00:01.98 archpodnet Welcome back to episode two eighty the crm archeology podcast the first one of 2024 we're really ah really jumping up there in times crazy I know so. 00:08.23 Bill White Yeah, I'm glad they don't see our face. We're just aging away I mean Adam it looks great but you and I are just you know, withering away. You know. 00:15.45 Heather Um, yeah, thanks yeah. 00:18.47 archpodnet I I don't know Bill I'm going to be 15 like a year and a half and I still have any gray hair. My wife hates me for that because she's forty and is like you know, loaded with gray hair. She can't be right now. 00:23.84 Bill White What? Okay well, that's just me then I guess I'm the one who's withering away I was looking at some pictures from like four or five years ago who's that guy you know what's going on here man geez now I look like father time and it's only been like 5 years 00:34.32 Heather Um, you know that and. 00:37.69 archpodnet Nice, nice man all right? Well we are basically just kind of chit chatting here about end of the year beginning of the year and and doing things and you know one of the things I wanted to pick up here too was obviously. These um shit I totally lost it. Oh yeah, one of the things I wanted to pick up here too was some of these firms. You know we talked about diversification of your of what your firm does not only your own skillset. You should always diversify that you know whether it's diversified within the field of archeology or to fit diversified within and without. The field with outside the field of archeology right? So you've got some side hustle stuff that you know could be a ah savior in times of need. So that being said I just got to mention chronicle heritage heritage the former paleo west these guys seem to be freaking everywhere at this point right. 01:29.47 Heather Um, yeah, um. 01:32.48 archpodnet I mean I know people that are working in Saudi Arabia on projects that they're working on they're they're just getting contract after contract in Saudi Arabia because they're doing so much work over there and they need people to actually do the work they have lost. They have cm regulations and they need somebody to do that and they don't have a lot of people in country apparently that. 01:37.76 Bill White Um. 01:49.69 archpodnet Can do that kind of work logistically right? So chronicical heritage put up their hand applied for the projects and and now they're just working over there consistently for the last couple of years and then well yeah, a com a comes a big engineering firm. But the thing about chronicle heritage that gets me is their archeology right? and they are They are. 01:57.95 Heather Um, so a comes in there for a while. But yeah, what you' 02:00.30 Bill White Yeah. 02:05.36 Heather Yes, if. 02:08.97 archpodnet They started as ah, a smallish you know archpeer archeology firm and then just grew up that way and now they're buying other archeology firms. They were bought by a big firm. So now they're chronicle heritage and and 1 of the thing I'll mention real quick before heather jumps in here is the reason I'm thinking about them right now is I saw an article on Apple News just the other day. 02:13.13 Heather Yes. 02:14.21 Bill White Yep. 02:18.71 Bill White Yep. 02:28.37 archpodnet About I don't know if you guys know that horrific show the curse of Oak Island where they're trying to find that treasure up in Nova Scotia and they just like just like for 10 years or whatever it is. They just keep digging saying I'm sure we're going to fight it this year they just like keep digging but apparently they well I mean I actually met. 02:33.99 Heather Um, oh yeah, well people keep watching so. 02:38.14 Bill White Ah, ah yeah, ah. 02:46.74 archpodnet Through this other business that I do a producer on that show and ah and he said he said you know off the record because I'm not going to name him but he's he's like you know they do find treasure every year. It's in their bank account every year they find treasure. But yeah, but they do um. 02:48.60 Heather Oh. 03:00.72 Bill White Down totally. Ah. 03:01.35 Heather Um, name plan. 03:04.58 archpodnet So anyway the thing I thought was interesting is they named this article was talking about an archaeologist that was on the season that was just released apparently the most recent season. Whatever that is and ah they they did this little bio on her and she's an archeologist with chronicle heritage and she was hired by curs of Oak Island to be there. 03:19.00 Heather Um, yeah. 03:19.60 Bill White Um, right on. 03:22.48 archpodnet Archeological representative for any cultural finds they may they may find there and and that's again, that's no shade on her. It's a wacky crazy project. But it's still a project with heavy construction equipment that is digging up stuff in a heavily native American lived area therefore you need to do crm. So. 03:26.11 Bill White Um, okay. 03:33.84 Bill White yeah yeah I mean they I'm glad they because like I can totally see how Hollywood could skirt past that I guess I don't know is is discovery channel hollywood whatever I think that they could probably get away with it, especially if they're on private property. But. 03:37.28 Heather But I'm glad that they did that. Yeah. 03:40.54 archpodnet Yeah. 03:45.17 archpodnet Right? Ah, you know? yeah. 03:52.31 Bill White Interesting times now that these shows do have a consulting archaeologist on board. 03:55.71 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 03:57.96 Heather Well I think um, you know there's been a few shows right? that we've seen come along that really came under fire for doing some inappropriate things and so I think that you know it's a it's a Ah, it's a small cost to um, limit their liability in that way. So that's. 04:03.20 Bill White Yeah. 04:09.74 archpodnet M. 04:12.50 Bill White Yeah, well I mean the show gets the cancel. It gets canceled when we watch them. You know Rip burials and stuff like that did they just? yeah. 04:16.23 Heather Was right right? and then you know, just so some background. Um I can't share a whole lot. But you know Saudi Arabia um I did some consulting for. 04:18.76 archpodnet Yeah. 04:35.54 Heather Um, for the the prints there. Um, they were originally going to have um so they had academic archeologists out there and unfortunately they had some stealing of of um, some artifacts. Um, and you know foreign. 04:39.85 archpodnet Yeah. 04:45.74 archpodnet Right. 04:55.44 Heather Archeologists were coming in and they were taking artifacts and taking them back and I'm thinking myself of all countries. That's one country I wouldn't mess with like I wouldn't be I don't know what that person was thinking but um and I don't never know what happened to them but I don't think I would if I'm going to steal artifacts from anywhere. It certainly wouldn't be Saudi Arabia but 04:56.20 archpodnet Is. 05:12.60 archpodnet Yeah. 05:14.93 Heather Um, ah the repercussions. There are just not worth it. Um, but so in the meet. What's that? Yeah yeah, so um, so in the beginning you know, even a couple years ago they had no, they really didn't have any cultural resource management. 05:20.50 archpodnet I've seen Aladdin I've seen Aladdin they'll cut your hand off so you know. 05:34.44 Heather Regulations or laws or anything like that. Um for a long time. It was just academics that were coming in and doing that work and so they were looking. They were looking around specifically at the United States and looking for opportunities to create a cultural heritage management program. 05:35.25 archpodnet He. 05:50.57 Heather And they literally in 2 to 3 years have gone on super drive I mean like you know, um and have created what they have right now and it's still you know evolving. But when I was acting as a consultant and creating. Um you know working with them to at least. 05:53.46 archpodnet Up. 06:10.31 Heather Get an idea of what it was that they're going to have to do in order to create a workable program ah program. Um, they you know a ecom was out there at the time and then you're right? all of a sudden paleo West or chronicle heritage went out there but they were really desperate for. 06:17.26 archpodnet Ah. 06:28.83 Heather Um, archeologists that were coming from the Crm side. They realized that the academic archeologists were a different sort of archeology and so um, they were looking for something that not only would help them manage and and set up regulations to protect their their heritage. 06:36.10 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 06:46.94 Heather But also to use that heritage while they're protecting it to also create um ah tourism and so you know that business side of things. Everything is a business right now in Saudi Arabia the whole thing is about you know, gaining tourists. So. 06:53.50 archpodnet Blue. 07:04.76 archpodnet 4 Yeah. 07:06.94 Heather Um, so you know chronicle heritage jumped in and they got you know they got a piece of the pie but they're not the only ones but they're they are growing exponentially because of it. Um, but there's there's other people that are involved. It's they're not the only ones. 07:15.55 archpodnet Sure. 07:16.12 Bill White Well I mean this is something too that I saw I used to work for a company when I first moved to Tucson and they had projects in Senegal and I was just so pumped up for the chance to you know, go and work on these international projects. 07:19.97 archpodnet No. 07:35.10 Bill White And then it just kind of turned into you know the people who had ph ds and the ones who were buddies with the owner they were the ones who really got to go to Mongolia and Senegal and the rest of us just got to go to like you know Parker Arizona to look around. You know so we didn't we didn't get to do any of that kind of stuff. But um. 07:44.61 Heather Um, and. 07:53.43 Bill White I I did I saw back then the total potential because you know unesco has laws the world bank and the imf they have laws on you know, disturbing cultural heritage and stuff and ah you know the rule is that it's supposed to be conducted by the country that the project's going down in if it's funded by the world Bank or the imf. 08:08.62 Heather Right. 08:12.61 Bill White Or the country who's doing the lead on the design or the construction whichever has more stringent cultural resources laws. So I can absolutely see how these companies from all around the area that are working on these infrastructure projects in Saudi Arabia they they probably in the void when they don't have cultural laws. Folks could get away with a bunch of stuff now they beef up their laws and their laws are more stringent than these other construction companies or other contractors. They've hired and so now they're they're doing. You know they've increased their crm nexus and so the the prime candidate are european countries in the United States 08:37.62 Heather Me. 08:49.70 Bill White That have crm already built that have folks that know how to do it. So do you ever see a kind of like endless summer type of job where you can just you know oh man we're working over here in California now oh we're headed to Florida up now. We're off to ah you know Nigeria and then we're going to head on back around to ah um, ah, um. 08:49.14 Heather Um, right. 09:02.90 Heather Right. 09:08.58 Bill White I don't know Indonesia and then we're back in California. Do you see that kind of happening where people can just kind of go around the world Northern Hemisphere southern hemisphere just traveling from project to project and like you know how would you? How would you craft that dream job because I can see how. 09:14.79 Heather I Definitely yeah I definitely know. 09:23.75 Bill White Folks would get burned out go into you know the middle of Kansas and then moving on to Iowa and then moving on to like you know Missouri and being like gosh when is the end of this dig in shovel probes. But what if you could level up to the point where you just. 09:27.50 Heather Um, yeah. 09:37.85 Bill White Travel all around the world and do archeology I mean how how could you build a career like that I've never even envisioned that until just now and. 09:44.54 Heather Well I think I mean it definitely have to have a pneumadic sense to you. You have to be okay with doing that. Um, but I think there's a lot of us in this in this business that um, actually that's part of the attraction of the of archeology is that nomadic. Um. 10:00.34 archpodnet You know. 10:01.70 Heather Lifestyle so to speak if you can afford to do it right? Um, it's hard if you have a family but I think that um, there's so many countries out there that do not have proper heritage management programs. You know, being protected by unesco and everything that's just I mean it's like comparing. Um, areas in the United States that are really just had the federal laws and don't have many state laws. It's it's a world a difference between a place that is only protected by federal laws and let's say California so you know there's so much growth potential. Um. I do think that hopefully there's going to be some controls there because you do need people that are going to be. You can't have just people going in and doing work and not having any experience in the region or at least being supervised by people with experience in the region. So hopefully um, you know as these heritage management programs grow. 10:42.75 Bill White So then. 10:55.31 Heather That there is some structure in there to make sure there's oversight by people who really do know the area and know the region. Um, you know what was interesting to me when I was involved in this in the beginning and I could have gone to Saudi Arabia but at the time my mom was ailing and I I didn't want to leave her for an extended period of time. So I chose not to do that and I what I did was just from a remote spot but Saudi Arabia was focusing on so they have careers that are based on um sex so you have. Males tend to have 1 type of career females tend to have another type of career of some of that a lot of of that is because you're separating the the sexes um and not having too much intermingling. Although some of that is changing now. But even when I was working just a couple years ago the idea was that archeology was going to be a female based ah which I thought was interesting. Um a female based discipline I don't know if that's where Saudi Arabia is still going. It seems like and and their ambition when I was working with them was that they wanted to. Ah, train their own people so that their own people could do the archeology and that eventually americans it wouldn't be the americans or or westerners that were coming in and doing the archeology that they were being trained. They were training their own people to do it and then eventually they wouldn't be dependent. 12:22.68 Heather On foreigners coming in ideal. Yes, right. 12:24.35 Bill White I Mean that's the that's the brilliant pathway to be you know self-sustaining and also build up your own infrastructure to me. It just seems like this is like a prime ah position for like folks who are Ph D students right? because I can see how in the beginning. 12:39.62 Heather Um. 12:41.20 Bill White Because you are kind of the person who has to come in and work with you know, local folks who have that cultural knowledge but also have that knowledge of the Archeology. So I can see how they'd be more willing to hire people with Ph Ds because that whole you know degree thing going on right. But I can absolutely see how once it had been started up then it would be the same a similar tier here where there's folks that are from those local countries. There's folks that have masters and other things and you know it kind of turns into a different image of what we have here. So I mean it just envisions like that would be the easiest pathway. 13:12.10 Heather There I would say yes I mean I would agree but Ph D it cannot. It's not going to be able to come from just an academic sense. You know they're going to have to have an understanding of the regulatory side of things. 13:17.88 Bill White Um, just. 13:24.77 Bill White Yes, yeah. 13:31.56 Heather And this is where you know we harp on this a lot but this is where you know academics are going to have to start opening up their minds to to understanding the regulatory side of things. Um, because if they're going to be involved in these countries. That's where it's going. So. 13:45.59 Bill White Well some other day we'll talk about academics and where their heads are ah it I know but I don't I don't see any universities are not thinking about that or thinking. So. 13:49.27 Heather But I do think it's an optimum. It's a it's a great opportunity but they they can't just come in. Yeah yeah. 14:02.69 Bill White You know folks I've said it many times like you won't see any change come from a University you're going to see it come from the industry and from the students and people new hires and everyone else you'll never see Academia change its gazes from anywhere but it's belly button. So. 14:05.56 Heather Um, no, um, yes. 14:17.11 archpodnet Okay, well on that cheery note let's go to the segments and we'll come back and wrap this up on the other side back in a minute. 14:19.49 Heather Um. 14:35.00 Heather I haven't even gotten the question yet. It's still recording on my end. 14:46.29 Heather Um, Alert ah success reconnected. Maybe it was off what's weird. Okay. 15:02.21 Heather Um, it says on it says I'm connected out just checking the internet is connected. 15:13.65 Heather Oh death.