00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is Andrew in California on video live and in charge and then doug over in Scotland all right? So first off I got to say because I just saw this a few days ago. 00:05.82 Andrew Hey everybody? how's it going going to you life. 00:12.47 Doug Everyone. 00:19.88 archpodnet We got us give a um, an immemorium message here. RIPArcheologyfieldworkDotCom Jennifer Palmer has decided to close down the site. Um, my wife was saying she thought she saw that last year too. Maybe she tried this once before and just didn't work. Didn't take but. She's been doing this for no money. She's never charged to to put something on there. She's basically you know done all the work herself and she's got some tools and some bots and stuff that bring in jobs from like Usa Jobs and things like that I believe but um, otherwise she's put a lot of work into this thing over the past. Ah, since ninety ninety six I think is is what it says on the website. So yeah. 00:54.50 Doug Jesus I I was just I remember there's a little thing I thought it was like 98 or something. But yeah, that's yeah. 01:00.44 archpodnet Late 90 s sometime. Yeah I know that? yeah, but that's just phenomenal and she needs some kind of an award for that because so many people in this field have gotten jobs off of that website and for some reason I think it's just the name shovel bums seems to be more. I don't know more well known as a word just because of the word shovel Bomb I mean ar Joe Brandon really named it well because of that you know I mean there's yeah. 01:23.58 Doug He also he did a he's done like a lot because you know that's his job so like Jennifer Net as far as I know never charged ever. Um, so and you know it costs her. 01:32.16 archpodnet Ah, oh yeah, no. 01:41.74 Doug You know, not a lot of money for hosting but you know I remember at ah years ago she'd have to go back and like era stuff because she would run out of ah memory on her hosting just to be able to post new jobs and stuff like that. Ah, and so yeah, you know it's costinger. Probably you. 01:54.48 archpodnet Ah. 01:59.31 Doug Couple hundred a year something like that just not including like her time which I got I know how many like hundred k hundreds of thousands of dollars of time she's put into that. Um, yeah, but like yeah so like um. 02:02.31 archpodnet Yeah. 02:09.33 archpodnet Oh yeah, yeah. 02:16.56 Doug Ajo he really has pushed shovel bums a lot at whereas Jev I mean I'm not sure she's ever advertised like as like pushed out the website as as something that um, other than I mean she's has like so she did social media like Twitter and Facebook and groups and stuff like that. But i. 02:20.14 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:24.16 archpodnet Right. 02:33.96 archpodnet Um. 02:35.46 Doug I've never actually seen her go into another group and be like oh hey, this is a service. It's all been like organic where someone's like did you know. 02:40.79 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally and I just you know I really wish somebody could like take over the reins of that to be honest with you and and keep that thing going but right is it does does it take a ah dedicated ah dedicated following and and if not. It would be nice. Maybe if like everybody that I guess follows archaeology fieldwork on different places if they could just suck them up into shovel bumps or something like that. So you don't lose that audience. But if that's not possible. Then yeah. It. Ah it sucks. It's nice to have competition. Not nothing against ar Joe Brandon you know I've talked to him lots of times at different conferences and he's he's a cool guy and like you said he does do shuffle bus as a business which again to keep this thing going I mean you got to you got to have a buy-in right? like if you it's hard to do with a day job. So I totally understand him charging for stuff and wanting to make that his you know his life's work basically but that is another thing too like eventually he's going to stop doing it and does he have employees is there. Anybody's poised to take the reins can somebody buy shovel bums. it's a business you know it's um it's a little scary for our field that we're going to have to rely on you know. Facebook as as job posting if shovel bombs dies too. You know what? I mean so anyway, all right? Well speaking of you know things that should die. Sometimes let's talk about let's let's talk about. Ah. 04:07.30 archpodnet You know all those archeological societies and organizations and things out there that that we all know we're all told to join and at multiple levels from you know the the lowest level sometimes being the state or even regionally within the state if you've got a large state that you live in and working primarily and then up to. You know, regional and sometimes definitely well definitely national associations depending on what your what your preference is for archeology and and and what you do so you know and then and then stuff like rpa right? things like that is are these things effective. Do they do anything Doug you brought this topic up what a more more. Do you have to. Say to introduce this for us. 04:42.94 Doug Ah, ah, well, we're gonna put this in the in the show like um in the links show notes you guys are gonna have to go read this what somewhat inspired this ah with this topic was um, there's on. Well now it's the homeland you know office of Homeland wherever. Um there's an old archived ah book for them. The precursor to the cia. Um, and it's a book on like how to sabotage. Um, you know it was meant for war war two. Ah but's be like a guide to drop into I assume. 05:07.47 archpodnet Okay. 05:21.20 archpodnet Earth. 05:21.27 Doug Occupied France or you know parts of Germany I mean it's all in english so I'm not sure exactly who the audience was I assume at some point they probably translated it. But um I know it's a wonderful little guide. Unlike how to sabotage different. Um you know industry or or. Organizations or processes in our country to slow down. Well at this time the nazis um, but there's ah, there's a section and and there's a section that literally is um, organizations and conferences and I just like you start reading some of these things. 05:46.13 archpodnet Yeah. 06:00.10 Doug And ah Matt it's it's deja vu like a lot of what we see um occur in archeology I mean like just thinking like the very first number one is like insist on doing everything through channels and that's in quotes. Yeah. 06:16.60 archpodnet Ah. 06:16.98 Doug Um, never permit shortcuts to be taken in order to expediate decisions. It's just like man I've seen that many a time where um things are meant to happen people are like whoa whoa whoa. We need to slow down this needs to go to an Agm. 06:24.16 archpodnet Um. 06:35.53 Doug Which is eleven months away. Um, and yeah, it's just like you start reading through a lot of these things um like how to sabotage organizations and meetings and it's a bit eerie. Um, and so that's that's how I come ah came up with the topic is um. 06:36.30 archpodnet Yeah. 06:51.44 archpodnet I. 06:55.30 Doug It's it's something a lot of these tactics I've seen happen over the different years in archeology. Um, and you know a lot of them happen in organizations. Um and professional organizations as well and I think there's a reason for that. Um, but. 07:08.97 archpodnet Ah. 07:12.69 Doug Ah, before we jump into that I was go say have you guys had a chance to read it and ah do you have ah a picture. Ah a favorite one in terms of how you would Um, how do you prefer to sabotage initiatives. Um I think um I try to find the number. Um, one of my favorites. 07:14.86 archpodnet For people. 07:32.20 Doug Is um, ah well active. Two one is like um you know refer back to like previous meeting minutes and reopen everything that was like done over like those that 2 hours that you'd seen in a previous meeting. Um. That's one of my favorite ones I've seen that happen many a time attempt to like redrag something that it's already made a decision on and then there's another one where it's like ah oh yeah, um, when possible refer all matters to committees for further study and consideration in quotes. 08:04.60 archpodnet But. 08:09.82 Doug Um, attempt to make the committees as large as possible never less than 5 um, and yeah I've seen that happen a lot as well. Where um, there'll be a incident and they'll be like oh we need a committee and. Yeah, you guys have probably just heard my daughter yell right through the there hey kinddo hold on I'm I'm in the middle of a podcast. Okay, yeah, well what. 08:27.37 archpodnet Yes. 08:37.22 archpodnet Ah, we have a special guest today people. 08:41.39 Doug Yeah, yeah, I'll my conversation so she can. Ah. 08:41.57 Andrew Um, yes, but is I believe ah Doug I believe your daughter is sabotaging your podcast so she obviously read ah the guide. Yeah. 08:50.13 archpodnet Exactly? Yeah oh my God So I I do I can't remember if you said this one doug so I was pulling it up as you were saying ah but bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible I Really like that one. Yeah, Haggle over Precise wordings of communications minutes and resolutions I don't know how many things I've been in where somebody's like could we reword this.. There's a comma out of place get out of here actually get out of here man. Um. 09:16.12 Doug I Ah sorry guys I'll add in there they one they didn't include was like have a toddler include toddler in your meeting. 09:19.90 archpodnet Right? right? right? Nice nice. 09:26.12 Andrew Set. It's amazing. You know how much quicker world War two would have ended if they just dropped toddlers on D day it would have just been over in a weekend. Ah oh like oh just. 09:34.36 archpodnet I Know total Chaos total chaos. Oh man. Well how does this? Ah yeah, go ahead. 09:41.94 Andrew The list of stuff when you when you look at that publication and it's published in I think like January Nineteen Forty four or something like like it's it's it's really really interesting. It's just it's a long listed depression for any of us who's been. You know in this world you can basically tick all of them I I love that Doug brought this because. 09:47.71 archpodnet Yeah. 10:01.46 Andrew I Would recommend anyone who's been in these kind of meetings which is honestly most of us download this thing dude download this thing read it through or even bring it to the meeting like on your computer or on your phone and like check them off. 10:03.63 archpodnet And. 10:16.47 Andrew As you have to sit through those awful meetings like it would be hilarious and you realize you're checking off a document from World War two designed to sa touch like. 10:24.72 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, there's what one of these here is is directly out of the ah leadership playbook for Crm and it's never passed on your skill and experience to a new or less skill for worker. 10:36.70 Andrew Oh ah, yeah, oh my us. So just it kills me yeah that oh yeah, that one's perfect I Even see that one I'm like looking at the list I like there's the skill set. Oh. 10:40.40 archpodnet Ah, yeah, ah yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty crazy. 10:44.10 Doug I oh yeah, we haven't even got to like that we that was just like the conferences and organizations I even got to like if you're a worker like or if you're a manager I I do feel like yes manager 1 10:52.41 Andrew E. 10:55.18 archpodnet Yeah. 11:03.31 Doug It's a little too close to home. But. 11:03.34 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, oh man, well let's talk about I mean in these in this context then you know what? what we we want to bring up I think we're gonna go to break and we'll talk about this more in depth in segment 2 But you know want to bring up what is the you know what is the reason for these. 11:05.48 Andrew Yeah, yeah, ah that. 11:21.68 archpodnet Conferences and organizations and societiesties that we have and and is is the reason they were started still valid and how can we maybe you know what would we want to see in something like this in the future going forward for the modern society that we live in. We'll talk about that on the other side of the break back in a minute.