00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the cra art podcast episode 2 64 and we're talking about burnout more specifically preventing burnout and Heather I think you had another comment at the end of the last segment go ahead. 00:08.83 Heather Here. Well I'm gonna be mom here I understand I totally get I think that I totally get the concept of wanting to have something that inspires you so wanting to to work. In archeology and do what it is that you Dreamt about doing but sometimes life isn't exactly what you thought it was going to be yeah, everybody has this experience where you realize there's doldrums a part of every single job.. There's. 00:31.20 archpodnet Yeah. 00:45.15 archpodnet Um. 00:45.50 Heather There's no job where everything is exciting all the time. In fact, if everything is exciting all the time then it's not exciting anymore. So you have to have balance and so. 00:51.19 archpodnet Right. 00:56.35 Heather I just wish that people would understand I totally understand drawing parameters. In fact, I really respect people that do that because I am lousy at it and that's why I work as many hours as I do but I really. People need to understand that there are some some parts not that you're doing something unethical or not that you're doing things that are um, you know, just like spirit draining or whatever. That's not what I'm talking about talking about the boring stuff so that kind of you have to those things. 01:23.38 archpodnet The. 01:30.64 Heather They teach you also and you have to experience every aspect of this job to get good at it and sometimes some of those doldrums and those those things that everybody's been doing wrote. Um you may have a skill set that allows you to improve that. That way or that process right? Um, not. You know you don't want to get into the I'm going to reinvent the wheel on everything because there's this reason why things are the way they are but sometimes you know that's innovation that that's something that that will excite you right? So you got to have you got to accept all portions of. 01:51.89 archpodnet Ah. 02:07.62 Heather Of the job. But I think one way of mixing things up a little bit um to get back to what do you do when you're in the field to keep from burning out is 2 things that either. Separating yourself and having a hobby that's completely separate from archeology all together just give your brain a rest and then the other thing to me would be set aside be disciplined and set aside at least 30 minutes a day to do something towards advancing in your career. Whether it be a skill set whether it be just learning about regulations or something that's going to help you take that next step in your job. It doesn't happen. It's too easy when you're so busy and burned out to get stuck being busy. At this stage in your career that you'd never progress. You see it all the time because people are just they're not intentional about improving and so that that would be 1 thing. Um, and if you feel like you are doing something that's helping you become a better archaeologist and putting you in a position where you can. 03:06.78 archpodnet I. 03:18.70 Heather Move up in your career that to me would help with the burnout. 03:22.14 archpodnet Indeed Good points. Enter. 03:26.25 Andrew Yeah I would ah just agree with Heather I feel like this is the segment that strikes back against the previous segment and be like hey man sometimes the job is just the grind and you got to deal with it. So how do we. Deal with the grind right? How do we? How do we deal with that and I think um Heather said that key term of hobbies and I swear like I find hobbies just so important for just your human psyche and health I love hobbies so much I've been thinking of doing a second Youtube channel just called cankela has hobbies just. 03:43.47 Heather Um, one. 03:58.66 archpodnet Guys. 04:00.68 Andrew Talking about Hobbies because I think it's so important again, you know when we're in this line of work to get your brain away from it because it can just totally take you down so a couple examples that have worked for me ah in the field bring a musical instrument like for yourself. You know if you already know how to play it. 04:17.34 Heather Um. 04:20.71 Andrew Um, take it up again if you've always been wondering about it. Go ahead and buy 1 and just you can have it in your hotel room and you can hang out and just try for a while and it's really relaxing and it's like really fun and it's good for your brain you know, um I always used to do that with a with a guitar. 04:21.20 archpodnet Um. 04:40.34 Andrew Now Little subnote on the guitar itself I would recommend bringing an electric guitar actually because an electric guitar unplugged is quieter than an acoustic guitar. And yeah, yeah, while you're learning nobody wants to hear your sweet tones. You know what I mean so like. 04:51.12 archpodnet Yeah, good point. Well headphones these days too. I mean come on. 05:00.40 Andrew Ah, um I know that's that's what I would do so like ah unplugged electric guitar but through headphones or something and then you're like not annoying and it's like super fun. Um, another thing I would do is sometimes have like um like a theme when when you move place to place. 05:05.66 archpodnet Yeah. 05:20.18 Andrew It'd be like hey man every place we're going to try the tacos at like the best taco restaurant in bakers field and then we're going to compare them to the one in Yuma and we're just going to do that at each place you know so you kind of get this like. 05:28.22 archpodnet So. 05:34.14 Andrew Hey let's see the next place and it's kind of positive. We're going to try the tacos in each place and compare and contrast you know and you can use anything like that for yourself, It's something to look forward to it. Something's kind of fun. Um, and yeah. 05:40.80 archpodnet Um, but. 05:44.18 archpodnet I I Really hope there's there's no comparison between the tacos and Bakers field. The ones in yuma by the way because the ones in you are pretty God Damn good. Ah. 05:51.57 Andrew I know but but you can have like a secret interesting you know ones ones where you'd never think they were good. You're like oh my God There's this place here. It's Killer. Yeah, so it's just it's something positive and fun. Um. 05:52.72 Heather Um. 06:02.36 archpodnet That's true. 06:06.40 archpodnet Yeah. 06:07.88 Andrew Another one that I would do is you can have like an outdoor thing that you do like some people like hiking and they can try New hiking trails I Know if you're working in the field all day you're like ah I don't feel like going outside but some people do my thing was swimming. 06:19.22 archpodnet Right? right? and. 06:24.73 Andrew I Would like try and swim anywhere if they had like the world's worst hotel pool I would try it out if we're from near the ocean I would try it out if there was a lake I would try it out like it's again, something that was me I enjoy swimming and something that would just like lighthearted and fun but Hobbies man hobbies. 06:40.31 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 06:43.21 Andrew And I got even more we can talk about later but that to me is like the like way to success. 06:47.50 archpodnet Right? before we get to bill and doug real quick guys I just want to mention something on the hobbies too this whole entire podcast network and definitely this podcast was born out of that philosophy because I've always had a hard time. Just. You know, sitting still and doing nothing even when we're just like watching Tv or something in the evening I've got to be like doing something right? and 1 of those things was and this really this really all came out of the sac was it a San San Francisco um essay a like. 07:06.21 Andrew Yeah. 07:20.47 Andrew Yeah. 07:20.54 archpodnet Twelve years ago or something like that. Um I I first got onto Twitter and I went to a blogging archeology session and then I started my blog literally that day and my Twitter account that day and just like explored this whole new world of people who were doing this whole online thing and and I really really took to that and I wrote my blog for a long time. There's. Close to 300 posts in there and then the desire to continue that blog in another way is what led to my first podcast and then what eventually led to me meeting Bill. Um, and then bill and I talking about starting this podcast and then we met Doug and. And Stephen and the others that we started this with and then the podcast started and then the podcast led to the apn and that was all born out of just wanting to do something in the evenings and to talk about stuff and to have another outlet. You know what? I mean. So yeah I really appreciate that I don't know who is next stugger Bill. 08:03.38 Andrew Right? It makes so much sense. 08:13.70 Bill White You can go ahead. Doug your hand's been up for a while. 08:15.25 archpodnet Go ahead. 08:18.61 Doug Yeah, um, it' sort of tying together both Andrew and Heather's thing um I I think Heather's spot on I think this is a problem with archeology and that also eates a lot. Ah burnout is like. 08:36.41 Doug Ah, job as a job like it's it's there to provide you with money to be able to do the things you like and unfortunately in archeology. There's um, definitely a huge blurring of the line between. What is your job and what is your hobby I think Andrews had some good points on that about you know, getting other hobbies and stuff. But I do think it's tough for a lot of people who possibly expect a little bit too much out of a job. Comes to archeology and I think a lot of people get burned out in that. Um, it's supposed to be fun, but you know also it's a job and then um, a lot of identity stuff that happens in there as well where people like. 09:29.90 Doug You you talk to people in other professions and like it's not the job that they do is not sort of like a self-identifying thing like sales people are not like yes I'm a best buy salesperson. That's all I do that's what I do 100% of the time. That's what I do in my off time. 09:43.89 Heather Are. 09:48.65 Doug I Go to to field schools about ah best buy and all this stuff whereas like archeology you run into that lot. Um, and I would say um yeah, possibly to help with that with the burnout is. 09:55.45 Heather Um. 10:08.30 Doug If you having in trouble being able to think to separate out a job and hobbies. Um, maybe walk away from archeology I Know it's odd to say on this sort of podcast like this. But honestly I know so many people who enjoy archeology once they retire. 10:26.10 Heather When. 10:28.24 Doug And they go to like community digs and just have fun and then these people who've been like miserable for like 3 decades basically hate archeology and then found a way to love it again and I'm not sure a job is is should be the place where you both have. Pace for everything you do also is you know yourself your identification you know who you are plus also is supposed to entertain you I think that's putting a lot of pressure on 1 thing. Um and I have to go with Andrew like diversify um, and if diversification matters leave archeology. 11:01.19 Bill White Yeah. 11:07.41 Doug And have that be your hobby Um, as opposed to the other way around. 11:10.17 Bill White Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree too. I mean we do have too much all hang it on the same thing and some of the ways that I've been able to cope when I was doing crb full time was gamifying workouts I I was with Andrew that doing something like. Say it in you know, three months I'll run a 5 k or something like that and then set up a series of running you know challenges to run one mile then two miles and I would keep up with it in the field too and you know other challenges too. There was the guy I used to work with George Tidsith he recommended this book your body as a jib and so we would do these body weight exercises when we were walking all day in our hotel rooms and that we would try to make it up the levels that they were saying you know these different you know navy seals could do x amount of sit-ups or whatever we would do those kind of activities in our hotel rooms as ways to you know, just. Have something else to do but then also be working towards some kind of goal and then I um, one of these people who falls into these deep. Ah you know, weird obsessions like for the last I don't know 10 years or so I got super obsessed with like the early nineteen hundreds in world war one. And learned all about all this different stuff that was going on in all these different countries in world war one but then started to think about you know stuff like well what was you know a baker's everyday life like in world. You know in the early nineteen hundreds or what was it like if you were a kid in the early nineteen hundreds what kind of. school did you go to what kind of 12:33.31 Heather Um, name it. 12:40.63 Bill White You know clothes did you wear and all this stuff and I mean that goes into learning about artifacts but just learning more about everyone's everyday life reading books from the early nineteen hundreds as my hobby when I was stuck in hotel rooms and you know you mentioned Cuba that's one of the places that you could be sentenced to if you do archeology and in Arizona. 12:57.21 Andrew Yeah I was. 12:59.65 Bill White But ah yeah, you know when you're when you're watching all these Youtube videos and all this different stuff about a certain time period. You could end up being this person who kind of knows quite a bit about something that a lot of people aren't really thinking about and I know other folks who've had different kinds of hobbies that involved with like. Learning about people's clothes from different time periods that making those clothes you know, kind of like cosplay or you know other kinds of you know, sellingwing and other other things you know people who are super into Steamugg could make all kinds of really cool stuff but also checking out you know all these different. 13:21.13 Heather You. 13:22.43 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 13:31.39 Heather Um, me. 13:34.59 Bill White Ah, comics at anime I'd never seen before but then you know being interested in the early nineteen hundreds going into this you know rabbit hole is something that you could you could use your time. You're not really thinking about work. It's something totally different. It's something. That's super nerdy which archeologists are excellent at being nerds. And you know it. It takes your mind off of it so that your job is not everything in your your entire life and. 13:54.54 Andrew Right? I'm so glad to hear you say that I thought I was the only one. So what I do is just like you I like perseverate down on a thing and it's kind of weird but I get so much joy out of it man you know and so and that all kind of. 13:55.88 Heather Um e. 13:56.00 archpodnet Look at me. 14:08.72 archpodnet Yeah. 14:12.94 Andrew Rotates into the whole hobby thing and I think it ends up being very positive because like you said bill you like learn a ton you know about this little tiny sliver of the world and it kind of oddly rotates into archeology too. So. 14:26.92 Heather You're still using your skill set from archeology which is why you love archeology that research the and aid of part process. All of that you're you're still using it so it doesn't have to be like a Hobby doesn't have to be so separate. 14:28.82 Andrew So yep. 14:31.60 archpodnet You. 14:41.32 Heather It can still use those things. Yeah I think that's why a lot of archaeologists write books. Um. 14:47.92 archpodnet Um, I think I think heather. 14:49.45 Bill White Yeah, all all the things that will deter you from having a partner in life. Ah you know stowed tools. Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure that'll work excellently on your your dating profiles talk all about your stow tools. 14:53.29 Heather Um, yeah. 14:54.34 Andrew Totally true. Yeah. 14:56.40 archpodnet Ah. 14:58.65 archpodnet Means. 15:02.39 Bill White World War one? Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure there's people line it up to date someone who's all about World War one? Yeah so you know all the stuff that'll make you repulsive to the normal world Just do all of that as your as your coping mechanism. 15:02.56 Heather Um, he's got find gotta fight me are you. 15:08.59 Andrew Ah, oh. 15:13.47 archpodnet Um, listen listen there's 9000000000 people on the planet somebody's going to really get into that I'm just saying. Ah yeah, yeah, well. 15:17.14 Bill White Yeah, there's the the other ones who made the Youtube video series as I've watched you know time and time again on world war one those the all 8 of those people are the only matches I have. 15:19.10 Heather Um, there. 15:26.21 Doug Ah, ah yeah, guys I would know I don't think anyone here has done like modern dating through the apps like I Miss I miss that. But with my yeah, my friends and my um, my. 15:27.52 archpodnet Okay. 15:34.57 Bill White I No I'm still stuck in World War one. Ah. 15:34.80 archpodnet Um, no. 15:35.58 Heather Um I have kids that you know if it's a um. 15:43.15 Doug My family are going through that and you would like to think that you would be matched with that person who also likes stone tools but that's not how that works guys. That's not how that works at all. Um, yeah I hate to break it. New. 15:43.79 Bill White Wow. 15:52.96 Andrew Oh now. Oops. 15:53.66 Bill White Ah, ah, ah. 15:54.90 archpodnet Um. 15:58.41 archpodnet Hey I think we just came up with the next business idea I end the segment with this ah we need to have it like and like an like an archaeo dating site. We'll just call it archaeometric right? Yeah, but you have one archaeologists. Yeah, so. 16:00.90 Heather Um. 16:06.33 Bill White Who I don't know that could be that I I just just naming it already like I already could see us having problems. 16:08.83 Heather Um, farmers which congress one. Yeah the month night. 16:19.48 archpodnet Ah I know I know we can't even decide on a union which is a tough topic to to talk about and you just make one comment on Facebook and it descends into chaos. So yeah, all right? well. 16:26.14 Bill White Um, is it or that yeah I I Just there's just so much. There's just so much there that I don't really I don't know. 16:36.44 archpodnet There's so much this podcast. So let's take a break and continue it on the other side with the last segment back in a minute.