00:00.00 Bill White All right everybody welcome back Crm Archeology Podcast episode two seventy nine where this is the Christmas episode. We don't I don't have any of those Jingle Bell sounds things I just noticed watching commercials that there's always jingle bells whenever they talk about any kind of Christmas anything. So. 00:18.72 archpodnet Um, yeah. 00:18.92 Heather Ah, Chris could put it in post. Yeah. 00:19.37 Bill White Yeah, when Chris edits this I hope he adds some Jingle Bell sounds for our Christmas episode so we were talking about you know finances everything this is that's like an unlimited ah um, topic that I I yeah I really wish we could have some kind of more open conversations and maybe not on. Ah. 00:29.75 Heather Discussion. 00:38.60 Bill White Podcast or whatever about people's finances because that is 1 thing that I'm starting to get more and more attuned to maybe it's because my kid's 13 and I'm thinking about college right? So I'm like adding up my little pennies and being like looks like this kid is going to get his own job. But ah, you know we were also talking a little bit about. 00:44.67 Heather And then. 00:50.81 archpodnet Yeah. 00:57.73 Bill White Using that cash to try to get gifts for folks, thoughtful things. Um, you know for ah during Christmas season and I remember that that holidays was a major time when I'd ask my family for stuff that I didn't always. 01:12.92 Heather You know. 01:13.46 Bill White Couldn't afford when I was working things that I needed you know shoes and stuff whereas a lot of times or gift certificates to get backpacks I don't know why but Washington just eats up your backpack. The next thing you know you just have a bag of water on your back I don't I mean yeah, that place just consumes them. But. 01:24.75 Heather Yeah, yes. 01:25.40 archpodnet Um. 01:29.52 Bill White Now that I've moved a little bit further and I'm I'm the one who's buying gifts for other archeologists. There's a couple of things I like to get for students especially when they graduate. Um I taught this class this last semester that was essentially an attempt to teach everything that I could about being an archeological field technician. Without having to go to field school so everything except for digging right? and so they're working on their final project. Their final project is a draft of a California state site form. So that's what they're trying to get done for the last couple weeks but when folks finish school and they decide that they want to go on to. Ah. Ah, do archeology. There's a couple of things that I buy and one of the things I get them is like a graduating gift is a compass with a mirror. Yeah I mean I I just now in the class. yeah yeah I taught folks. How. 02:14.74 Heather Yes, wow, that's a night that's a nice professor Andrew you never got me one of those. Um. 02:22.38 archpodnet You figure it out. Yeah yeah, your own job. Get your own god damn compass. Um, but you know what what I would add to this. What's so funny Bill is that was on my list too is is a is a compass but I just want to say along with the mayor. 02:24.36 Bill White This is yeah. 02:29.81 Heather Ah, then. 02:30.58 Bill White Um, ah were ah oh. 02:39.39 archpodnet Make sure it has an adjustable declination. Um, and and that I I even did a Youtube video on this because people ask me so much and there's the great sunto versus Silva debate and the short answer is so so they're the 2 big brands right? right. 02:40.60 Bill White Yeah. 02:41.44 Heather Declination. Yeah. 02:48.15 Heather Yeah, yeah, yeah. 02:50.23 Bill White Oh so. What's that Oh yeah, I know but. 02:54.20 Heather On that. 02:56.83 archpodnet So the short answer is it's fine if you're a parent getting this for a student or whatever either brand is fine. It's the adjustable declination thing that matters. It's around fifty bucks give or take but um I do find the sunto brand is nicer overall than the Silva brand. That's all that's what I would say they're they're very similar in price. But. 03:02.81 Bill White Ah, yes, yes. 03:03.10 Heather Yes. 03:10.93 Heather I have. 03:13.43 Bill White Oh ah, yeah, okay, because also the other thing too that I want folks, you know that are getting these compasses to think about is that it's a magnetic compass and so sometimes some backpacks have that chest strap that has a little magnet on it. 03:16.34 archpodnet You know your mileage may vary there that was my bit. Yeah. 03:28.78 archpodnet Oh yeah. 03:31.73 Bill White And if you have it hanging around your neck and you've got a backpack with that. Maybe you should just keep it in your pocket right? like maybe you should not have it around your neck all the time because that little magnet could be interfering with it and then the other thing the bubble and I never have gotten clear confirmation like when you're going from C level and you go to high altitude. 03:32.65 Heather And then. 03:37.25 archpodnet She totally. 03:50.14 Bill White Or if you fly with your compass. Sometimes it has a bubble in it. Do you all know how to get that thing out. 03:54.80 archpodnet I Don't think you can I think you just live with it. You know because it's because it's a bubble inside the oil that's in there. 04:01.47 Bill White Ah, yeah I know and so sometimes if you so if you fly with it sometimes it'll just go back when you get back to sea level. It'll just the bubble just absorbs and it goes away. Maybe someone who's listening this can give me more information about like how you can get it out or whatever because I worked with someone who 1 time was like. 04:07.14 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 04:13.93 archpodnet Right. 04:20.38 Bill White Oh god this thing is rubbish now because it's got a bubble in it and I was kind of like well we're out here and so this is the compass you have I don't know what else to say like we're gonna have to use it and working with other folks. You know you got 4 or 5 people. They all have compasses if yours has a bubble in it I never noticed that it was like. 04:27.47 archpodnet Um, yeah, and. 04:37.50 Bill White An insane amount of difference I know that if your declination is off then you really need to adjust it because you're you're going to really screw things up and be running into people in the middle of the desert because you're not following the right bearing anymore because your thing is off but the bubble one I don't know so you're saying it doesn't affect it or doesn't I don't know. 04:41.99 archpodnet Yeah, ah. 04:44.91 archpodnet Um, I have right. 04:51.32 archpodnet I haven't I've never noticed an effect now I and I'm I've gone pretty deep down into the mapping world but I could be right? You know this can be something new to I mean look my look I do have a Ph D Okay and it was largely on archeological survey. Okay, um, but ah, you know I can be. Completely and utterly wrong. Um, but in my experience and I've had some compasses with some you know with some medium bubbles in them and it didn't seem to affect the situation because I would think the compasses works based on magnetism and the bubble would be immaterial. It just might affect. Its. That it's sweep being not as smooth or something like that. But yeah, yeah. 05:29.70 Bill White Yeah, because it'll be kind of rocky right? when the bubble it'll push it down and move it. But once the bubble gets out of the way then and you can also like move your compass slightly over so the bubble goes over and then your arrow is still pretty true. Yeah. 05:34.53 Heather Um, just fake it a little bit. Yeah, right. 05:36.99 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, and in seriousness I've had couples with compasses with bubbles in it and I've gone long way you know in the Jungle and I've gotten to the correct spot with the so it. 05:50.19 Bill White Okay. 05:53.16 archpodnet In my 1 person experience on that it it seemed to be fine. But I yeah I would be curious to see if it makes any difference you. 05:58.57 Bill White Yeah I don't know enough I guess right? and and the other thing like too because um, it's not just that like sometimes they just they aren't reading right? You know I don't know what to say like sometimes the magnet just like the the needle over years or something like that. It seems to me like sometimes it's off. 05:59.12 Heather Nice. 06:05.89 archpodnet Again. 06:14.71 Bill White And you'll have one that's kind of brand new and one that's a little bit older and it's just like 1 or ° off so I'm in the habit of kind of my sons and the boy scouts too. So we've got like just stacks of compasses. Basically at this point right? because I just. 06:17.23 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:23.49 archpodnet Right. 06:27.47 Bill White Have a bubble I buy one then I bring it back to sea level then it doesn't I'm like oh this thing's good to go you know and put it in a backpack. There's like 1 forever you know here you can take 1 I take 1 and then buying them for students too I got some that are in the package still ready for them to graduate. They can take it and go right? because once again I get paid once a month so 06:30.38 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:35.42 archpodnet Um, yeah. 06:45.25 archpodnet Yep, yeah. 06:46.62 Bill White But they they they graduate at the end of a month and I won't get baied until you know they'll already be. They'll already be um, out there. Yeah so the other thing too that I tend to get now and I'm going to get more often because the company for so little little while there just like wasn't around. Or I tried to buy 1 once and I couldn't find it but the the weather writer or the um paper dry clipboards man the ones that has the little ah raising and lowering lid that you can see through for the class that I taught this last semester I bought like 10 of them and then I put some of the. 07:10.91 Heather Let. 07:10.99 archpodnet Um, ah yeah. 07:16.90 Heather So yeah. 07:23.70 Bill White Oh another word on the compasses too on Amazon there is a wide range of products those like $14 mirrored compasses are not as good. Those things are really crummy now they were good for the class because we were only walking about 30 or forty yards and it was really about people. 07:26.20 archpodnet Yes, no bad. Yeah. 07:29.68 Heather Um, yeah, no. 07:41.48 Bill White Learning how to set the declination and do all the stuff but I'm not joking like they had bubbles in them. They were like wildly off the the clanometer to figure out the angle. The vertical angle was like off by ° they're they're really crappy. You should go with what Andrew is recommending a sun toe or a Silva. 07:56.49 archpodnet Um, yep. 07:56.66 Heather Yes. 08:00.17 Bill White 1 of those ones like pay fifty sixty seventy dollars on one of them. Don't buy the $14 one. You know that I got I got a bunch of them and they're really crappy but they'll do the job for this class I would not want to have that for my actual career now on the other hand Amazon does have a bunch of those. Kind of weather writer clipboard type things and if you you know, check it out I'll we'll try to put links to these things in the show notes. But if you do look on Amazon there is a huge range and those ones didn't seem like the quality was that bad to get the cheaper. You know $20 one over the $40 but I'm telling you I buy those they overtime sadly, the. 08:33.21 archpodnet Um. 08:39.27 Bill White Plastic gets brittle and it kind of cracks. So I you know you do have to keep buying them, especially if you're using them every single day but the clipboard I know we're moving into Chris is probably going to you know freak out when he hears that I'm even recommending a clipboard for paper right? that you would even in any way need paper in the future. But. 08:53.60 archpodnet No way I'm I'm with you bill a Clipboard is great and solid. Yes, simple clipboard is fantastic I make all my students get 1 come on. Yeah. 08:59.70 Heather Um, no, there's still, there's still a role. There's still a role. Yeah for sure. 08:59.57 Bill White Ah, a $20 clipboard yeah Yeah exactly yeah yes, okay yeah, so those are the 2 things that for Christmas if I'm giving them out to presents to archeologists or whatever. 09:12.11 Heather Got boom. 09:17.68 Bill White Um, or if you're thinking about getting a present for another archeologist. Those are 2 things that you should definitely think about I mean I use them all the time I've been using them for 1520 years both of those items you know they're really good archeology tools. 09:20.66 archpodnet Yeah. 09:21.72 Heather Yes. 09:29.61 Heather Yep, another compass is the Brunton date. Yeah, they're good. They do tend to be pretty pricey but ah, but yeah, but if you want to get to that next level mom and dad want to get you a really nice one. 09:30.46 archpodnet Um, yeah, are checking but they are amazing but super expensive. 09:31.55 Bill White Yes. 09:39.90 Bill White Yes. 09:45.20 archpodnet Um, yeah. 09:46.86 Heather But get them like some kind of carrier something things so they don't leave it on some ah rock somewhere ah on a fields day. That's never fun. Um, so I have one. It's I have 3 but I guess hope. 09:48.97 Bill White Yeah. 09:54.97 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:02.66 Heather Should we just give one each and go around or just I'll give all 3 right now. Okay, okay so the one was the the picture book we're going to put the link in in the show notes. 10:03.99 Bill White Oh no, yeah, go ahead lay all 3 on us we can handle it. 10:06.60 archpodnet Um, yeah, this bell for it. Yeah. 10:15.29 Heather Um, I'll give a few suggestions but you can be paying like Bill said as little as Eleven Ninety Nine ah for these books and and then they can go up from there but these are books that you don't even have to be creative if you're not creative and you can go. 10:20.74 Bill White So wow. 10:32.47 Heather Like 2 different ways you can say okay, you know what people may not. There's mom and dad and Grandma grandpa that are going to want to see you in the pictures. But maybe there's friends that you really want to give a nice gift to and you could take yourself out and it's just a scenery book of some some like we do we do some surveys in some pretty cool areas that other people would never even get these shots. So I think that um and sometimes we just get these shots by accident. So ah, you be surprised even if you're not somebody who's always taking those like scenery shots. You may have some pretty good ones in there. And that would be something and then you don't even have to be creative like I said you can just give the pictures to these programs and they will create them for you. They'll create kind of a mosaic they'll they'll format them and put them in different. You know, interesting. You know so whatever. Formats and different sizes and stuff and then if you want you can put um little captions on it but you can get as creative or not as you want to? That's an easy gift I would say you need to kind of I would do that a couple weeks before Christmas unless you're chipping. Maybe even a little bit. Earlier than that that that is a good gift. My next gift is ah Rei um I mean I'm sure there's others that that had these classes but I think a rei is really great if you know we talk about this on the podcast quite a bit. 11:49.73 archpodnet Um. 12:07.40 Heather Um, where people are not unfortunately not everyone has Andrew or bill is their professor and they're not learning the skills that they need to learn in art to go into the field. So one you know these. 12:17.40 archpodnet Ah, ah. 12:21.24 Heather They had these great like I'm right now on their site. They have a background a back country navigation and map and compass class. They have winter navigation with a map encompass. They have just a regular map encompass workshop and these range for about $30 per class to $80 per class. So if you. 12:41.40 Heather If you hear or maybe even your your um, the perfect gift E is um, just starting out and you know it doesn't hurt so our navigation the way we there's different types of Navigation. So What an archeologist does. Is different than let's say military and how they navigate but understanding and having a good ah practice with a compass and maps will help you no matter what situation you're you you need navigation for so that I think is another good gift and it's not expensive. 13:18.80 Heather And then for the ladies sorry men but I have I have to do it because I'm the only lady on the podcast. So for the ladies I found out. There is a new new I think there are a few years old but there's this company called Nara I think it's it's spelled g and a ra. And they have a what do they call it? Um, how ah let me see they caught they have a certain name for it. It is called she fly go there. Pant. 13:51.24 Heather It is a pair of field pants. They're stretchy. They're made out of that that nice material that you do not have to drop your drawers to go to the bathroom in the great outdoors and there's some pretty good reviews on it. So that might be a good option for a gift for your female archeologist and that those are my 3. 14:13.84 Bill White I Love it that? Yeah yeah, yeah. 14:16.49 archpodnet Cool, yeah, those are good. So um, and I love the rei thing too I didn't I didn't realize that you know and there's so many students now who've taken so many classes online like I've actually had a student who's in my Saturday my field class. She had her she has her b a but she it was entirely online. She got in touch with me a while back and she was like can Kea I want some on ground experience. So she's taking the on ground classes just to get the experience. Yeah, and I think the ah rei think can do that same thing for people. It's like no, you need to? yeah. 14:39.86 Heather Great. Yeah, it's in person. Yeah, they take you out and teach you. Yeah so I think yeah I think and I'm sure there's other options but ah Rei I mean the pretty their classes are pretty good. Um. 14:48.15 Bill White Yeah. 14:48.46 archpodnet That's awesome. 14:52.67 archpodnet Um, yeah, totally yeah I think that's. 14:55.65 Heather And they're taught by people who are true outdoors people. Yeah, they do? yeah. 14:58.90 Bill White And yeah, and and and they have a lot of stores right? So you know 50% at least of us live within a you know range of an ah Rei store. 15:07.30 Heather Yeah I actually worked on a project where we were taught how to repel. Um because we had to repel in a certain areas. So um, which is just you know liability central. But but but we did have to do it and so. 15:07.67 archpodnet Um, yeah. 15:12.36 archpodnet Oh right on. 15:14.62 Bill White Huh Wo oh. 15:19.44 archpodnet Yeah, whatever cool. 15:25.31 Heather That was really fun, but that might be an option I mean that those you can probably I would say 50% at least if archeologists are pretty good or outdoors people and even if it's not practical to every archeology project. It certainly would be a fun class too. So um, like repelling classes and that sort of thing would be I think would be a great gift. 15:42.90 archpodnet Totally. 15:49.53 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, are. 15:51.80 Bill White Well and I remember when I lived in Tucson too. Ah, our wilderness first aid class was pretty much through ah rei. 15:57.63 Heather So. 15:59.95 archpodnet Oh yeah, yeah, okay, um, it's good. So for I guess me I got to do I got to do my ah my three man. Um, so ah yeah I I think Heather is great I think ah, Bill. The compass is great I had that on here. Oh just to the listeners. The um. The difference between um, this aunto and a silver those are around the $50 world a brunton compass which are awesome god I think they've got to be $300 or in that realm I will say they exude quality I remember my bruton compass the um it had a leather pack like a little leather. 16:27.60 Heather Yes, yes. 16:36.96 archpodnet Ah, envelope sort of that it came in and I swear to God that was the thickest most supple like they killed a major cow for that leather. So ah, yeah, just not it just yeah, it exuded quality it. It felt like it was made by a cobbler in in. 16:44.31 Heather It will last you your whole career. A Broughtton will seriously last you? Yeah yeah. 16:55.43 archpodnet London in like 1910 yeah it's like was so nice just so you know, um, other things on my list I just have sort of a grab bag of things these these tend to be a little bit more expensive but like like a moncell book is kind of nice to have but they they're up yeah 200 or so but. 16:56.30 Heather Austria right. 17:07.73 Heather You about 200 yeah you can buy the sheets. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a cheaper way to go? yep. 17:12.84 Bill White Um, yeah, yeah, you can get individual sheets 10 and 7.5 those are 2 solid pages. 2 solid pages. Yeah. 17:14.17 archpodnet Man it's nice. Yep yeah up to that's right? Oh my god seven point five y are yeah but those that you know any archeologist just been working out for a while you know what? it's like if you just have your own. You're have to deal with it. Um. 17:29.58 Bill White Yeah, like. 17:32.55 archpodnet Ah, even I would even let this is another one for sort of the advanced archaeologists who who would drive to a site you know in their truck a breaker bar you like you don't need a breaker bar until you're the hero who has a breaker bar. Um, yeah, but yeah, but ah. 17:39.13 Bill White Oh yeah. 17:43.22 Heather Um, yeah, that's under 50 Yeah, that's definitely even under 40 Yeah. 17:44.64 Bill White Yeah, that is under 50 a steel bar. It's called us in a home depot thing. It's called a San Angelo bar so if you if you type in Breaker Bar Home Depot doesn't know what it is. It's called a San Angelo bar as its real name. 17:52.19 archpodnet Ah, nice right? Yeah, that's right? but the big one the bigger the but get the big ass. You know? Yep yep. 17:54.55 Heather Yes, to right? why. With a pointy on one side and flat on the other and those can't be ground by the way you can sharpen those? yeah. 18:05.81 Bill White Flat on the other. 18:11.78 Bill White And woe. 18:13.21 archpodnet Yeah, um, so there are those those are just it's like you will use it once every three years but damn when you do you know though? Yeah, that's true. There'll be a point where you then use it all the time. Um. 18:19.40 Bill White Yeah, yeah, have you? yeah. 18:21.70 Heather Ah, depending on where you work you use it everything I yeah. 18:28.49 archpodnet And then ah, let's is is that is that my 3 oh I did have one more this is this is another one that comes in handy like ah like a little sunshade like a wiki up like sunshade there is there there as cheap as like so yeah from from your home depot. Whatever the cheapest ones are about sixty bucks 18:36.33 Bill White Oh cool. 18:37.83 Heather Then that's that's a good idea. 18:45.66 archpodnet They do fall apart over time. But the last for a while. But yeah and if you guys get it. They're about you know they're about six six feet by six feet or so you know maybe eight feet by eight feet ah Ah anything in that range works fine. It's just those sunsh shades that pop up you know four legs. Um. 18:48.60 Heather 2 19:02.11 archpodnet The more the more you spend the higher quality. It'll be but those are nice. You know you're in an area. 19:02.36 Bill White Yeah. 19:03.51 Heather And then you can you can guarantee that your gift tea will be hated by everybody else in the field while they're sitting under a sunshade. Everybody else is sweating it out but you know whatever. 19:10.79 archpodnet Um, totally yeah yeah, but did if but if you're in a place where you're just working like day to day week by week. It's always sunny. You know it's nice to just be able to bust one of those out every day. 19:13.75 Bill White Ah, ah yeah, ah. 19:22.16 Bill White Yeah, yeah, yeah, those are those are good. Yeah, because if you can bring those things with you I mean those because they are like you said brittle they do break like the plastic. 19:24.40 Heather Yeah, yeah, yeah. 19:28.55 archpodnet Yeah mm. 19:36.16 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, and the legs the legs have have such crappy metal that they when once they bend they you know they don't hold. But. 19:37.48 Bill White Joints on them snap right? So that's always its weakness. That's the weakness of them. Yeah, yeah, so it's always like. Do you get the cheapy knowing that at the end of the project. That's pretty much the end of it or do you try to cobble them together for a while I don't know I'm kind of on the like. 19:49.61 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah I would yeah. 19:55.62 Bill White Try to get the better one and cobble it along to not throw away a metal and you know not throw yet another thing away. But then you spend a whole bunch of time drilling and using wire to rebuild these plastic joints to build. But I mean. 20:06.62 archpodnet Um, yep. 20:09.48 Bill White Either which way if you got them, you got them. You know what I'm saying and and if you if you have the option to be out of the sun in a place like Arizona or the virgin islands. Do it all right? Those are those are quite a few options. You know those are I think those are pretty good. Affordable you know choices that are. 20:11.68 archpodnet It's nice. Ah yeah, mm. 20:26.81 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 20:29.32 Bill White Really useful for archeologists I think this is also a good time for us to take a short break and we'll come back with our last segment.