00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the serm archeology podcast episode 2 68 and we're talking about raising children in the field. Well raising children while being an archeologist I guess not necessarily in the field but maybe sometimes in the field. We just heard bill talking about I mean how much of a struggle it was and that was with a 2 parent household and. I mean you just got to have massive coordination. But what if you're ah a single parent and you're trying to raise kids and do archeology and and and have a career Heather. You've got some some really detailed experience with that. How'd you do it. 00:31.51 Heather Yeah I sure do well so when I started my my kids were let's see um, 6 and 9 when I started in crm so it's a little different I mean I didn't have the daycare thing but I will say that. 00:44.15 archpodnet Money. 00:49.22 Heather Um, when I you know? yeah I did have my kids were smaller and as far as everything that that bill is saying I'm not going to reiterate. It is correct. Um I went a little different route I I decided that you know with my. 00:58.32 archpodnet Now. 01:07.88 Heather Other career or what I did to make money before I went into crm um I focused on I said I was going to not do a regular daytime job until my kids were in school meaning kindergarten and but I did a lot of I did preschool. So I did work a little bit during the day but it wasn't like I had to be here at this time until this time so I did something called a cooperative preschool which allowed me to work three days a week and then two days. So the parents are part of the preschool so you put in two days with the preschool and you have. 01:38.52 archpodnet Um. 01:45.40 Heather Really good I mean sometimes this a lot of times these are offered with like adult schools or or rec department parks and rec departments in a city and they're actually excellent because they're run by people who are child development experts um with masters or ph d in child development have been doing this for many many years and the concept behind is that they teach ah parents how to parent better and while also being a preschool and it's a full time preschool that the kids go 3 times well and say full time like from 8 until about one thirty and um and then. 02:17.20 archpodnet Okay. 02:21.50 Heather You put in two days then that gives you three days to have that period of time where you can work and so that's what I did plus I would work at night. Um, when my husband my then husband would come home and and um, he was caring for the kids. But basically I I didn't start working until they went to sleep. 02:27.90 archpodnet Oh. 02:38.78 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 02:40.54 Heather Basically so it was tough. You know it's it's tough and set me up for ah, never ah, having a good night's sleep, but which is carried through the rest of my life. But so when I ended up going into COrM and my kids were 6 and nine. Um. 02:59.20 Heather Actually even a little bit earlier than that I think it was 4 4 and when I really really began. It was about 4 and 7 um I did a um I had a very very good friend. Um, that would care for. 03:01.63 archpodnet Um. 03:05.75 archpodnet Yeah. 03:18.80 Heather My children I was also going to school at the same time and it was a full time I was working full time and I was in graduate school. So um, it was tough but I did have some great teachers that ah and I also had very well-behaved children and and I was able to bring I I scheduled everything. My whole life was my children school and work. There was no extracurricular of anything. No going out with friends that was my focus and I understood that and it was um, you know it it was taxing but I'll tell you 1 thing it it. Bonded my children and I together now if this you know there could have been a myriad of different ways that this could have gone but I think the bind that my children or the closest that I have with my children is because we were a team together this this was not something that mom was. 04:10.78 archpodnet Um. 04:12.90 Heather Doing alone. They understood that this was something we were doing together so we could have a better life and that was it wasn't like this mantra that I said all the time like we just understood it and I was very fortunate to have some wonderful professors I didn't take advantage of it. 04:19.81 archpodnet That's cool. 04:30.78 Heather There were some classes. It wasn't appropriate to bring them but there were sometimes like if I was working in the lab and doing lab work. Um, my professors that I even had some of them were like hey I've got some great movies and they would put it on the big screen and or my kids would actually so sort with me my kids got very good at sorting. Um. 04:31.67 archpodnet Um. 04:42.68 archpodnet Nice. 04:50.68 Heather You know distinguishing. Ah fishbone from the rest I mean it and it was a team effort and I really do think that in the long run it. It helped our relationship. Um, but it was tough and I think one that I couldn't have done it without supportive professors and without the help of a best friend at the time. Who we had children around the same age I helped her whenever I could and she helped me whenever she could and that was the only way I was able to do it. Yeah. 05:17.67 archpodnet Wow, That's crazy and so that was when you were in school and you know were were they school and working I mean how do you do like out of town fieldwork and stuff like that. 05:23.41 Heather School end working both. Yeah get well I got very lucky I was on and well I shouldn't say I got very lucky I worked towards working for a company where I could get ah a local job. 05:34.89 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:39.75 Heather And I ended up on a superfund cleanup site project that was probably 1 of the coolest projects I'll ever be on in my entire life which was my you know one of the first ones I did and that was a long term I worked on that project for four and a half years and so that just. 05:55.74 archpodnet Wow. 05:58.30 Heather That didn't happen by accident though either you know I pursued something like that I knew that the only way to do this was if I could have a local local type job that would sustain me through that period of going to school and then as soon as and so you know I did travel a little bit but sometimes I would do. 06:12.83 archpodnet Um. 06:17.93 Heather Um, the only time I would travel so that I could either do a tradeoff with my employers where you've been great to me here I'm going to like ah I'll give you sometimes periods of time that I'm able to go wherever you want to send me so it was it. You know. It was a was kind of a deal that we made and so when my ex-husband at that point would have the kids for two weeks during the summer I would say okay I've got or two weeks here or one week there I said I had these two weeks wherever you need me I can go and then that's when I would travel was when. I had those periods of time where you would have them for a straight shot that it takes a lot of planning. 06:59.90 archpodnet Right? That's I think you need to hit the nail in the head though I mean that's kind of the way you do a c or m career is you you create it yourselves so many times we see people in you know and like social media groups and things like that saying oh you know I I can't find a job doing this exact 1 tiny little thing. But you've got to be flexible and and find find the things that match exactly what you want to do because they are out there. You might have to be extremely flexible for it. But those things are out there and you don't just necessarily take what's coming to you I mean find the things that fit you know. 07:19.24 Heather Yeah, 1 07:25.30 Heather Um, right. 07:35.30 archpodnet Your lifestyle and what you what you need and want to do it doesn't always work out that way you had a pretty good circumstance there but you can craft your own luck. 07:37.66 Heather Um, you also yeah at and you have to have a dialogue and I know that's scary, especially if you're newer in your career. It's scary. But. 07:47.13 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 07:53.86 Heather It's actually an opportunity for you to get to know your employer and I say this to my kids all the time just in general when it comes to teachers I say I know it's scary to go over to a teacher a professor or high school teacher and say um I need help like I'm buried I don't understand this and you think oh they're going to judge me or whatever. And I said you know most people most people want to help others and when you go to them and you say I need help and you're just asking for you said listen these are my situations I'm not asking for anything extra special I'm going to work but I just want to say this is where I'm at. Is there something that we can do here and the employer. Ah any employer. Most people are going to want to help you and in fact, it's an opportunity for you to build a relationship with your employer or your professors and they have buy-in now. 08:47.64 archpodnet Yeah. 08:47.83 Heather Like they are invested in you just like you are invested in your in your career and so you know you can't no one can make this life a success alone right? We're not on an island we need help from each other. You just have to swallow the pride and ask for it. But also don't expect it. 09:04.33 archpodnet Yeah, doug. 09:07.70 Heather You can't you can't go in there like this attitude of you're going to give it to me right. 09:11.56 archpodnet Exactly. 09:14.37 Doug Yeah, it's also a good way to sort of figure out who you want to work for now I do realize that like you know, ah certain more rural locations. You may only have one archeology employer and that's it. Um, but usually like in most. 09:17.37 Heather Yes. 09:31.89 Doug Most larger cities most states most places you're going to have a couple of choices. Um, and this is a good opportunity to find out who you actually want to work for it goes both ways so like um. 1 a lot of employers will have had children too so they'll understand um but 2 it's it's you know how flexible are they willing to be or how much are they willing to work with with people um to get the best out of them. And you know that's that's getting the best out of you if you have children and trying to work around a tough schedule like that. Um, so it is a good opportunity. As Heather said you know don't expect it? Um, but it is a good indication of of a good employer if they are. Willing to work with you around issues like that and um I think it's ah as Heather was saying you have to ask make that ask and especially it'll be intimidating when you're maybe like this is your first job and you're afraid of losing that job in that experience. But um I would say it's. Better to get that out of the way earlier than suffering and waiting for years. Um, only to find out that you actually really don't want to be working for that employer. Anyways. 10:54.61 archpodnet Indeed now Doug You had a comment on sleep earlier too talking about working at night and and that kind of schedule. 11:01.84 Doug Yeah, revenge work. Um, so like yeah, no, it's well it's just thing so like if you've had um like with small children like you you really when when they're home. Yeah, maybe you can answer a quick email here. With auto correct or auto auto suggestion where you just type away and hit okay and like there's there's little bits and pieces you you could do here but you can't actually do much with children around um young children I don't know maybe it gets better but from the sounds of it from Bill I have to wait like at least. 11:35.26 Bill White It does get better now. Now it's it gets better. How old is your daughter. Yeah, you only have like 2 you only have like two more years you're good you'll make it. 11:39.50 Doug Decade or so um, three and a half is the oldest. Yeah um, but but like when they're younger you you just can't do work and then getting them to bed is ah is a chore I'm basically. 11:58.44 Bill White Um, yeah. 11:58.85 Doug You're tired. You're exhausted but it is the only time you have alone without like children and stuff so you you end up doing work when you should be going to sleep because it's like it's your only ah time to have some solitude. It's the only time to get stuff done. 12:03.88 Bill White And you. 12:14.67 Bill White Um, the agenda all you know. 12:17.47 Doug Ah, my wife and and I have talked about it and um, it was actually one of our friends who so she she's a former archeologist. Um, who also talked about and basically coined that that term like revenge working. Um when it's like late at night and you really, you should be asleep because like you know. 12:27.94 Bill White For. 12:36.65 Doug Your kids are going to be up like 3 times during the night you're not going to get solid hours. Um, but you you just work because like yes, it's freedom. 12:38.64 Bill White Um, yeah. 12:45.79 Bill White Yeah, yeah, I used to I mean ah my son was a horrible sleeper. But I lived in Arizona so a lot of times we had to leave for work at 4AM or maybe even early to to get there when the sun comes up so ah. When he was really little I'd wake up at like three forty five or four and then hang out with him for an hour or 2 till he was ready to go to sleep and then um, you know I'd put him back in with my wife and then I'd get ready to go to work and then I'd work and like come and get him from after care. 13:08.59 Heather Yeah, yeah. 13:19.25 Bill White And it was really tough when I was like in Tucson and not out in the field because then I'd get home at like five o'clock and I'd be totally drained and exhausted and as soon as my wife would come home I would just go to sleep basically eight o'clock nine o'clock I'd pass out and then I'd do it again. I'd wake up and that time from like. 13:32.46 archpodnet Choose. 13:36.84 Bill White 5 to probably 7 or 8 in the morning if I was if I was in town was the time that I could actually write and I also started taking naps in them like people laugh at me man. But at lunch I would just eat my food and then sleep and also when we were in Arizona and it was super hot I would just. You know, save up all the breaks for the whole day and then we would just work. You know if we were doing a 10 hour day we'd work like until we only had a couple hours left in the day and then use like your lunch and all your breaks at once you get an hour and then sit in the air-cond conditioned Jeep or whatever and I'd sleep for 20 or 30 minutes just that I could survive and you know drive the jeep to get back home. And now my son is 13 my daughter's 10 and I still wake up at 4 4 45 like even when I go to sleep at like Eleven o'clock I'll still wake up at 4 or 5 in the morning and then maybe I can go back to sleep or I'll just sleep in the middle of the day too I still the naps like I just don't stop I just keep doing a nap. 14:16.42 Heather Yeah. 14:32.17 Heather I Wish I could nap I met I Just it's just not something my body would allows me to do but yeah, ah yeah so I have um oh do you want it, You want to go to the next segment. 14:37.44 Bill White I Just pass out just like an old granddad. Ah. 14:41.71 archpodnet All right guys. Yeah, go ahead? No no, no I was really gonna bring you in So go ahead. 14:50.85 Heather Okay, so um I have somebody on my team who has a seven month old and you know she's been on our team for 13 years Um, and so we um. We have a program. Basically she just you know there was a point where she was actually moving to another area and um, my boss at the time was like okay well, we'll just say goodbye and I knew she was so valuable and and plus she's become a friend over the time I said you know. We need to bend over backwards here to make this work I think she can still work from us and so we started already on that. Um on that path of of making things work even before she had children and it worked out well and she was working remote even you know before covid and um it was. You know an employer having flexibility with a very valuable employee so that's 1 thing to think about is that this isn't just you know in this day and age I think a lot of times. There's a lot of talk about what employee employers are doing for employees. But. It is important that you establish yourself as a valuable employee and sometimes you don't know the employer and that's just it's going to be difficult because they don't know you but the 1 thing um I was bit of advice I would give is that you just you need to be a valuable employee where you're bringing value. 16:19.80 Heather You're not just showing up and doing the work. You're a valuable employee so that was you know what this 1 individual was I'm not going to mention her name just ah for her sake. But then um, she had a child and um, you know we we were just because we're we're a very close team. We're you all excited. 16:27.34 archpodnet But. 16:38.20 Heather And we are invested in making this work and she's like I don't know how I'm going to make this work I think at first she said like any new mom I can do this, you know, just put them down to naps and you know during the day. Um, they can play and they'll be fine and I can work and those of us with children are like yeah. Ah, that's probably not going to work but she had to learn it on her own and um, so now what happens is we have a list of tasks that need to happen and we just shoot that into our Zoom channel and we have this is what needs to happen and we also have set her up in a. 16:57.59 archpodnet Um, like. 17:14.90 Heather In a role which she had already kind of been in but she's in it and even more now where she's the manager. She's the disseminator of tasks to the rest of the team. Um, she's also so you know schedules she keeps up on her schedule. She does all of these tasks that. 17:30.95 Heather Everybody you know when you were working 8 hours you think you have plenty of time but you're going from task to task to task and keeping up the organization to make sure that it that the workflow is as efficient as possible is difficult difficult to do and so that's her role. So and that's a perfect job to do when you have 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there and so during the day she works when she can when we call him bebe is um, allows her to work basically and then she does a lot of work because she naps with him. So when he's napping she's napping and she does a lot of work late at night and so as an employer I would say the advice if you supervise people and you have it's not ah, you don't have to shut that down. You just have to be creative and figure out what would be the best role for for this 1 individual and she does. And we could not survive as a team without her our workflow would not be as ah, effective and successful as it is with without her and so we just have a list of tasks and she jumps on them when she's able to work so it's not um, the typical 8 hours and she actually doesn't get a full 8 hours in 18:47.26 archpodnet Her. 18:47.33 Heather She gets in what she can and so her hours fluctuate and that's the other thing is that we're working and you have to be um, you have to talk to hr and say what can we do? I mean these aren't hard and fast where she's still considered a full-time employee. She's part. She's working part-time hours right now. But. We were able to kind of stretch out this concept of her maternity leave in a creative way and working with Hr and it works and she's seven months down the road and she's still working with that strategy and it works for for everyone. So. It can be done. You just have to be creative. 19:25.48 Doug Yeah, man like you are. You're never more cocky than before you have children about being able to do work with children like like when you described like her thing. Basically we had that same um thing about like yeah you know we'll be able to do this and that and. 19:33.70 Heather Yeah, ah. 19:45.29 Doug You know when the kidnaps I'll be able to do work and and yeah like man it's like that saying like you know, no no plan survives first contact with the enemy like every single person. So if you if you don't have children you're listening to this podcast. Um, you may have some dreams about like. 20:04.35 Doug If you plan to have children that you might be able to like have a have a minimum minimal impact upon your working life. Um, and you won't have to get as creative as heather just described um and that never works out. It's like. You you have dreams and they are destroyed almost instantly um, ah but it is possible as Heather described like you have to get more creative. Um, just think think when you go to have kids you have to be ah way more creative than just this idea of like oh yeah, there'll be a little. 20:28.66 Heather Um, and yeah. 20:37.96 Doug Some naps or I can just put him in the corner with a ah ball or something and that that'll irri entertain him for like 6 hours um that's that's not possible. 20:46.85 archpodnet Okay, well we are going to wrap up this segment on the other side and you know just hopefully have some words of encouragement for everybody who's going through this and and trying to raise children while being an archeologist and building a career back in a minute.