00:02.47 Chris All right everybody this is Chris just jumping back in. We had an ah internet failure and some weird things happened so we had sort of an abrupt end to our conversation. But we're going to bring this back in because 1 thing we realized Andrew was trying to be consistent here and he read the definition out of his little textbook there for phase one and phase 2 00:09.41 Heather Are. 00:20.46 Chris And now he's going to read us phase three so we can all know what that means finally. 00:24.30 archpodnet All right here we go yes Mr consistency himself Andrew can kella well here for reading so ah, what is a ah phase three. So I like this here according to the textbook phase three data recovery commences when avoidance is not reasonably possible. And when excavation or comparable archeological investigation is deemed the most appropriate way to mitigate or offset the ah adverse effects so phase 3 attempts the recovery analysis and dissemination of the anthropological information stored within the threatened part of the site matrix the idea is to make the continued existence. The portion of the threatened site redundant and of course you know there's some controversy over that. But it's understandable in terms of the law if successful the site's information potential is captured by the process and contained in the archeological assemblage field records. 01:03.84 Chris Um. 01:14.61 archpodnet Laboratory analysis records and reports. So there you go. That's what you're supposed to do in a phase 3 01:18.96 Chris All right? then. So basically dig it all up and put it in the lab. Yeah. 01:23.79 Bill White I yeah I never really understood the redundancy part but I mean I can see it as someone who has built a career on counting stuff like window glass and nails that you could be like oh my gosh we are definitely in redundancy. You know how many thousands of Rusty nails. 01:25.20 archpodnet Yep, it. 01:34.79 archpodnet Yeah. 01:36.75 Chris But. 01:41.46 Heather Ah. 01:41.88 Chris Ah, yeah, well I think that's yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. 01:42.69 Bill White Do we really need to know about. 01:43.50 archpodnet Oh man I did one where there was wire. Yeah, we had to save the wire. Yeah. 01:45.66 Heather Well I don't think I think it? Yeah well I think 1 thing to remember with ah data recovery is not always necessary. Um, you can look and so you have a you have a resource you look around. 01:46.90 Bill White Oh great kibbles of wire. 01:57.40 Chris Yeah. 01:59.70 archpodnet Um, oh yeah. 02:03.44 Heather And you know let's say we know what the resources and the idea is is that you're trying to capture information that would be helpful in a more comprehensive you know, complex understanding of that period of time. So. 02:05.90 Bill White Are. 02:23.20 Heather If that's not going to be helped with your data recovery. Sometimes there's an argument that a data recovery is not necessary because you already have that information and so you know I don't think that's 1 thing that people need to remember. It's just because you have a resource and it's not avoided. Ah, you're not able to avoid it. 02:30.36 Chris Um. 02:41.80 Heather Now this doesn't happen very often. But the Id the reason I think it's important even though it doesn't happen very often. The reason I think it's important is that people have to understand the spirit behind why we do data recovery. We're not just doing data recovery to get the information about that site Specifically if you have. 02:49.95 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:59.94 Heather If there's any evidence whatsoever that this site might be unique to other sites in the area from the same period and all the traits are the same. You know you have to have a reason why you're excavating this site and why is that important that's important because there's you know. 03:14.18 Bill White Are. 03:19.16 Heather Sometimes um avoidance is or sometimes the the impact isn't really like you're grading the whole thing Sometimes it's just limited impact so you have to decide. You know what? what really does need to be. 03:30.68 Bill White Yeah. 03:32.75 Chris Um. 03:38.20 Heather You know what really does need to be excavated and so there's so many thoughts that go into that. It's not just oh we have a site now we have to data data recovery the entire site and I I think a lot of people understand that. But I think people you know, especially if you're new to archeology or crm you you just think that it's a blanket data recovery across an entire site. 03:38.64 archpodnet Yeah. 03:45.32 Bill White Yeah. 03:46.30 Chris Um. 03:55.97 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah I Love that whole idea Heather of like the site significance and the. 03:57.55 Heather When that's not the case to so many other decision Makers decision. Yeah. 04:00.82 Bill White Yeah. 04:05.94 Heather Here. 04:06.32 archpodnet Spirit of the law like that's what is really all about underneath all of it and I think we've all been on projects from time to time where they just long forgot that and are just sort of doing some weird thing by wrote you know? So yeah, what a what a great point. Yeah yeah. 04:10.96 Bill White Um, yeah. 04:13.80 Heather Right? Especially historic sites like historic sites. You know everything sometimes not always, but you know everything right? Not well. Okay, you never know everything you're right? But do you do you know. 04:17.69 Chris Ah. 04:18.23 Bill White Yeah, you don't know everything you don't know everything. 04:25.18 archpodnet The. 04:31.37 archpodnet Yeah, right. 04:33.00 Heather Enough is what you're going to excavate and listen it I know some people may argue this but there is you do have a responsibility to not Burden a client with a with an excavation that's going to add nothing to the archeological record. Really. 04:43.95 Bill White Yeah. 04:51.45 archpodnet No no, what wait this is this is a 2 way street I can't just do whatever I want. Ah this job gets worse all the time. 04:51.88 Bill White Um, yeah. 04:53.00 Heather Ah, you don't and so and these data recoveries are expensive. They're expensive at this. 04:55.16 Chris Yeah. 04:56.74 Bill White Um, now. 05:00.59 Bill White Yeah. 05:02.38 Chris But yeah. 05:02.40 Heather So and and then the other thing is is that you know we're seeing more and more at least here in California where the tribes are saying okay listen I want to know what is it? What? really What is going to be the impact on this site and what you're doing here I'd rather you just. You know be very limited in your data recovery efforts and let's only really? yeah, let's I think the attitude towards that data recovery has changed especially depending on what the impact's going to be. 05:30.19 Chris Oh. 05:30.63 archpodnet Um, yeah, right? So Chris what's up. 05:31.64 Bill White Um, yeah. 05:36.30 Chris Okay, so I think I'll just close out this segment with ah with a little comment that brings it full circle back to what something bill was mentioning in segment one and that is you know like like Heather's saying too. What's the reason for the data recovery? Well you know? well the reason for even going there to begin with is. Preservation right? I mean that's the whole That's the whole thing we're trying to do here is preservation. So what's the best way to preserve a site is it to avoid it is it to dig it all up because it's they're going to go deep enough that they're going to do. They're going to destroy it or is it to. 05:56.41 Heather Right. 06:07.58 Heather Um. 06:10.21 Chris You know and and native americans I know would prefer this in most cases is it to just cap the site off if it's not going to be impacted like Bill was saying. Are you not going to the levels of the of the cultural significance are you not hitting those levels with your disturbance then just cap it off no one's ever going to see it again probably but that's fine. 06:14.12 Heather Yes. 06:15.38 Bill White Yeah. 06:24.82 Heather Bright. Yeah. 06:29.94 Bill White Um, yeah. 06:29.95 Chris That's usually the way people prefer it. You know so of of course yeah. 06:30.40 Heather Sometimes that's not you know that's not feasible right? That are an archeological cap is considered is considered avoidance at least in some area right? That's avoidance. So but if it's not if that's not feasible then. 06:33.56 Bill White Sure. 06:40.80 Chris Um, yeah. 06:41.70 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:43.20 Bill White Um, yeah. 06:46.73 Chris Exactly I would say in in modern buildings these days. It's really hard to to sell that because these things go down so deep because they're big. They're heavy. They need big footings and foundations the chances of you you know, staying above any sort of cultural layer is probably pretty slim. 06:47.30 Heather That's where the data recovery The actual excavation comes in. But. 06:48.18 Bill White Totally. 06:56.38 Bill White Yeah. 06:58.95 Heather Um, right. 07:05.47 Bill White Yeah, you know, but but in a case where you're only building a Walmart that's going to have you know a two hundred Thousand Square foot footprint but the rest is going to be parking lot. 07:05.78 Heather Right? And also. 07:06.20 archpodnet Right. 07:06.27 Chris But it's still a possibility I Guess yeah. 07:17.64 Heather Right? Egg right? I actually that was 1 thing that I think is important to really quickly define what does feasible mean because people are going to say well you everything's feasible. Everything's of avoidable, right? Just don't do it. 07:19.40 Bill White Perhaps we only excavate right? where they're going to put in the Walmart and all its utility lines. 07:22.63 Chris Yeah. 07:37.65 Heather Well, that's not the case and people don't realize that there's so many other factors that come into play when it comes to development So when we're doing development especially with the housing crisis. We have right now if you have a piece of property you have to have a certain amount of you know you have to have a certain amount of um. 07:45.23 archpodnet Um, yeah. 07:50.51 Bill White Um, yeah. 07:57.44 Heather Say you know, housing units right? within your your plot in order to you know, get a grant or in order to meet a certain regulation and then that leads to you know sometimes you have limitations you can only have a building a certain height and then you have you know the limitations as far as. Ah, requirements when it comes to parking and having have a certain amount of parking so it is absolutely ah, possible to have a you know situation where you cannot avoid a resource and so now obviously you can be no. Ah also. 08:18.51 Bill White Are. 08:19.35 archpodnet Yeah. 08:29.60 Bill White Um, yeah. 08:35.29 Heather You have things for you have to have infrastructure you have to have utility trenches. All these things are are are factors that come into play So sometimes I think people are like it's hard to understand how come you can't avoid it. How come that's not feasible that doesn't make sense. Of course it's avoidable. Just don't do it? Well it doesn't. 08:36.89 Bill White Yeah. 08:48.97 Bill White Are there. 08:53.16 Heather Always work that way. But obviously you know putting something of a parking lot in an area where resources is always a very good option unless that resource is in an area where you have no choice. 08:54.74 archpodnet Het. 09:02.71 Bill White Um, yeah. 09:05.21 archpodnet Heather I support everything you're saying in all construction just as long as it's not in my backyard. Okay I totally support it though. Yeah I'm totally with you I'm right there. 09:08.41 Heather Okay, thanks for being transparent there Andrew. 09:11.32 Bill White Ah, her. 09:16.78 Chris All right guys? Well the only thing the other thing that's not avoidable is the end of this podcast. So let's ah, take this to ah take this to next exactly let's take this to next time in the meantime help us out by going over to arcpodnet.com/memberscheck out our membership site. 09:20.86 Heather No matter how hard we try. 09:34.73 Chris Um, there may be a little bonus segment from this podcast that that we cut out of everything that you can go find on your bonus pages and with that we will see you guys next time all right keeping it rolling here goes the outro. 09:50.82 Chris Thanks everyone for joining me this week thanks also to the listeners for tuning in and we'll see you in the field goodbye. 09:56.27 Bill White See you later. 09:58.15 Heather Thanks for listening. 09:58.26 archpodnet See you guys next time. 10:04.22 Chris All right? That's you Andrew kill it. Ah. 10:04.43 archpodnet All right? Oh yeah, actually.