absurd it is. You know what? I mean like we're only doing it in Facebook groups. We don't do it in interactions with other people generally I mean if it gets real bad. You call the police or you know you talk to their supervisor or something but you know, but and that's the the social media version of that is it takes way less to invoke that sort of response. So. 22:56.83 Heather Right. 23:12.64 Heather Right. 23:15.24 archpodnet All right? Well this has been a really long segment. We're going to hopefully shorten the other two I always say that and then it never happens and we end up with an hour long show but this will probably end up being short of segment because I'm going to edit all of your comments down to something that fits my narrative. We'll be back in a minute. 23:27.66 Heather That I love it.