00:00.00 archpodnet All right? Welcome back to the crm archeology podcast episode 256 and we were talking about the sh a meetings and we're gonna take a hard left with section 2 and talk a little about a crm class now. There's a method to my madness here as to why I wanted everyone here to talk about this and this is great. We kind of have our full contingent. Um I'm going to teach a crm professionalism class this semester. So. Remember as we go through this. It is not a field school so this isn't where we're teaching students how to dig and how to map and how to ah, do things in the lab. This is like the upper end stuff this to me is the black arts of Crm Archeology it's the stuff that a lot of times we don't. Learn in college you know so as I go through this segment and the rest of this show I just want the co-hosts to think about stuff. They wish they knew when they got out of college. You know the upper end stuff right? The stuff that that you're like man I wish. That the university taught me this but they didn't here I am on my cram job and I don't know this I don't know what they're saying and also what skills did you need when you moved up, you know like okay I've been a dig bum for a while. What were the things you needed to get. 01:30.16 Webby Yeah. 01:34.00 archpodnet Above that pay grade. So anyway I just like to open it up to the audience to the the cast and go from there. what do you guys think what do you got yeah Chris yeah here like um Chris yeah Chris just go first because I know you're short on time. 01:42.26 Webby Well look let me jump in because I think this is I look. 01:44.35 Doug I 2 comments there 1 cause. Ah. 01:49.29 Webby Yeah, this might be my only segment for this show so or for this topic so I just want to say you know there's everybody always says oh writing more theory you know, learn more about the section one. Oh 6 stuff like that. That's all true right? But I tell you what some of the things that that have really annoyed me with. 01:52.27 archpodnet Yeah. 02:02.32 archpodnet Um. 02:08.87 Webby How people run crews and and it helps to understand these things if you're to start out being part of a crew of course. But it's logisticserm is all about logistics right? You might talk about different sites and different things. But if you don't know how to mobilize a crew get out there efficiently use that crew and then demobilize a crew. You're just you're you're just wasting money and none of the theory or papers you're going to write are even going to matter after that because you've already gone $100000 over budget because you suck right? So you know when we were doing. Um, we had thirty five thousand acres to survey at china like naval weapons center in about six months with 8 people and. We had these little chunks and sections that we would line out and and some of that was dictated for us. But we would try to decide. Okay, you know what? what are these parcels going to look like and the way that I always try to do survey and I wish people taught this and there's a lot more to logistics. But I I specifically want to talk about survey methods right now I would always you know park the truck if you can obviously. Ah, at the beginning at the beginning and end of your survey for the day. Okay, you should have a rough idea of how much you're able to accomplish in a day given what you're going to find and with contingencies for we found too much and we need to shorten this up a little bit but generally how I I like to operate is. Obviously find a road that's at the border of your survey battery That's the best thing so you can park along that as you go along through the week but if you can't just park as close as you can to to where your nearest point is and then I would run a transect out usually and that transect would be going like ah like a I call it like a buffer transect. It would be transect running out like. 03:27.22 archpodnet Um. 03:40.58 Webby Let's say eastwest. Okay, and then you start doing transects north southh and you're and you're you're not including that buffer that you walked eastwest. Um, you're doing the eastwest buffer you leave that and then you start walking North South and if you planned it right? then your last south transect is ending at the truck right? You're not dead walking is the. 03:55.86 archpodnet Right. 03:59.20 Webby Is the thing that I don't think people realize how much money that cost companies especially over the long-term period of a long big survey. You could waste I mean easily 10 15 $ 20000 in dead walking when you look at the billable rates for field text and how much you're doing over a longer project the longer the project is the more survey there is to do the more dead walking you do. The more you're just wasting time and it's things like that things like people not knowing how to change a tire properly or where all the tire changing equipment is you've got ah you know a caravan of 2 or 3 trucks out there and 1 of them blows a tire so everybody has to wait and nobody knows how to change it and nobody knows where the stuff is so you've got people sitting there for 30 minutes to 45 minutes at a billable rate of. 04:32.98 archpodnet Yep. 04:38.22 Webby Ah, hundred to $200 an hour just sitting there while somebody changes a tire. It's stupid. So. 04:43.69 archpodnet Yep does This is the exact stuff I was hoping for what's so funny is one of the things I'm gonna have my students do I already had this on my list was we're all going to meet in the parking lot one day and everyone has to jack up their own car and undo one of their lug nuts. 04:47.00 Heather 1 04:58.50 Webby Nice who there might be some liability there if they screw that up. Ah, right. 05:00.11 archpodnet Put it back on and then put their car back down. Um, so well you know ah I live on the edge. Um, no excellent. Okay yeah, am I'll too who'd like to go next I see hands all over the places. Um, we got one going Heather Doug 05:14.47 Doug But I I'll jump in. Yeah, alright so I actually I got a question for you Andrew and maybe a suggestion based on it and then a comment are you going to use a textbook for it. This course. 05:19.18 archpodnet Dad go for it. Doug. 05:23.32 archpodnet Sure. 05:30.66 archpodnet Yes, um, I'll be using ah Thomas King's archeology laws and practice. 05:35.62 Doug I okay I would if I might do a plug I'm pretty sure we've had them this is before your time Andrew on the podcast. But um, the anthropology anthropology graduates guide from student to a career. Um by Carol Elick and Joe Watkins um so our conflict of interest I was in the course that um book is based off of but it was literally the course is called like avenues professionalism and we're talking like fifteen years ago now maybe a bit more. 05:56.88 archpodnet Yeah. 06:09.50 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:13.47 Doug But it was literally what you've described. It was a course about how to become a professional um and so we did things like you know, mock interviews How to do. Um, how to search for jobs actually um ah like stuff like that. How to. 06:17.86 archpodnet Yeah. Yeah. 06:29.50 archpodnet Um. 06:32.14 Doug Build a career what you're looking for a career how to gain skills. Um, you know how to do a Cv cover letter. Um, it was it was all that sort of more practical stuff and I think they should be having a second edition coming out fairly soon. It may not be there in time for your course. But. 06:33.58 archpodnet You guess. 06:51.28 archpodnet That's okay. 06:51.80 Doug Um, because the old one the book. The old book is like over 10 years old. So I think some of the stuff is yeah but like it's's it's a book. Um, it is the ah the um. 06:56.27 archpodnet Um, that's all right though it what? what was it called again. The. 07:09.40 Doug So was it the anthropology graduates guide for student from student to career to a career. Um, yeah, and yeah. 07:12.37 archpodnet Okay, okay, got it. Yeah, this is um this is exactly the kind of stuff that I'm curious about So um, yeah, that's that's excellent man I'll definitely look that up and also speak. Yeah. 07:24.38 Doug I and then can I cut throw in another one. Also Bill's book Bill's book on like I yeah yeah, like it's that stuff. 07:28.60 archpodnet Yes, I was just going there. Damn you got the bill credit. um yeah yeah um I have I have already downloaded from Amazon the fine suite of books by Bill White and ah. 07:33.80 Bill White Yeah, ah resume writing. Yeah yeah. 07:45.24 Bill White Her. 07:48.31 archpodnet They are going to be on the syllabus as well. So um, cool. Yeah yes, yes, let's do that. So yeah. 07:50.78 Bill White So right on. Thanks. 07:51.47 Webby We we'll we'll put all those references in the show notes too. 07:53.69 Doug Yeah, and if so that was just my if I could do a quick suggestion as well of like topics is I know Chris Chris was doing this um in the background as a joke. But honestly so you guys didn't hear this. Because we didn't record it. But um Chris had suggested I'd I ah tell Angie to take all of his students to a conference I agree a hundred percent agree like um, if there's something that you should learn to do when you're an undergraduate is actually go to a conference and go to a conference. 08:15.50 archpodnet Um, yeah. 08:28.66 archpodnet Um. 08:30.12 Doug It's not like us Andrew what what years are the student you this community college so they'll they'll pretty much be yeah so they likely would I mean some of them could go straight into after with associates but likely again do maybe another year or two that's probably actually like the. 08:33.29 archpodnet Um, yeah, they're all they tend to be like you know sophomores kind of thing. 08:45.64 archpodnet Um, yeah. 08:48.56 Doug Perfect time to go because you do not want to go to a conference when you're like depending on it for a job like like there's a lot of pressure there. Um and you should actually I don't know if you can Andrew but like take them to a conference but like take him as a group because I've I've done. 08:52.86 archpodnet Yes. 09:04.30 archpodnet Right. 09:06.78 Doug A lot of taking like students to conferences and like we're all used to it. But the first conference they go to. They're not going to know a single thing. They're not going to know any etiquette. They're not like to be honestre, you're gonna get like silly questions like so is there a bathroom break. 09:18.33 archpodnet Right. 09:24.57 Doug Um, but like it's just because it's nothing they've ever done before and you should definitely like if you can somehow find some conference that's occurring in the next three months somewhere in California if you could take a field trip and bust them out. Um, it'd be huge if you could actually like. 09:24.79 archpodnet Um, yes. 09:36.61 archpodnet Um, yeah. 09:43.56 Doug Be there and then be as a guide and explain to people and actually introduce people as well. Like I mean and I feel like okay sorry to go back to our other ah past segment but like conferences if they could really help would actually if they had like a buddy system for new people. Um. 09:43.93 archpodnet Right? yeah. 09:53.30 archpodnet Um, that's okay. 09:59.90 archpodnet He. 10:02.90 Doug Where you could take people around and explain like all right? So we're going to sit through like a couple hours of questions and then you could point out like okay so you just see that question right? there that one that didn't really sound like a question and when they're like this is more of a comment than a question and you could you could explain like that's just basically people you know being dicks. 10:19.18 archpodnet Right. 10:20.73 Doug Um, and to be prepared for that and understand that like there's more than a comment than yeah, but like but it's all these little things that you you pick out but when you first go to a conference imagine like if you're first presenting and someone stands up and says this is more of a comment than a question like. 10:22.28 Heather I love that Doug I love that so true. 10:26.75 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:38.34 Doug If you've never experienced with that before you're going to like that's gonna ruin your conference experience. So it's it's all those little tiny things. It'd be great if you could just like drop them take them to a conference explain all the things explain that like during coffee and lunch break. This is when people socialize and ah and and. 10:41.25 archpodnet Right. 10:48.68 archpodnet Yeah. 10:56.64 Doug Maybe introduce them to people because yeah, like the biggest thing is until you've built that network up where you can actually meet and talk to people. It's really nerveracking to go and talk. Yeah, so. 11:02.59 archpodnet Yeah, and and it can be really lonely. Yeah I I know what you mean I have luckily enough I have done aspects of that because we have little like data sharing meetings like the sthesoutherncalifornia the society for California archeology has little data sharing meetings that are often within. Like striking distance of where we are like oh maybe it's only an hour away hour and a half it's on a Saturday um so I have done so that's a great one. So Heather I see that you have ah you got 1 going? What's up. 11:35.91 Heather Um, I would say for both being successful and alleviating some frustration spending a good I would say an entire um so lecture on the business of Archeology. What is Overhead. What is what is the actual profit margin because I think students would be surprised unfortunately because they're not being taught this in University Um, they're basically just taking these armchair. Ah, you know. 11:53.34 archpodnet Um, care. 12:12.73 Heather Ah, Remarks on Forums as Gospel and it's not true. You know this concept that the companies pocket a huge profit and on the backs of people that are working in the field. Ah some you know there are obviously there are some. Ah. 12:31.24 archpodnet Um, yeah. 12:31.83 Heather You know, abusive companies out there. But I think being able to explain the actual numbers like not just saying what I just said but actually proving to them. What is the overhead getting out a pie chart looking at all the costs. Of a company What's a difference between a large company and a small company. Why do you know? Why are billing rates what are billing rates what what does a billing rate represent. Why are the billing rates so much higher than what you're being paid. All of this is really really important number 1. 12:53.10 archpodnet Um, yeah, it's good. 13:03.96 archpodnet Ah, yeah. 13:08.60 Heather Moving forward because if you if that's 1 thing that I see I see it on the forums I watch them a lot. There's so many times that I want to step in and say something but I really truly honestly do not think that people want to hear it. They just want to complain and so I think that if we start from the. 13:21.29 archpodnet Now. 13:26.90 Heather Classroom and we start explaining to to them what the business the crm is people will be a lot less frustrated because when you come in and you are you know your newly minted student and you're coming into the business and if you have this attitude that the big man's trying to screw me every single time you're not. 13:41.79 archpodnet Yeah. 13:45.30 Heather Have the attitude that I'm going to want to push forward like you're going to be in as needed for the rest of your career. 13:48.61 Webby Heather do you but remember when we were when I remember when I came out to visit you and we were sitting in Malibu and our lamborghinis talking about this. These people are crazy I know it's just ridiculous. Ah. 13:49.41 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, it's great stuff. 13:59.78 Heather Yeah, okay, that's true I Yeah as I sit on my yacht in the Santa Barbaraor Harbor Ah, but no I'm I am listen I mean you know what? I'll be real. 14:04.25 Webby Ah, right right? I. 14:05.90 archpodnet Yeah, ah. 14:14.48 Heather I do well for myself, right? um in this business but I've worked I've worked really really hard for it. It also had you know there was some institutional like just business knowledge because this is not my first career but I'm you know what? I'm gonna come out and I'm just gonna be like blatantly honest. 14:16.28 archpodnet Yes, good lord. 14:17.80 Webby You You've earned it though. Ah. 14:33.76 Heather Even with although I do well I live in a very expensive area and I live in a nice prefab home I don't live in a big huge house like people these concepts that people think that you know executives or. 14:38.27 archpodnet He. 14:41.15 Webby Ah. 14:43.36 Webby Yeah. 14:49.93 Heather That managers in COrm are making a ton of money that's not true. It's not true and it it actually just comes with a whole host of problems. But back to the the point is I think that number one it would help people be able to kind of get their mind on the right track so that if they do if they are interested in management. 14:53.57 archpodnet Yeah. 15:09.83 Heather That they're already 1 step further and then second even if you're just a guy that wants to be or gal that wants to be a field person. Um, it will be a lot less frustrating if you understand yeah. 15:21.33 Webby Yeah, and well we're I just want to make a comment too and I see Doug's hand up wants to make a comment as well. But real quick just keep in mind that we're at. 15:22.16 archpodnet Yeah, ah, great. Um, let's see so yes. 15:31.90 archpodnet Um, ah. 15:35.62 Webby 10 years of doing this podcast in February. Okay, February of 2023 and when we started ten years ago neither Doug nor Bill had a ph d and I'm I'm pretty sure I don't know about Doug but I'm for sure. Bill didn't even have his master's yet I can't remember maybe you did bill. But um. 15:48.37 Bill White No I did I did yeah I. 15:51.58 Webby Did you? Okay, yeah, but neither of you had your Ph D and both of you had way fewer children as well. So but everybody if you stick with this exactly. Ah, if you stick with this, you know you you can actually do well for yourself in this career but it takes a lot of hard work and it takes the ability to. 15:56.75 Doug I had done I had none. 16:01.20 Bill White Yeah, ah yeah. 16:11.60 Webby You know shift and and adjust your thinking on what you think a career in Crm is and and constantly reevaluate that because if you if you have this avatar of a cm archeologist in your head that is successful and it doesn't work out for you. You're just going to quit you need to be able to modify that and say. 16:17.97 Heather Yep. 16:27.80 Webby Look at this opportunity that's come along. It's going in a completely different direction I didn't even think was possible. But I think I'm right for it and I think I could you know keep my toe in this and do it. Yeah exactly exactly. 16:32.73 Heather Be trainable, be trainable and it's not just about you coming up with ideas and being a know-all be trainable understand your audience look when you are in the field. 16:36.14 Bill White Well I mean. 16:38.47 archpodnet Um, yeah. 16:42.84 Webby Right? yeah. 16:48.26 archpodnet Um, yeah. 16:50.59 Heather Like there are times when it's time to step up and say you know what I have a good idea and then there's times you got the best idea there. There's times to step back and just listen and absorb so like people skills are huge. 16:59.75 Webby Yeah. 17:06.77 Heather I Would like to talk about that in the next segment. 17:07.59 Webby Um. 17:09.20 archpodnet Yeah, that's a good one. Ah all right I think we'll um, flip over to segment 3 with that and we'll be back in a moment. Thanks guys.