00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the serum archeology podcast episode 2 60 talking about dissatisfaction in the workplace and as we said in the last segment in this one. We're going to talk about that culture that the workplace tries to create I guess. Ah, is it for lack of better way to say it usually comes from the top down or from ah hr or from somebody depending on how big your company is it comes from somebody who probably read a study or paper or if it's hr you know they they have their own certifications and like ah hr conferences and how to make the workplace better and stuff like that and I got to say um that doesn't work on me. 00:37.96 Heather Yeah. 00:38.95 archpodnet Right? Like I work for a company that does those kinds of things not because there's people that are dissatisfied I'm sure there are there's there aren't any company of any size there's several thousand employees in the company that I work for and you know some people are going to be unhappy and there's you know. The thehr is always trying to figure out. Well why and how do we fix it? How do we make it so you want to stay here and you want to do things and in the era of post coveredness. That's even more difficult because most of this company now works remote full time. They they committed to that they got rid of office buildings. They got rid of places where people were going. Acknowledging that people wanted to work from home and trying to create a culture and a community of people that work remotely is incredibly difficult. So so they're always doing these things and like the the company that I that I really kind of work for the one that was purchased by the parent company there in Australia and. A lot of them also work remotely right? most of them actually work remotely and not only are they spread out across Australia and New Zealand but they they worked remotely to begin with. They do have offices in the big cities. Um Auckland Sydney perth Melbourne but those offices. Like we work offices and they have a certain number of spaces and you sign up to say I want to go into the office today or maybe certain teams will meet like once a week or once every other week and they'll they'll just come together physically in the same space just because they can get more done in that period of time but it's it's it's periodic and and not very often and but the thing is. 02:03.20 archpodnet You know they're always doing these like um they used to have pub nights where they would go do trivia as teams you know at ah at a bar or something like that you didn't have to go. But if you wanted to go you went with your coworkers who quickly became friends and they're still doing that but they're doing it virtually now you know you you grab a few drinks. You can have your family around if you want and help you out. And and you you know you join these teams and they do trivia over you know over teams or Zoom something like that basically and ah and they're they're still trying to do those sorts of things and and they do other little things that they try to keep people happy for like it's required that you take a day off on your birthday if your birthday falls on a weekend. You take a Monday or a credit. 02:38.27 Heather Oh that's interesting I like that. 02:41.89 archpodnet Yeah, it's one of your it's one of your vacation days that you just get. It's your and and and they just they try to do all these things and some of it works and some of it doesn't and and then the parent company that's here in North america they do some of the more traditional corporate things I I much prefer the way the australians handle the company but the. North american side. They're doing. You know you always see these little emails come out about you know here's how to make yourself happier and literally happier and more satisfied I've seen emails with that title. Um, not just with work but like in life in general and it's like where are you getting this like the hr playbook like where where is this actually coming from. 03:16.10 Heather Yeah, so disingenuous. It's so oh my gosh. 03:18.65 Andrew And I I was just going to say it's so genuine. 03:21.14 archpodnet Yeah, it really is I know and and like 1 of the things 1 of the things I've always wanted from a workplace is friends I don't even want like employees and and coworkers I want people that I can. That I'm willing to like call up outside of work and say hey I'm going to go on a hike this weekend. You want to go with me, you know and and do things like that and I tried to I tried to create that while maintaining that sort of managerial separation when I've had big you know cruise of my own on on worksites where you know Ah, my company was running the project and. You know we we always did crew dinner. That's one of the things I always did we did crew dinner. Um, once during the 10 day usually the day before the end of the 10 day session and you know I took everybody out to dinner and we just had a good time. You know we just had a good time. There was no talk about work. There was no anything else and it was just let's all go out to dinner companies covering it and and you know, get whatever you want. You know it doesn't even matter and that's just one of the little things and I never tried to do anything that was disingenuous but like I love playing monopoly you know I don't know why people hate that game or love that game I love that game and so we had I know we had monopoly nights all the time. 04:25.78 Heather I Love that game too actually. 04:29.59 Andrew That's 3 loves. 04:31.72 archpodnet Yeah I've got pictures on my photo roll that come up every once a while on my phone of me and people that were working for me playing Monopoly at the end of a workday you know in the evening and you know having some drinks having some beers some wine, whatever and playing Monopoly and having a great time doing it and it was just really fun and that's the kind of that's the kind of thing that I want to have. 04:50.77 Heather Um, right. 04:51.60 archpodnet In my workplace with my coworkers I want them to be friends and but man setting that up and and getting people to that point is so hard when when it's just when there's so much work to do and you don't have time to do that because sometimes it can be seen as Well. We're gonna do this thing as ah as a work group in the evening. We're gonna all go out and. I Don't know go to a bar go bowling do something as a group as like a team building thing but all people see that as is well shit now if I don't go I'm the asshole. But if I do go. That's just more time away from my personal time or my family and what I really want to do and it's seen as disingenuous So I don't know. 05:18.68 Heather Um, right like right. 05:28.42 archpodnet Heather You're more in that corporate atmosphere. How do you guys deal with that. It's tough. 05:29.53 Heather Um, well I would say how I deal with it is different than I'm not I don't agree with everything the company I work for is doing right now. Um, but I think I I know that they're trying um but I think the thing is you cannot force culture. 05:39.64 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 05:49.51 Heather And I don't think they realize like I've said this a lot I've said it even on this podcast I say it a lot at work I'm like you I don't think people realize that this culture thing is a real gas is a potential for gaslighting when you are pushing a culture and you're saying we have this culture. We're amazing. Yay yay! Rah Rob whatever your company is and you are constantly saying you know isn't this an amazing ah company where this we're that or this or that and then you have people that are like wait a minute I'm not experiencing that. Um I don't experience that at all. In fact, I feel completely the opposite. 06:12.84 archpodnet Um. 06:28.43 Heather But that because that's not the um, that's not what the company's trying to communicate then you feel like just like you feel like the asshole because you're the one who doesn't want to go to dinner or you're the one who's not feeling the culture right now and you know the more that a company tries to create a culture. The less genuine it is you have to let it happen organically, you really do and you can set up. You can set up opportunities for the culture to happen but you cannot say okay this is our culture and we are going to be this this and this you can say that is our goal but you can't. Come out and say it's just like I don't know I I want to be the best singer in the world right? Um, you see this with ah whatever you you see these these crazy people that go try out for America's gun cat talent or whatever. Um, and they come in and they're like I am the best singer. 07:10.63 archpodnet Oh. 07:18.50 archpodnet Oh yeah. 07:24.20 Heather And this concept that if I believe it it will be.. That's not the way it works like you can have a goal in front of you and say I want this but you could you're still off Tune. You're still a terrible singer and I guess I mean I'm getting a little off track. But I I think that it is a dangerous thing. When a company says that this is our culture without saying we are working towards this culture and I mean these types of things have always been this way I mean ah think about it ah bowling leaks right? I mean companies back in the 40 s and I mean it. 07:49.33 archpodnet Um, yeah. 08:01.14 Heather There's always been opportunities for people to do things with each other that they work with outside of work. But you know the 1 thing I was just talking to somebody at work on Friday about it is that you know you have all these opportunities they put wellness Wednesday they have all these. You know you can meditate for 15 minutes you can do this, you can do that you can have a barbecue you can um they have these different you know programs where you can. Um, they have an hour here and an hour there and what they don't realize is that from a employee's and perspective. They're believing oh I should do this. This is what the company is pushing and when your company is focusing solely on culture like there's got to be balance if you're not putting. You're not balancing that out with just hardcore. What do we do to do well at. 08:42.60 archpodnet Um, yeah. 08:56.37 Heather Our product to put out a product that's correct. That's good that we're training our our our employees to produce. Well what we are being paid to do and you put so much focus on culture. There's an imbalance there and now you have like sometimes I've seen it where. 09:08.87 archpodnet Um. 09:15.95 Heather People like okay ah okay I accept that invitation and that invitation and before you know it they're doing 20 hours a week of culture stuff and on 20 hours a week on their workload. You know it's just the company needs they when they start bombarding employees. 09:27.78 archpodnet Yeah. 09:35.42 Heather Employees don't know how to react to it and then there's no guidance right? because if you say well wait a minute. You're only allowed this many hours per week. Oh well, we don't want to do that. We don't want to put a limit. We want people to do what they feel they need to do yeah but that's not what you know it's like 2 different messages that people don't the company does not realize. How the employees are taking their message and now you have a company that's focused on their culture instead of their product and when it comes to a company that's number 1 your product. Your product should be number 1 and honestly I think every worker who's a good worker. 10:07.51 archpodnet Right. 10:13.32 Heather Which I think most people are just want to go to work and produce the the product. Whatever it is. They're getting paid for that's what they want to do now if there's little extras great but a company should not be focused on those extras primarily it should be focused on the product. With these others as supplemental. 10:34.40 Andrew Right? And I would just say that the whole like ah we're so great. We have a great culture. It's just a false framework to begin with you know and it's like every. 10:40.88 Heather Yes. 10:45.19 Andrew Every company now has to have their false framework and they're all scrambling to put their false framework on and you can see it on like their website. You know we're the happy fun company and and as you're saying it's total gaslighting because as you experience it. You're like wait. This isn't happy or fun. You're not a happy fun company right? It's just. 10:52.33 Heather Bright. 11:01.93 Heather Yeah, yeah. 11:04.98 Andrew The entire framework is false to begin with and so you're just sort of stuck with another waste of time where I think it's right heather underneath it all. It's like you want to do a good product. You want to be proud of the product you make and then like Chris was saying and then you can. Have outlets to make friends naturally in good time using good managers that would be great. Well. 11:27.44 archpodnet Um, yeah Heather or was your hand still up there. It goes all right? Okay, so so what are we leading down to here right? Look what are we. 11:27.69 Heather Yeah, so you know I think um, you know, just sitting here going. Okay, we're we're doing a lot of yep. Ah sorry we're we're doing a lot of like they shouldn't um. 11:43.36 archpodnet What what are we coming to through this whole conclusion. Is there anything that companies can do to really do this in ah in a genuine way or I think I think from my standpoint that there's little a company can do from a top-down perspective to generate this community. Um I think there's some things you can do to kind of. 11:45.96 Heather Yeah. 12:01.71 archpodnet To kind of foster that but you can't force it right? You have to hire hire people that that get along I think you have to recognize that some people that don't get along with anybody. Even if they're the best archaeologist or the best employee or the best gis person ever. The the point is is not that right? The point is to have. 12:04.37 Andrew Um, yeah. 12:20.15 archpodnet People who want to be there and to get the work done because the work is important. It's not just a ah corporate bottom line the work we do is really important and to to make that part of it and to understand it I mean you just got to have people that work well together and if if that person that is not if there's somebody. That's not causing that then they need to go. 12:37.35 Heather Yeah. 12:38.80 archpodnet I Mean flat out they just need to go and or be restructured into a position where they're not interacting with those people if you want to keep them around for whatever reason. So yeah. 12:46.82 Heather Okay. 12:47.17 Andrew Yeah I Totally think it's the managerial level. It's not the company website. You know it's the it's the manager. It's like the crew chief out you know in the field and how they by sort of the seat of the pants. Um are able to. Kind of bring people together in in that sort of more organic way they can think about it consciously you know and and really have plans to do that. But um, that's it's very tough Ooh. It's tough. 13:06.23 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead? Heather oh Heather if you're speaking now now we can't hear you so put something to chat if you're speaking oh shit. 13:11.71 Heather Um, I think what? what people? um yeah I would like for those that are because we're not yeah. 13:25.64 archpodnet Okay I think we've lost you Heather um, we may have to just wrap this up and and do it I'm I'm not sure why we lost you midstream because we heard all the stuff you had to say early on that's crazy. So. 13:35.18 Andrew Um, yeah, any any weird stuff like just your mic unplugged or something. 13:43.64 archpodnet Um, yeah, it says you're using your computer Mike on my side. Well it says microphone real tech audio Anyway, let me pause this. 13:44.87 Heather Um, hello Hello Hello hello.