00:02.44 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone we had a good preshow. So we're all, we're all jazzed up for this but me turn my mic down just a little bit ah joining me today is Heather in Southern California 00:09.24 Heather Um, a. 00:09.89 Andrew Harsh. 00:14.00 Andrew Hey guys, what's up it. It cut right? there and I guess. 00:16.72 archpodnet Um, that was Heather in Southern California that was supposed to. 00:18.11 Heather You went out, you went out. We couldn't hear your hi everybody. 00:24.21 archpodnet Ah, ah, all right? and then Andrew also in Southern California and Doug over in Scotland and yeah I'll cut it out goodbye everyone that's it for Doug. 00:27.81 Andrew Hey guys, how's it going? yeah. 00:31.88 Heather He's getting double air time Chris that's not fair. Um. 00:35.30 Doug Goodbye. Everyone. 00:39.85 archpodnet I swear we haven't been drinking. It's eight o'clock in the morning here on the on the ah west coast of the United States Doug may have been but we we definitely I know right? So and I'm actually in the central coast in one of our favorite areas san Luis Obispo California it's it's just. 00:45.90 Andrew Yeah. 00:45.97 Doug Um, yeah, dude it's it's like almost five here. So. 00:57.79 archpodnet I know it's awesome up here anytime. It's hot anywhere else. It's like 65 here and it's just I don't know it's amazing I love the area we did some wine tasting in the Edna Valley region yesterday and just some some really good stuff and yeah, it's ah it's a fun place to be but you know it's not a fun place to be sometimes Facebook and. 01:00.67 Heather Yeah. 01:03.60 Andrew Yep. 01:17.21 Heather Um, a. 01:17.64 archpodnet Want to talk about this because we'll get to the topic for today which is Heather's topic and and she saw a post in one of the groups that we reference all the time and we'll talk about it here but in in discussing this in the pre-show Doug actually mentioned that he's kind of left Facebook and we're not left. He's still there but but but stopped kind of paying attention to it. And paying attention to things like archaeo field text because of some of the comments and and a little bit of the toxicity that can happen in the comments sections and even in some of the posts to be honest, but a lot of the posts that are bad, get moderated and in fact, some of the comments get moderated I was mentioning I'm ah a moderator of the archae field text group on Facebook and if you're not part of that. You can join it I will tell you right now if you answer the 3 questions which are very simple. You'll get in right away if you don't answer the questions I have to moderate you or 1 of the other two moderators and if I look at your Facebook profile and it's completely locked down and I can't even tell you're an archeologist then I hit the decline button and you don't come in if you. Bring somebody else in and you recommend them to the group if they don't see that and then go answer the questions I have to do the same thing and go see if they're actually an archeologist by their Facebook profile. Most people have that lockdown and rightly so probably. But it means I can't let you in so I'm just I'm just saying right there if you want to come in answer the questions and it lets you in right away you don't have to be moderated. But the point is there's a lot of stuff over there. That's total garbage right? and it's not anybody's fault. It's just how people are and I feel like it's the responsibility of people who are I don't know who've been doing this for a little while who have some insight to to really kind of cut through the crap over there. 02:49.85 archpodnet And help people out because that's what they're ultimately asking for I mean people mostly come in there and say I'm struggling with this or I want this and you're going to get 85 comments and 40 them are going to be jackass old people that are just like or cynical people that are just like oh why are you even in this field you should get out. You know you should go. You know work at Target they're going to say stuff like that and I feel like it's the responsibility of everybody else to say no I mean come on this is this is the way it is here's some good resources. There's actually cool people here and and this is ah this is a good thing to do with your life you know and because if if all the people who actually think that way get out of it. The. 2500 plus members that are over in that group are are just going to have no support I mean they're literally just going to have no support and I don't think that's good for the world either right? If we want more people in this field and we want them to you know succeed then that's the place where they're at. There's no other social media venue where they're doing that kind of thing. Literally none maybe mastodon. But who knows about Mastodon. It's too chaotic over there maybe Twitter, but it's also chaotic over there. It's literally no other social media platform aside from maybe Linkedin which also nobody's using like this where you can have a group and you can ask a question of your peers and get these sorts of responses and answers because I mean some of them are really good. So I don't know I had to kind of soapbox that just a little bit because Doug I think you have valuable insights to tell to people and if you could just cut through the Bs and ignore the acidic comments that are over there and just put down your own insights and link to some of your great blog posts and some of the. 04:23.54 archpodnet The videos up on recording archeology and some of the resources that you have that could cut through some of the shit and don't you think. 04:31.45 Doug Well so this is a slightly different context than what we were discussing like pre pre ah pre podcast. So I'm I'm slightly torn in that like I I do appreciate. 04:38.18 archpodnet Ah, not I mean not really though. 04:47.67 Doug Some people go there to um, ask questions. Um, but I do find that and this is you know UK and north american archeology groups like. 05:04.54 Doug There's just like ah a horrendous amount of of stuff out there. That's it's quite a waste of time and also like some of those questions people like could have dropped that into Google first and got like. A bunch of resources that would have answered their question in fact of like most of most of what I hate and this is not everything that's on there probably like 95% of it now I'll say like 90% of it could just been simply answered by googling instead of like. Trying to you know, take up other people's time and it's it's the same and a lot of times. It's the same questions you know year after year you see the same ones come up. Um and like the same answers. 05:46.17 archpodnet Sure. 05:59.17 Doug Which is usually like hey have you heard of Chris Webster's book on like how to survive um archeology go check it out. There's a whole chapter on what you're asking about. Um. 06:06.39 archpodnet Nobody's ever said that literally that post has never happened. Ah. 06:12.74 Doug Ah, but it yeah, it's happened Chris you're trying to yeah man. Yeah, so like there's there's stuff like that and then I just like the worst is like. 06:13.49 Heather That's not true I've seen that I've seen it from bill at least Bill's done it I've seen Phil do it? yeah. 06:15.53 archpodnet Oh how? maybe? ah yeah yeah. 06:29.45 Doug Probably the other five ten percent is is just people with like put out opinions and they're the worst informed opinions ever like it's just such a such a time sink and that like I'm just thinking of stuff I've had to like go and correct. It'll be like. 06:37.35 Heather Here. 06:49.15 Doug Yo xenophobic racist stuff on like archaeologists getting um visas the work in a country and like someone will go off for a rant about like how horrible it is. They're using it to keep keep jobs down. You know, keep wages down yada yada and you're like so you end up spending like 2 hours deep 07:05.74 archpodnet Ah. 07:07.61 Heather A. 07:08.34 Doug Bunking this and this closed group that honestly if the person had just like done even the most basic of research basic like I'm sorry I'm exasperated on like how how like I'm pretty sure everyone like survived university. Googling things like how they couldn't just like Google before you talk I don't know Google before you post should be like a rule on like all those groups I just that that's where I hate like I've I've dropped off because it's it's the same thing. It's and it also it gives the same. 07:30.83 Heather New who well. 07:33.84 archpodnet Um, yeah. 07:44.99 Doug Same level of voice and I'm not saying like this is there's tradeoffs on this but like the stupidest voice has the same reach probably actually because of algorithms the stupidest most ignorant, most hateful voice will have 10 times 20 times the reach then. The person who might actually be an expert in whatever this question is or the person who actually like went and spent 2 minutes googling it or like have information and that's it's who I just hate is like um, almost all those groups just turn into like if you see any of the posted in your feeds or anything it's because it's turned into some sort of. Hate fest because someone said something really really stupid and then the algorithm amplifies it and then lots of people. Ah ah say equally stupid things on it. Um, and I don't it's just I find it as a time waste there you go Chris that's that's I just it's a time sink of like my time. 08:36.27 archpodnet Okay. 08:38.85 Andrew Ah. 08:43.40 archpodnet All right. 08:43.40 Doug When 90% of it could have been fixed with Google. 08:46.40 Andrew Yeah, watch this Chris guess what everyone record this at this moment I'm going to agree with Doug a hundred percent oh yeah did I know I know isn't it where. 08:48.71 archpodnet And. 08:59.23 Doug Um, it hurts us it and your it hurts. There's a little pain in your heart. 08:59.77 Heather Um, a. 09:04.41 Andrew It does it does I think I might be having a heart attack but I'm not sure if we could just call 9 1 1 but ah yeah, man I find exactly the same thing I get no joy out of social media I just don't like that's just the honest truth and. I never post on Facebook I like never post on Twitter I find all those places just quicksand you know where you can't you can't do like Chris you know what? you? what you said that? Oh we should just cut through you know we should just magically cut through it never works. 09:25.73 Heather A. 09:37.48 Andrew If you put 1 line out there like well guys actually how this works is if you do this, you get 50 people dog pile on you. Oh well I guess how do you know college professor you know or whatever you can just it's like a pointless waste of time. So. 09:46.46 archpodnet Sure of course. 09:47.15 Heather Um, yeah, yeah. 09:53.92 Andrew The the 1 thing that I do that to kind of circumvent That's really why I have my Youtube channel because for in Youtube I can make a product and like blast it out and then I can deal with the comments in that world which ah usually aren't nearly as just waste of time. Joyless. You know, ah that they are in the other social media world. But that's that's my experience. 10:15.10 archpodnet Naha. 10:18.66 archpodnet Sure heather. 10:19.50 Doug Preach Preach Amen it. 10:19.97 Heather And you know I I actually would say I agree with Doug and Andrew as well. However, however, um, it is. It's so complicated because I'm i. 10:25.96 Andrew Um. 10:36.73 Heather I I definitely see Chris aside In fact I agree with Chris as well. Um, the problem is is that as people who have ah I think a greater perspective because we've seen things from so many different angles. And because we have a platform to talk about it. Um I don't ever comment. Well I shouldn't say ever but rarely do I ever ever comment in these you know certain pages right for archeology. Um for the same reasons that Andrew was just saying and Doug is. They just dog pile on you and then you become the you know the the evil villain or whatever and and nobody wants to listen anyway. But I would say that for as many people as post I would say there's probably 3 times as many people that are reading and are looking and are learning and. So. That's where for me I think that we need to offer other media options. Um, just like Andrew was saying the Youtube you know the the archaeo podcast network um because what's sad is that new people that are entering the field are watching. And reading this crap. Um and some of it is just like so we were talking about before we started virtue signaling all this you know stuff they're they're more much more concerned about everybody hearing them than they are about actually having. 12:08.71 Heather Some kind of a crowdsourced. Let's learn from each other um opportunity that's not where they're going and it's disgusting. Actually it's really it's very frustrating and then what they do is they're putting these false narratives out there for yeah for new people in the field and I think another option is just. 12:11.40 archpodnet Oh. 12:14.38 Andrew So true. 12:28.51 Heather Exactly what Andrew and Doug and bill do is like getting them right at the beginning in their career at the university level teaching people that this is not this is not correct and on top of that the people that are on social media. Ah I think the younger ones are are so savvy. To some of this. So if they're a person who really just wants to know the truth I think they see through that bs but you know I guess probably all this just argues why it's ah a time suck and it's not productive but I do think we do look at it because it's really good opportunity. 13:00.16 archpodnet Ah. 13:05.36 Heather To pull to pull um ah information for you know, looking at podcast topics and doing things that are relevant that people are talking about and so that's why I look at it I don't really comment. 13:20.71 archpodnet Okay I mean those are all definitely valid opinions and we're going to end this segment actually real shortly here because we're not going to spend the whole time talking about this but I will just say I I actually agree with you guys as well. It there is a it is really bad over there and I actually. Mostly don't even comment on archae field tech stuff either. But that's for me with like Facebook posts like when I get to a Facebook post I'm not on Facebook all the time so when I see it even in like some of the rv and groups we're in and the the groups specializing so specializing in like the rv we have if I see somebody ask a question and it's already got like 70 comments like what am I going to contribute. 13:56.28 Heather Um, yeah, right? or they or they they won't even see it. Yeah. 13:56.49 archpodnet You know what? I mean yeah I mean the time nothing if I right right? But if I see ah if I see a comment that has like or a question or something that has like no comments or a couple then I might jump in and be like okay well you know here's here's what I think about that. Um, but that being said I think it is still. It is still valuable for people who. 14:06.30 Heather Yes. 14:16.16 archpodnet Even if you don't comment if you just read some of this stuff and you say you know what that is bad that is negative for the field and report the comment to the admins because not not enough people are doing that and if the admins look at it and say yeah, that is totally false information and we're going to. We're going to get rid of that. This isn't a democracy right? This is a this is a group run by 3 people. 14:22.19 Heather Hey. 14:35.18 archpodnet And and we can bring in other people. It was started by I don't even know who started it to be honest with you? Um, but it was there's three admins now and and we have a group chat and we talk about everything that we we take out of there. Not one of us makes that decision. So it's ah it's just it's just how it is in that group but I still think that ignoring the fact that. That so many people use this as ah as a resource for you know trying to improve how they work in the field and trying to cut through the crap even though they probably could have googled it but the problem is there's not enough resources out there to actually Google for some of this stuff. You know how many people have written a blog post about the best field boots to use in the southeast probably not that many most of that information is here on archeo fieldex. So you know it's just ah I don't know it's not that it's not that big I know there's some other comments out there guys but we really have to end this segment and move on to the next one if we want to keep this going we can but otherwise we'll be back in a minute.