00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone and joining me today is Andrew in Southern California and also Heather in Southern California and Heather it's your topic today. So what are we talking about. 00:04.42 Andrew Hello. Everyone. 00:12.30 Heather Hi everyone? Okay well the wonderful uplifting as Andrew said, um, a topic of. Dissatisfaction in the workplace. Well's rainy I just thought I'd go with the typical mood of rainy dreary. So you know I get get these. We see these these articles are popping up all the time you know. 00:26.12 Andrew Oh I think the sun just came out. That's right. 00:38.87 archpodnet Ah. 00:45.48 Heather But um, there's one like I had 1 right right? now. It just happened to pop up it I guess it was listening to or watching me type this is are getting prepared for this because it just popped job unhappiness is that a staggering all-time eye. According to Gallup. Um, so like you're seeing these pop up all the time which actually kind of I think sometimes is a self-fulfilling prophecy um, you know we're being told that we're dissatisfied so we should be dissatisfied or I'm I'm not my home. Maybe I yeah or maybe. 01:04.53 archpodnet Ah. 01:17.19 archpodnet Yeah, they they read the article and go I am dissatisfied you're right? ah. 01:23.25 Heather I don't feel it. But maybe there's something I'm not in tune with um but I actually do I do think there's a lot there. Ah I mean I do think there's a lot of people who are unhappy in the workplace I don't know if I think it's really complex I don't think that there's one answer. And I don't think that there's 1 category of people that are dissatisfied um like everything else in the last two years everything's very complex in in why people are reacting the way they are um and you know I think some of it is just this concept I call it like ah the snow day. Effect so you got a snow day right? and it was awesome like you found out why it don't have to work and you got to snow and and then the next day you have to go back to school or maybe you've got three days of snow day and now you have to go back to school and now school really stinks like school wasn't bad but now it's really bad. 02:03.91 archpodnet Ah. 02:19.90 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:20.68 Heather I mean it wasn't something that you it wasn't that bad but now it's really not enjoyable because you had these three days of snow days where you didn't have to do anything and I know that's really simplifying the situation but I do think that's part of the issue in the dissatisfaction because people went a long time without really having to work. Although. I never had that unfortunately I never stopped working. In fact, my our work for us. It just got much more intense but and so I think that that might be part of it. But I think another aspect is that it's like the issue and the solution. 02:44.90 archpodnet Yeah. 02:59.80 Heather Working against each other to actually make this ah like an um mountain out of a Mole Hill in in some respects Do I Think there's issues in the workplace. Absolutely definitely do. But I think that um a few things that I want to talk about is what is it that. People are dissatisfied with in the workplace we see it on the on the boards all the time and then I think that this concept of dissatisfaction has increased this I'm seeing the popularity of these little niche industries like culture advisors. 03:20.58 archpodnet Oh. 03:36.38 Heather Professional coaches development platforms scheduling platforms management trainings and actually I think number one It's creating a lot of stress number 2 We've got. We've we've got some companies are actually kind of getting manic with their response to how to create a better culture. And then they're trying to create it with a formula and when you're dealing with people's feelings. Formulas don't really work. Um, and personally these companies take I mean I'm talking about like these little niche industries. 04:00.30 archpodnet Right. 04:11.85 Heather Companies are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on trying to create this perfect culture and we've talked about this before but they're trying to create this perfect culture yet and and some of the wages are going up but you're spending all this money on this. 04:19.91 archpodnet Ah. 04:30.51 Heather And you're not increasing the you know just with inflation. You know you're spending money on all these extras where you could just be giving your workers more money and some people say well you know the numbers say the statistics say that? yes. 04:36.35 archpodnet Um, yeah. 04:39.99 archpodnet Yeah. 04:49.70 Heather Obviously you know people making money more money is important but how satisfied they are in the workplace and how they feel um I know you know how much they appreciate the culture in the workplace is as important as how much they make. 04:50.10 archpodnet Man. 05:01.45 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 05:08.85 Heather And so companies are reacting to that by you know, having all these other programs which not all are created equal a lot of them do not work in fact to make the situation worse. So that's what I wanted to just ah first wanted to get your your guys idea. On on all of this and whether or not you're seeing it. 05:29.61 archpodnet Um, yeah, well go ahead. Andrew. 05:31.55 Andrew Ah, okay, um I mean yeah I I Absolutely see this kind of stuff and and and I have to say it all this stuff just all of it. It all drives me crazy I think it is just the most idiotic waste of time crap I mean it's it's. 05:42.40 Heather Me here. Yeah. 05:50.97 Andrew It's like the the movie um ah, office space. You know it's just it's that insane where it's just like come on. It's just a. It's just a cliche wrapped in another cliche. You know it's like ah yeah. 05:55.55 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:56.61 Heather Um, yes, yep. 06:03.54 archpodnet Hold on a second here. Let me let me interrupt please send emails to Andrew at ah I'm just kidding. 06:10.64 Andrew Um, exactly exactly no, but it's just it's like I think of like I think of my grandparents generation. You know it's like it's like my grandfather was a very very young man during the depression and he worked his entire life in the railroad. Um. 06:21.82 archpodnet M. 06:27.18 Andrew I don't know if he was interviewed about his job dissatisfaction level. You know what I mean like and I understand we don't want to be taken advantage of you know, um, and if you're not making enough money I understand that certain things about your job. Get you down certain things about my grandfather's job working on the railroad for like 40 years I think got him down. 06:28.94 Heather Yeah. 06:46.65 Andrew But but you have to deal with it. You have to have a little spine like you make your own satisfaction. You know you're not just some passive person. You know it's like my job could really suck if I made it really suck if that makes sense if I complained. 06:47.95 archpodnet Up. 07:02.16 archpodnet Um, right. 07:03.79 Heather Ah, here. 07:04.99 Andrew About like everything about my job that is a bummer and dude I Could I mean there are certain things about my job. It's not.. It's not a sunny happy day every day but I don't and it's not that I'm just some weird like extra positive person or something I just have perspective and I'm like. Okay, that part sucks. But I'm going to focus on this part that's better and um, I'm going to be a professional I'm going to be a grownup I don't need a life coach. Although I'm thinking of starting my own life coaching industry. Ah, and yeah, you know this this false. 07:24.98 Heather A. 07:35.53 archpodnet Hey. 07:41.23 Andrew Creation of some job culture thing. It's like don't waste your money. Do it yourself. It's about being a a human being I don't know. Yeah, it's good. 07:44.90 archpodnet Um, okay okay I okay I got some thoughts on that Andrew first off the the world is a very different place than it was eighty years ago Fifty years ago thirty years ago right like things evolve and change and are. 07:59.60 Andrew Is it it it it it depends we're talking like almost like metaphysically here you know like at its base like what makes you know what makes human beings. It's like yeah, so but yeah, you're saying it's different. 08:02.39 archpodnet Well it is it is because our thoughts. 08:08.65 archpodnet Ah, well yeah, and how we how we how we treat our our workforce and and how we see work in general a lot of those ideas have just really really evolved and one of the things I've been taking some notes here on our. Little trello card for things I Want to say for this episode just based on this topic and trying to think about reasons why some people could be Dissatisfied. There's the common ones for archaeology and C or M in general which are lack of security I would say that's probably the biggest one. Even if you're working for a great company that seems to have a lot of work. You could be out of a job tomorrow. 08:39.66 Andrew If. 08:41.94 Heather Um. 08:45.71 archpodnet With no notice whatsoever because something changed above your pay grade and you know you no longer have a job and that is that is hanging over the head of literally everybody working in this industry literally everybody you know and you you could argue that it's hanging over the head of every employee in every industry but I feel like. 08:51.42 Andrew Ripe. 08:51.59 Heather Um. 09:05.37 archpodnet I Feel like some just have a ah little more security than others right? and maybe some have less security. But if we're talking about this industry? Yeah, but that's sure. Yeah, but but that's. 09:09.26 Andrew Ah, oh of course yeah of course and and we we've all everyone here has experienced that I've experienced the like guess what don't come in on Monday you know. 09:14.95 Heather Oh. 09:20.44 archpodnet That's very different than than you know, many years ago when you're working in a factory. You're working on the railroad you're working on someone like that that job seemed like it would never go away right and people were living off these you know pensions from Ford and and other ah places thinking we will never get laid off because this is the most secure industry in the world and then guess what you know. Thousands of people get laid off several decades later but you know during the golden age. It was the career to have you know to to do this guy I grew up in Seattle where if you got a job at Boeing as a 20 year old you were set for life that was the thought and it still it still kind of is that way that culture just permeates throughout the whole region. 09:40.56 Andrew Right. 09:52.99 Heather Ah. 09:58.19 archpodnet And yet still boeing routinely just lays off 10000 people when they don't get enough orders for a jet you know I mean like that happens. 10:03.68 Andrew Yeah, but my my example too was almost pre golden age. This is almost depression era where it was not. You know like oh I just have my job set for life. It was like you're the best 1 if you're not ah dumb come back. You know like it 25% 10:08.30 archpodnet Sure. Well. 10:11.66 Heather A. 10:15.77 archpodnet But but just because we just because nobody was writing articles about work culture back then doesn't mean people were happy. You know what? I mean like working working on the railroad all day long in the depression I mean couldn't have been super awesome. You know what? I mean like. 10:21.35 Andrew Sorry. 10:24.70 Andrew Oh get of course. 10:30.24 Heather But I think I do think I do think that people people looked. Yeah yeah I shouldn't say people looked at work differently like now it's like people I think it's it's hard to. 10:32.72 Andrew That's my point. My point is that of course it sucked I'm sorry Heather what we're going to say yeah. 10:41.87 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:50.32 Heather 1 thing that I like about my job is that I do have major entrepreneurial tendencies and I'm able to exercise that but still have a regular job. Um, ah so that's that's nice, not every crm company or environmental firm is like that. So I enjoy that. 10:56.80 archpodnet Um, yeah. 11:10.12 Heather Part of it. But I think that sometimes we put way too much. Um, way too much focus on work to give us that satisfaction I think that companies so remember back in the day when like Google and Apple were creating a. And they still do this but they were the first companies to do this where they created this this society around the work right? So you would stay there you could we would be fed. You could work out there. You could you could? You'd start early early in the morning and leave late late at night yeah it was a community. 11:34.87 archpodnet Um, yeah. 11:41.00 archpodnet The community. 11:45.81 Heather Now companies a lot of companies have done that but they didn't do it in a really good way. They didn't think it out thoroughly right? So so now a lot most I mean I don't know I I think a lot of people are in this spot now where you're working early early in the morning until late at night and it is. 11:50.70 Andrew Yeah. 12:04.23 archpodnet Ah. 12:04.85 Heather That is your life and so when that's now this creates all this other all these other issues when when you had back in the day like what? um Andrew was talking about although they had long work work days too. But you would go walk in. You'd do your job and then you would be done and you'd go home. There was clear distinction between work and and the rest of your life and that's gone now because of covid and so now all the the all of all these blurred lines and if you had dissatisfaction in your life in your just life outside of work. 12:28.58 Andrew Yeah, yeah, it's true. 12:28.98 archpodnet Yeah. 12:42.88 Heather It's starting to blur into work and if you have dissatisfaction in work. Oh my goodness does it ever permeate into your personal life and it's very hard to separate these and I think that's part of the issue with the dissatisfaction is because you know they're saying this you know they're saying like. 12:49.91 archpodnet Um, yeah. 13:01.93 Heather The major things with dissatisfaction um is unmanageable workloads which I definitely am a victim of so the problem is is that as we have people quitting. It's just putting more emphasis or more work on those that are still working. 13:09.78 archpodnet Ah. 13:20.98 Heather You have like crazy workloads you you never have this thing where wow I had these tasks today and I got them all done and the satisfaction of that was a job well done today. Um, you can't do that no matter how much you accomplish you accomplished way more than you would have two years ago in a single day. You still can't be satisfied that you finished everything. 13:29.30 archpodnet Yeah. 13:38.59 archpodnet Right. 13:40.53 Heather Because it's unending and then you know so you have the burnout then you have managers you have people in management positions that have no business now. That's always been an issue but now they when when they are managing whether they are doing it intentionally or not whether. 13:55.43 archpodnet M. 13:58.70 Heather They're managing not only your work environment. But your your home and personal environment because it's all bleeding together that makes a bad manager even worse. Um, especially when they're trying to cover their butt. 14:05.38 archpodnet Yeah. 14:11.71 archpodnet Yeah, right? and and we you know we have to acknowledge too that we're talking about 2 maybe 3 very different levels of employment if we're talking about Crm right? like you you are. 14:16.70 Heather All the time. 14:25.26 Andrew Yeah. 14:27.80 Heather Um. 14:28.87 archpodnet You do a lot of office work. You do a lot of project management. You do a lot of um you know report writing and I totally understand the whole you know, not being able to finish your task list thing because what you you can put one report to bed. And and you've got okay, great. This one's done I've sent it off. Ah you know comments are finished. We're just going to you know, archive that folder and and it's you know, put it on the share drive and it's done but you've got 6 other concurrent reports or 10 or 20 other concurrent reports that you're still working on and the task list just never ends in that moment of satisfaction. 14:52.21 Heather Um, right. 14:57.23 Heather Right? fleeting? Yep yes. 15:00.61 archpodnet Gets shorter and shorter and shorter. Yeah, and because you've just got a mountain of stuff sitting right next to it that just has to be done and you know and with field text it's of course very different. A lot of times right? because they don't have these current current things. They're working on a project and they're out there but they also have I think they're. 15:13.14 Heather Um. 15:20.30 archpodnet Dissatisfaction likely comes from again. The lack of security but not only the lack of security momentarily in the job that they're in but their entire career because what what does it look like yeah everybody talks about oh you need to save and prepare for retirement. How does a field tech retire right? They have to end up. 15:29.40 Heather Ah. 15:36.48 archpodnet As a Pi or owning a company or something like that and even then retirement is on shaky ground right? like retirement is not a thing that people in their twenty s right now are going to have in the traditional sense unless they're making investments but and they're being told that but they don't have the money to make investments right? They're not being paid enough or they're not managing enough because they weren't taught how to do that. 15:42.35 Heather Um, here. 15:56.45 archpodnet And it's just incredibly incredibly stressful. So what does that lead to well it leads to thinking about your side hustle. What are you going to do to bring in extra money and then sometimes that's a passion sometimes it's uber who knows but it's like whatever that is. 16:04.37 Heather Ah. 16:11.88 archpodnet Starts taking precedence over your work in your mind as I would rather be doing this thing than doing this means to an end over here where we all started in archaeology as a passion I mean you don't get into this field without really wanting to do it. It's a passion field to start with. But then when you get into it. Well yeah, exactly. 16:21.70 Heather Right. 16:24.34 Andrew I I do it just for the money I'm in it just for the cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just so you know. 16:29.28 archpodnet I mean you are and the paintball wars I know that so um, yeah, just but Andrew that's where that's where you're a little different too right? because you said that you know sometimes you are dissatisfied sometimes things don't go right? but you don't dwell on it but you you are in a in the. 16:42.90 Andrew Hell yeah. 16:45.98 archpodnet In 1 of those positions and I know we've heard bill talk about this. We have heard you talk about this. There's always the other side of the coin I've always looked at being a professor as you know elbow patches and corduroy jackets and walking through ivy covered covered buildings the class right? Yeah and and that. 16:50.76 Andrew Ah, yeah. 16:58.78 Andrew Um, well well, that's true that part's true. Yeah. 17:03.22 archpodnet That whole Oh I'm just going to walk in say a bunch of things and then walk out and then have you know students right? I Love you on their eyelids right? That's that's all that I I see professorship as right. 17:13.94 Andrew Ah, what a second wait wait wait that doesn't happen for everyone. That's just me okay, well. 17:17.81 archpodnet Ah, right I know but that's but then there's the then there's the reality behind being a professor and you know there's There's all the extra work in the stuff that you don't see but still. There's a romantic side of it that that's like I'm a college professor and that's your long term vision and field Texts Just don't have that. 17:28.67 Andrew Um, ah yes, but yeah, see that's um, you know I think I think I'm guessing when we come back? Um I have a couple things I think I could I could say about that light like how to how to. 17:36.44 archpodnet You know. 17:42.14 archpodnet Okay. 17:46.50 Andrew Deal to make it a little bit less dissatisfying. Yeah. 17:48.19 archpodnet All right? that sounds like a good break point. We'll be back in a minute.