00:00.30 archpodnet Hello and welcome back to the crm archeology podcast episode 256 and we have been talking about how to make the ultimate crm archeology class and with that I think Doug had some comments based on what we were talking about before Doug what's up. 00:19.20 Doug Yeah I was going to say I agree a lot with Heather and Chris I was just going to jump in with some stats to back that up. Ah, but before our server conversely um it was just to say that I'm not. All of Crm as heather made excellent point is crap and actually a love It's great, fun and all sorts of things like that. But there are um times when yeah, you could get ah a bad employer or bad situation. Um, and you know sometimes you could have excellent employers. Excellent people and. Personalities conflict and stuff like that I think if you could let them know that it's okay to move jobs I was just thinking back to like 1 of the Facebook forums I can't remember which archaeo tech ones. It was a couple months ago. There was someone on there who basically. Didn't quite It was their first job didn't quite realize they were on- callll and so they they'd um, they'd gone into they'd they a company had put them on callll and they were like well it's been like three months I think if you could explain to the students that like you know, depending on where you work. You know. Someone has to actually take them through that that it's like on call and you might like go out for like two weeks and then be off four weeks and that actually you need to be working with multiple employers you apply to like a bunch of different jobs and they'll put you sort of on on standby and then when they have work you have work and how to negotiate and basically. 01:38.44 archpodnet Um, yeah. 01:48.47 Doug Negotiate that process and that you know companies will realize that like if they didn't offer you that job like instantly when you applied that you might be taken by someone else and that's okay I think that's just something to go more into that detail that like especially when they're starting out that like you need to apply to. 01:58.43 archpodnet Yes, ah. 02:05.47 Doug A ton of jobs. You don't just apply to 1 when you're field teching and you know if you don't like a company. There are other companies out there or other projects and you can you can leave your it's it's it's yeah. 02:06.85 archpodnet Yeah. 02:12.80 archpodnet Um, yeah, absolutely I I Just think that's a great. That's a great point and so that's so weird too. You know because so many so many? Ah jobs are not like that where. Wait are aren't I supposed to be just loyal to this one. Don't I wait. It's like none and and no, no, no, it's a business Deal. You find something else you go for it. You know they'll be back around. Yeah, get. 02:31.22 Heather Yeah, right right? until you get that full time until you get the full time position and then it even applies there because there's gonna be times where you know there's a season for everything right? and you you start and you have a. 02:36.94 Doug The. 02:46.58 archpodnet Yeah. 02:49.85 Heather You get that full-time position and and then this isn't it. You know you realize maybe the company's just not the best fit for you or I'll just be honest, sometimes companies just either. They don't have the ability to pay you more or they don't see your worth because you are in front of them and they already have you. 03:07.18 archpodnet Um, yeah, right We got very philosophical there for a minute very philosophical. 03:07.74 Heather Um, it like any relationship and in life. Um, and sometimes ah every every now and then you need to remind people what your worth is and sometimes that means leaving or. 03:21.62 archpodnet Um, yeah I think so and you sorry yeah Heather yeah um, yeah, Doug this is a great point because I've experienced this I've experienced where cr m firms. Um. 03:25.74 Heather And bringing up the conversation of potentially leaving. Yeah. 03:34.98 archpodnet Would try and keep me on the line when they had nothing for me and then I said hey I'm going to this other place that does have a job for me and they would pull this sort of Bs loyalty thing. Oh well I mean you could go over there. You know you have to be able to see through that stuff. You know they they give you this idea that they'll never hire you again or something. They totally will next time around whenever they need someone so there is that little note of looking out for number one. It will feel weird, especially somebody new in the field but it's it is ah, an instance where they're not being professional and you have to take up the slack. 04:10.54 Heather I have one what once very small quick comment. Do your homework know your worth and be reasonable in what you ask? There are people that come a lot I mean we have the. 04:12.52 archpodnet With that said I yeah. 04:21.73 archpodnet Right. 04:26.70 Heather Where they're applying to our jobs and then they just price themselves out of the market I mean they they ask for crazy amount of money. So just do your homework and really know what is out there and also know your region because prices are dependent on the region. Yeah. 04:37.22 archpodnet Right? Yep, absolutely. 04:43.85 Doug So that actually um I'm on a piggyback off of Heather again which was the the second comment I sort of had um which was so back to this. So yeah, you guys know I do like the the sort of stats of archeologists I know the wages there are. 04:57.19 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:01.34 Doug So one we really need to get rid of this this idea that like you're going to be forever in poverty If you do archaeology there are millionaire archeologists there there definitely are um, but ah, but it's like. 05:10.53 archpodnet Hey don't don't out me like that. Okay, don't out me all right. 05:19.14 Doug It's like the rest of the world. There's definitely going to be a lot more people at the bottom than at the top. Um, and but that's the thing is like and this this goes back to sort of advice for you Andrew if you could do like an entire class on like career. 05:23.56 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:36.22 Doug What people actually want out of a career because like a lot of people when they describe they want to be an archeologist. They'll say like I want to be a field tech or I want to be a project manager which is a job and not a career and there's a distinction. Um, and it's it'd be really clear to get across them and and the point I was also going to make is like. 05:39.42 archpodnet Um I am. 05:51.98 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:55.48 Doug Um, yes, not all pay is great but like so in the u k they're they're doing a bunch of stats right now trying to like value how you value heritage and I think it applies to a job and how you value heritage. So how do you How do? How do you put like something like Stonehenge or. Ah, cathedral into value. Well they do surveys of people and they say you know how much would you pay for that experience or how much you would you pay to live like in an old town or medieval and you can actually look at some real stats into that and they get a value off of that and they say okay well you know this this bit of heritage is worth. 06:21.94 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:33.42 Doug This much to people. Um, you know x million or whatever but the same is true for a job as well. So like yes, starting out in um, field tech. You know the pay is not great, but the pay is also usually better than your your um. Many other jobs that are out there. But also it's sort of ah a tradeoff of like yeah so okay, maybe you're only making like forty thousand or fifty thousand a year wherever you are I'm assuming. That's what the like the starting rate is for California because you guys are crazy expensive. Um. 06:54.37 archpodnet Right? so. 07:08.98 archpodnet Ah I think that's I think that's fair give or take. But yeah, that's the but that's ballparky I Think that's okay, yeah. 07:12.40 Doug Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then you also people realized that like okay so on paper yeah you you got 50000 but you might be actually doing like a hundred or a hundred and fifty Thousand dollar job in the sense of you get to go out. 07:12.84 Heather A. 07:30.73 Doug Into a field you get to find fun stuff most of the time that it's not I mean unless yes, sometimes it can get repetive but a lot of times the days are different. You know you're doing something different. You're doing a different types of archaeology all the time you're doing something physical like you're not stuck in an office. 07:45.78 archpodnet It. 07:48.83 Doug Um, if you're there and so like that is something people need to think about when they're thinking about a career is how much like there are some people who will do forty or fifty years and retire as a field tech and they will be super happy because they didn't make a lot of money but they did. 07:51.51 Heather Hey. 08:06.98 Doug Like they made a lot of money and in it's sort of intangible. They were not bored. They would have you know, probably gone postal and blown away entire office if they had been stuck inside and stuff like that or died young because of yeah so I think but. 08:14.61 archpodnet Right? Well you know or just been a bit sad. Yeah, ah so yeah. 08:23.99 Doug That's one the thing is like when you're doing a career. You need to think of like all right do I do I need the cash and what sort of job will get me that or do I want to be outdoors and what's our job get me that so you're thinking about a career and what you want at the high level of you know I want to be able to afford a mortgage. 08:32.79 archpodnet Yeah. 08:40.75 archpodnet Yes, yeah. 08:42.36 Doug That's the sort of career you want or I want a career where I can stay outdoors and then you need to be able to make those trade-offs about you know what? what you can and cannot have I think it will make your students both more realistic and also more happy also help them to evaluate it like. 09:00.41 archpodnet yes okay yes yes yes wait hey hello? Um, okay yeah, dive we have to let bill and Bill I've been I've been dying to hear what you want to say? um, ah hope hopefully actually um. 09:01.83 Doug What you want as a career is going to change throughout your life. Ah I'm done I'm done that was it. 09:04.51 Bill White Her. 09:10.77 Bill White Um, oh okay. 09:18.36 archpodnet Here. Let's ah wait for a second. Ah note to Editor. Hopefully you can ah make something about ah to ah cut out my my rantings just to to turn the spotlight over to bill I I had to do that I had to. 09:31.90 Bill White Ah, you don't have to rampage and cut off doug to get all right? Ah all right? Sure all right? Yeah yeah. 09:34.80 archpodnet Though I it that we're at nine thirty and counting man and we got to get to you bill. We got to hear what you want and what you have to say so anyway back on track. Hey ah so Bill. Yeah I'm dying to hear what you have to say? Um, what do you got man. 09:47.89 Bill White Yeah, yeah, I've already been I've so I've been teaching during that I have a summer course. That's six weeks long that is ah professionalism and anthropology and then I also teach ah ethical issues in cultural resources class and so there they're 2 different. 09:56.60 archpodnet Nice. 10:05.90 Bill White You know approaches? Um, but they have they do have the goal of trying to introduce people in a classroom setting to what happens in cultural resources and that well maybe not the anthropology course. That's more for just everyone who wants to work in museums or anthropology. However, they want to approach it and that one is broken down because it's only a six-week. Summer course you know it can't cover as much but it does that one really does start off with that you know life evaluation. You know, spending some time filling out this worksheet of like what do you want out of your life like in 5 years from now where do you want to be and there's these columns with these different things from to put in there like in your life like where you live. 10:31.31 archpodnet Right. 10:43.90 Bill White Ah, friends and family. Um, you know what kind of landscape where do you live so people have to actually envision. Do you want to live in the city. Do you want to live in the suburbs. Do you want to be in the country. What country. Do you want to live in where do you want to be what's your relationship to your parents you know and it goes all the way out for quite a while 30 years because ah, you know folks are definitely going to be moving forward in their lives in 30 years and 1 of the first things that we talk about is how this is just one of the many careers you're going to have because if you finish college here at cal you're twenty something years old you have 50 to sixty more years of being in the workplace. And in that amount of time you could have you know 3 20 year retirements from a government agency from a company from something else or you could have 82 different mini careers that you did for about six months apiece right? So there's a million different things that folks need to think about and that. 11:36.97 archpodnet Um. 11:39.68 Bill White Archeology is just one of the careers you're going to do and that the the being outside and finding sites and stuff. That's just one part of when you're going to do this, you know and and to really think about ah the long game right? that maybe one day you do want to have a house but you don't want to have it in the next five years maybe some of you need a house like right now and you can't really do the field tech thing you got to figure it out in 5 years something that's going to get you a house because you have needs so those are those are the kind of things that folks start off with in that one and then we go through different things like abstracts for conferences and writing resumes is a key one. We do use that. Anthropology graduates guide as as the major book in that course that really helps people put together a portfolio of stuff because once again, it's a summer course. So. It's kind of after a lot of the archeology jobs have been posted but it gives people tons of time to prepare and to try to reach out and connect with. 12:19.69 archpodnet Yeah, right. 12:36.80 Bill White Employers that are going to be hiring in the winter you know so there's still students that have some time left ahead of them but with the crm course that's more of kind of like ah ah you know what? what would ah a project manager do in cultural resources and it's a graduate course. So It's assumed that the the folks that are. Upper level undergrads in this are probably going to go on for graduate school and if they're going to go if they're that serious about Archeology. They're probably going to go into cultural resources and the the Ph D students they need to just learn how to do archeology I Mean there's not a lot of classes where you actually learn how to do archeology at Cal. It's like. 12:58.29 archpodnet Um, right. 13:12.36 Bill White You know at the ph d level I don't really even understand what it is just sitting around reading a bunch of junk and then hanging out for 3 hours and talk like those are the classes that I absolutely hated when I was a ph d student I wanted to hear what my professors knew and how they learned it. That's what I was paying to go do. 13:23.51 archpodnet Yep. 13:28.34 Bill White And instead we were reading you know 4 books a week and then just talking about just whatever the hell for 3 hours like I hated those courses so I try never to make classes like that and so we do have activities. You know we have a mock rfp for a site that's nearby that is is oh. 13:36.85 archpodnet Yeah. And oh just to just to cut in for a minute. What is an Rfp there you go. 13:48.30 Bill White Request for proposals. So I modeled it on some other request for proposals like sensible ones not the 8000 word you know government ones but like you know, sensible county level or city level rfp is for cultural resources work. 13:54.73 archpodnet Um, yeah. 14:01.77 archpodnet Um. 14:03.25 Bill White And then they have to go through all the steps and they all work together. It's only about 6 students they work together in a group. We all talk about you know the methods we talk about the um, ah, regulatory nexus that even is requiring this at the county or city level or the state level or however, they want to approach it. And then you know we talk we actually go to the site. There's a couple of different sites that have been nearby. We go there for a day do a site visit and then given what folks see out there. You know what are they? what are folks feeling or an approach and then we and then we start talking about the budget. You know it's the sites buried underneath. Ten feet of stuff. Are we going to use probes or this or that like what do you really? think? are we going to use a backho are we going to dooring like and then they have to go online and figure out how much all that costs and then they also have to figure out you know, ah the budget. It's taken me years to build this thing but it's an excel file that has the formulas in it for. 14:51.90 archpodnet Wow. 14:57.40 archpodnet Yeah. 15:02.32 Bill White Ah, some major pieces of overhead like payroll taxes Insurance L and I material depreciation and all that stuff so when they put in the hours it shows on the other side. How much that really billable hour rate is going to be and so they ah. 15:14.91 archpodnet Um, yeah. 15:19.30 Bill White I'm like yeah man, nobody's going to really be a pi for $22 an hour. You're going to have to bump that up. Well if we bump that up that's going to mean that past overhead they're making two hundred and sixty dollars an hour I'm like yeah so you got to figure out how many hours do you really need a pi working on this thing or how many hours do you want to out like you know. 15:32.36 archpodnet No. 15:37.19 Bill White What of this? Do you want to outsource? Do you want the photography the 3 d modeling outsourced. Well, how much do those people charge. Let's go figure it out and so most of the course is really figuring out how many hours it's going to take for a certain task and how much money that's going to cost so that they can come together with something that's like an actual proposal with a real. 15:40.36 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 15:55.40 archpodnet Right. 15:56.16 Bill White Billable rate on it and ah Sonia Houtmacher who was a co-host she calls in and talks a lot about the business side of you know, hiring people and you know what? what that costs and you know how how they do their you know taxes and walks us through billable. Rate formulas and stuff and how she would predict for a survey area and stuff like that and it's really cool. You know? so ah, that's what the crm um, course is and the idea is after that you you will know what Heather's talking about you'll know how come you get charged x amount of dollars or. 16:27.55 archpodnet Um, yeah. 16:31.36 Bill White You'll know why they ranch trucks instead of owning trucks. Ah you know and all I mean parking right? Like if you're a crm um company and I always give them an address in downtown Berkeley like where are you going to park five trucks where are you going to keep them. You know in downtown Berkeley how many thousands of dollars does it take. 16:45.14 archpodnet Um, yeah, but. 16:49.79 archpodnet Um, yeah, um. 16:49.97 Bill White Park this truck at that lot is that really an expense across twelve months that you want to that you want to put in your proposals or do you just want to try to bill them for a rental I mean those are all the basic things that we talk about and folks really think about them. You know what are the benefits of having trucks. Well you have them all the time. Ah, the the problem is you out of park them somewhere in the city of Berkeley and not have them get broken into or stolen or ah, you know you also then have to take care of them forever and a lot of times they realize that renting a truck is actually a better way to go than you know. But I mean those are the kind of basic things like. 17:07.49 archpodnet Yep. 17:20.29 archpodnet Ah. 17:24.30 Bill White I give them the formula for how much the laptops and stuff would be in the depreciation but we sit around and we look up. You know how much is a Macbook versus this other kind of whatever thinkpad and then okay you need 6 of them and they're going to need these softwares now. Let's break it down and let's break this across the year 17:41.66 archpodnet Yeah, wow, That's great. See that stuff you know? yeah. 17:41.81 Bill White And then do depreciation of it. 17:48.14 Heather So I love it I love that I love it I think um, another aspect to I mean what you're doing there is you're creating that overhead ah computation which if you have a larger company. Your Cfo is doing that. Um, but I think that this really. Does give you ah a good because not everybody's going to go to a larger company somebody may want to form their own company. Although I would highly suggest not doing that until you've worked for a larger company in order to be successful, but you know. 18:14.19 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 18:14.22 Bill White Yeah. 18:19.96 Bill White Well. 18:20.35 Heather I think ah, that's awesome I love the fact that you have this formula because these are you know we have um, we have a budget sheet for our company and our Cfo is one every year has to go through. There's actual laws that require them to do that. But they go through we audit we kind of figure out. Where we are from the last year we predict where we're going to be for this next year we look at the overhead and comp compute a percentage to begin with. So so we even know what we're making what we're aiming at and so I think I love this aspect. What what bill is mentioning. 18:50.20 archpodnet M. 18:59.95 Heather But I also think mentioning maybe just a side or an additional is the fact that you know there are going to be some companies that have that and understanding as somebody who works for a larger company that you have to take that into consideration. So. 19:12.81 Bill White I Yeah and the other thing too. That's huge when the Ph D students take it is that they realize they should be paying themselves and I'm like yeah I mean not every grant is going to allow you to pay yourself, but this is the mechanism for you getting money from the world and putting it in your pocket. So. 19:19.40 archpodnet Yeah. 19:27.31 Heather Yeah, and Doug made it makes Doug made a really good point about you have to know how many hours it takes that is one of the biggest things that people make a mistake on in the proposal is they're very optimistic and how long things take. 19:31.25 archpodnet Right? exactly? Ah so to Doug. Yeah yep. 19:45.64 archpodnet Ah, so true I just had I just have to rant like like I've experienced that so many times it's like that will never that survey will never happen in 4 hours never ever not ever. You know? Oh yeah god drives me nuts. 19:47.18 Heather Yeah, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, terrain but making sure you understand the terrain I mean four acres on one site's completely different than four acres on another site. Yeah. 20:02.35 archpodnet Yep, yeah, um, Doug I saw your hand up. Yeah yeah, so. 20:07.24 Doug I some places. Oh yeah I do have a last comment I was just also going to say like yeah then add 25% like if if you could pass on like 1 rule to those your students is like add an extra twenty Twenty five percent to whatever you do like timewise like no matter. 20:22.90 archpodnet Um, yeah. 20:26.36 Bill White Yeah, yeah. 20:27.18 Doug How good you are estimating time just add an extra 20% or you know for for everything like like no matter how could you do it. You need that? Um, you need that extra like 20% yeah 20:29.72 archpodnet Yep, So true. 20:39.74 archpodnet Yeah, the cushion. 20:41.64 Heather And I would so I would say one? Oh go ahead. Bill. 20:42.87 Bill White Yeah, well I ah I mean I learned early on that my supervisors my first company. Whatever I estimated they were going to try to cut it in half and force us to do it. So I just started padden it with you know, Twenty five thirty percent more than I actually really thought. 20:51.64 Heather Are. 20:58.40 Bill White And then if they cut it in half I was way more likely to actually get it done and. 21:00.95 archpodnet Right? right. 21:01.40 Heather Yeah, and with budgets I think it's important to look at it from both directions. You're starting from 0 and saying okay, what do I think this is going to cost but you also have to look at it backwards because you have to know what the going rate is generally so you don't want to price yourself out of the market. 21:02.74 Doug Yeah. 21:19.44 Heather So you go and you start off maybe from 0 up but you always have to look at a proposal from the from the total down because you have to be able to shrink it to make sure that you're competitive and how do you do that? You do that through being creative on who does what. 21:25.40 archpodnet Um, right. 21:36.16 Heather And what those billing rates are for those people just like I think Doug or Andrew said that you know p's very little time should be attributed to to their role in it now. 21:37.63 archpodnet E. 21:38.25 Doug And also so. 21:47.43 archpodnet M. 21:51.26 Doug I I would also add like man Andrew if you could impart again. Sorry I've I've said this like 10 times like the most important thing but um, walking away like way too many archeologists way too many archeologists. Actually there's a couple of points on this but like for budgets like projects. 21:56.75 archpodnet Um, it's okay. 22:01.47 archpodnet Um, that's a good one? yeah. 22:06.38 archpodnet Who. 22:08.27 Doug Way too many archaeologists look at as Heather said and it is a going rate like you can't there's what you want to be able to do it for and there's what other people will do it for and you have to be somewhat close and way too many times archeologists look at it and like ah yeah, we we can mate. 22:19.34 Heather Yet. 22:27.16 Doug Maybe we won't you know? maybe we'll just cut out like a lunch break here there and like try to make it work. Um, and honestly like walking away like not enough archeologists just walk away from projects that are not affordable and not doable. Um. 22:30.70 Heather Oh. 22:36.20 Heather Yeah, yeah. Your first step should be go or no go you have to put time to looking at is this a go or no go and exactly what you're saying Doug. There's a point where you have to cut what do you call cut beat. Yeah. 22:42.89 archpodnet Yeah. 22:45.00 Doug Yeah. 22:47.86 archpodnet Right. 22:55.25 Doug You Yeah and you. 22:55.82 archpodnet Cut and run. Yeah, you know like there's apps. Oh I've seen I've experienced that I'm sure we all have It's like you know you're in the room and the obvious answer is hey guys let's stop. You know, um, that's ah ah, the genius. 23:08.70 Doug And like Andrew if you could give them if you can give them like 3 or 4 calls for proposals because like you we all know this like you you get calls in you look at it and and then you do a couple of quick back the napkin calculations and you're like so they want us to. 23:12.20 archpodnet The Genius. Yeah. 23:23.40 archpodnet Yeah. 23:28.24 Doug Survey an acre at a cost of $2 per acre and you instantly know like okay, that's a huge exaggeration there but you get the point like you could pretty much quite quickly figure out what halls are just not viable. Even though. 23:35.99 archpodnet Yeah, right? No, but yeah. 23:46.90 Doug I know I've seen lots of companies. They'll be like oh yeah, still still toss it in there and you're like no my time is being charged to write up these proposals. You shouldn't be just scattergutting throwing stuff in there hoping it gets put in because one that could cost you money if you you actually get it. Ah, 2 It's costing you money to put in just bad proposals that you're just sort of winging it. Um, like if you yeah like give them I know Andrew if you can give them like 3 or 4 and be like which ones would you concentrate on. You can only pick two. Um and people would figure it out that. 24:11.90 archpodnet Right. 24:20.57 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, oh that's I I Totally agree that that idea that you can't do it all that you know that that um, ah, economical sort of focus of funds and manpower in certain areas versus others. Ah these are jams my friends. 24:24.31 Doug Pretty quickly and. 24:38.18 archpodnet Gems and I think with that where we're way Beyond time. We had a ton of stuff to say really help me out now I just have my class right? I had to do no work you you guys just did all the work for me. So I'll just slap my name on that you know at the end with that that was excellent. So yeah. 24:51.26 Bill White Ah, ah. 24:53.65 Doug Well, ah Andrew if you're going to end it you you should do your also your like last class on not just walking away from bad proposals but also like as somewhat negative terms but like how to leave archeology as well like not. 25:06.34 archpodnet Yeah, my very last class and by the way you should leave I get what you mean. 25:10.50 Bill White Ah, her. 25:10.87 Doug Yeah, but like well no like some people the majority of people who the majority of people who do archeology are not going to do it from you know from beginning to grave like you know from from college to grave and like. 25:17.95 archpodnet Yes. 25:21.33 Bill White Um, yeah. 25:22.41 archpodnet Or right it it. 25:28.91 Doug I think there's a lot of shame that some people have for leaving like they feel like they' are a failure if they leave archeology and like they couldn't hack it and stuff like that they couldn't they couldn't hack it in Crm or they couldn't hack it in academia or you know even the subsectors of archaeology and you should have a talk about like yeah sometimes the cards are not going to be there for you like. 25:34.84 archpodnet Um, yeah, a. 25:48.20 Doug You know, maybe there's no jobs in your area and it's a drought of of work or like a literal drought and there's no work. Yeah know there's I think if you could end on. It's okay to walk away. Um and apply these skills elsewhere. 25:50.78 archpodnet Um, right? ah. Um I think ah. 26:01.76 archpodnet But you know I think it's also okay, it's like what Bill said earlier that that what do you want out of your career in the first place you know like if you're if you have some idea about that then later on you have the foundation for if you quote unquote leave or if you do it half the time or every so often then you don't feel as. Bad because you have a more of an idea of what you want in the first place. But with that we're gonna have to roll out. Um that was a that was a great great fun. Everyone and I guess we'll see we'll see you guys next time and. Thanks for tuning in now waiting for the the rollout and see you guys next time I think that should be fine have I forgotten anything. 26:39.19 Doug And bye. 26:43.37 Bill White Ah. 26:48.97 Heather Hi everyone. 26:49.12 Bill White By. 26:57.84 archpodnet Guys know it's kind of an awkward outro there all right I'm going to stop this situation I Totally do do I know what I'm doing I've no idea. Yeah. 26:58.00 Bill White Nope You got it. You did it? Nice nice. 27:02.70 Doug So really hope I Really hope they keep on this outro just just as this last little bit of ah us talking be amazing to end the episode.