00:02.75 archpodnet Welcome back to Theerm Archeology podcast episode 281 and we're wrapping up this segment by thinking about the new challenges that we might face in the field in the next ten years what are some things that you know maybe we haven't had to deal with that as ah in ah in our ever changing world that we may. Have to deal with him I First saw heather this note that you wrote here I was first thinking, especially since we just spent you know a month and a half with my um, my wife's family and you know her parents were not her mom necessarily too much but her dad's like always got Fox News on and so I get exposed to that every time I go over there. I guess no shade on anybody listens to Fox News it's just not my thing but it just made me think that it seems like politically ah the world in in the United States here especially and you really see this out west is getting. Even more polarized than it has been in the past I mean it's always you meet these landowners that are out here in the west and they're in the middle of nowhere. They're there for a reason right? They want to be in the middle of nowhere but it seems like this mistrust of the government mistrust of authority and regulation and and all those sorts of things is just getting worse and worse and worse. You'd think it would get. I don't know better and people would come together as we go forward in society but it's really not and you know we can talk about reasons for that on some other podcast and some other show but I would say that it just seems like it's getting worse and worse. So I think those kinds of things are going to start getting probably more dangerous for archaeologists as well. 01:21.23 Heather Um, yeah. 01:26.80 Heather Move. Okay. 01:29.63 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 01:29.89 archpodnet As we go through time and we're really going to have to be. We're really going to have to be prepared and have our shit together when it comes to what we're going to say and be prepared and you know you always have these prefield talks with like your Pi or something like that. That's like oh we might find meates and these kinds of features but you also might find you know. 01:45.83 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 01:46.25 archpodnet Jackasses with shotguns and that really needs to be talked about and what is your response to that You know we always say oh if you get heat stress do this if you get that kind of safety is talked about a lot but I don't remember when I was really involved in those conversations. The the discussions with landowners being. It was always kind of glossed over just a little bit but I think it's going to have to. 01:50.95 Heather Right. 01:53.23 Andrew Kinkella Um, me. 02:01.96 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 02:03.76 archpodnet Take the forefront. 02:04.18 Heather Right? right? Yeah I mean I think um, that people you know part of the reason why we have some so so much polarization is because people assume things about others just based on 1 point of. 02:15.10 archpodnet Her. 02:17.24 Andrew Kinkella Yep. 02:21.41 Heather They're you know, let's say they wear a hat of some political figure and all of a sudden a rush of all the stereotypes come into their head of what this person is and that is the when it comes to safety. Anybody will say this um or any safety officer will say this. 02:30.18 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 02:41.35 Heather If you have 1 instance where you assume a bunch of things. What are you not doing. You're not critically thinking for what could actually be this the the danger situation here. So now you've you've lulled yourself into thinking? Oh well I know that. 02:47.00 Andrew Kinkella Right. 02:47.87 archpodnet Um, you. 02:59.56 Heather These things are going to happen because I see this one indicator that's triggering me and you're not actually thinking about what really could be the danger situation. So I think people need to kind of take a step back and just because you see 1 thing that makes you assume something. Um, you know i. 03:05.99 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 03:07.64 archpodnet Yeah. 03:19.22 Heather Yeah, we we just you need to really look at the facts that are in front of you and why are you out there right now you want to stay safe. So let's look at let's not look at all these other emotional things that could change how and Cloud our thinking that's look at the facts that are in front of us to make sure that we're in a safe situation. 03:23.83 archpodnet Um, yeah. 03:37.10 Heather And that's that cool headed critical thinking that is going to keep you safe. 03:41.35 Andrew Kinkella Right? And while you do that smile I'm telling you smile at the other person don't just sit there and go like oh my god he's got a maga hat on ah Fox viewer you know he's he's probably a totally cool person like we got it. 03:42.15 archpodnet Um, okay. 03:46.27 Heather Yep. 03:51.86 Heather Brain. Ah yeah I've had right. 03:57.20 Andrew Kinkella We got to get over this polarized B S I'm so sick of it. It's like just smile and just like hey I'm here to do this thing you know and I swear like because if you come in all angry and worried you look angry and worried and then the other person feeds off that and it gets worse. You know So anyway. 04:08.48 Heather Right? Exactly exactly We just had a project say. In fact I've had native. We've had native American monitors on our site with political hats that you would not expect them to be wearing. 04:21.10 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah, right it it is. 04:24.91 Heather Ah, so that just shows you. There's this is so much more complex and without getting into politics but people need to step outside of their stereotypes because um, you can't work with people when you treat them as this composite. Um that you have no idea that they are. 04:33.67 Andrew Kinkella Um, absolutely. 04:33.91 archpodnet Um. 04:37.37 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 04:41.69 Heather So we just had a project site that we're on this past week and it's a and this I think is one that you're going to be seeing even more and more obviously it's it's typical for our field but that is being on a controversial site that people do not want the project to occur. 04:58.20 Andrew Kinkella Right. 04:58.28 archpodnet Where. 05:00.31 Heather And so you have people that are coming in that see people surveying. They know what that means or they're seeing equipment. They know what that means and so you're the first time that they've actually seen the physical representation of a development that they don't want to happen. 05:09.78 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 05:16.80 archpodnet Everything. 05:16.99 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 05:18.52 Heather And how do you handle that you're not even like you don't even care whether this thing happens or not you know, but people are coming up to you and so what Andrew said is that is the key be polite, um, be polite and open minded and don't. 05:28.93 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, totally and open minded like it. 05:33.39 archpodnet You know. 05:36.84 Heather Like it's so easy to say listen I'm so I'm so sorry I said but I'm not at Liberty to say and that's the other thing I always ask clients. How do you want us to describe why we're out there. 05:48.23 Andrew Kinkella Right? yeah. 05:50.32 archpodnet Um, yeah. 05:50.76 Heather So it's not just what keeps you safe but also keeps you from being litigated against. So yeah, yeah. 05:55.20 Andrew Kinkella That's that's a big one like like I'm glad you I'm glad you brought that up. That's a big one. We didn't talk about before is in terms of the safety stuff like no be able to in like 3 sentences to tell a normal person. What the hell you're doing out there. 06:06.40 Heather Right. 06:08.16 Andrew Kinkella You know you can't just start going. Well you see archeology under section one zero six. You're like what you know you got to be like we're doing this thing break it down basic. You know? yeah it is. 06:11.44 Heather Yeah, and it's real easy. It's real easy like if people if this is what like even though you could be the smartest person in the room smarter than the P I that's assigned I would not take it upon myself to make it just to. 06:24.52 Andrew Kinkella Oh. 06:30.33 Heather Describe why I'm out there. What I would do is I would ask to P I in an email. How would you like me to communicate while I'm there because that will so that will save you long term and the P I should say you please say this I'm doing I'm here for environmental testing. 06:37.40 Andrew Kinkella Um, right. 06:43.97 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 06:50.21 Heather Or whatever it is that maybe sometimes they do want to say an archeological survey but um and as a Pi as a project manager I Always ask the client. What do you want us to say because I'm telling you people get when you have sfield staff and you haven't prepared them for it and then they get put into a corner. Oh a mirror. 06:52.87 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah. 07:04.50 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, oh. Yeah, you know it sure does. But that's very important and it's it's easy, but it's not easy when you're like literally under the gun you know and. 07:10.20 Heather And of things come out of their mouth and and that's not what you want. 07:15.80 archpodnet Um, yeah. 07:19.40 Heather Right. 07:22.38 Andrew Kinkella And you just have to blurt it out. You know so hey figure it out. What are you going to say run through it in your mind talk to yourself in your car on the way over and be like Okay, if somebody says this I'll just say this you know and then you're good. 07:29.40 Heather Right? right? right? Um, and then friendly, being friendly. Um, it's you know we were there for a whole week and interacting with the same people. It's funny how in the beginning of the week they were kind of antagonistic. 07:30.38 archpodnet Yeah. 07:46.53 Heather By the end of the week hey Heather how you doing you know, joking about what we were doing and everything was fine and actually it it benefited the project because they didn't see it as a you know if you had this like you know, um they hate you so you're going to hate them back. 07:47.80 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, totally. 07:57.77 Andrew Kinkella Um, we who. 08:03.18 Andrew Kinkella Right? right? never. 08:06.80 Heather It never leads to something good. So um, having that nuanced um ability to interact with people and bring the heat down is an important aspect to this job. Yeah. 08:12.34 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah, it's It's so huge and I'm going to admit something right now on this podcast that I've had good times and learned great things from conservative people. 08:24.42 Heather Do. 08:31.79 archpodnet Um, Wow that's crazy. 08:31.91 Andrew Kinkella Um, my oh my God I know I know and I've been friends with them and I've talked with them and I think I think good thoughts about them. Yeah there you go there, you go I know I Shockingly yes and you know what? they're no different from me. 08:32.50 Heather Ah. 08:37.10 Heather No way because after all, they are people. 08:50.67 Andrew Kinkella I Just said the things I learned. But yeah I just I'm so sick of the polar is polarized crap. It's just like dude you know like make friends I just have so much insight? Um, yeah. 08:51.20 Heather Wow! yeah. 08:52.29 archpodnet Um, la. 08:57.63 Heather But you, you're so insightful answer. Um, so on that note just before the segment the segment ends I did want to talk about a few other things. Um that I see that I think personally you know obviously I work in. On the west coast so there may be different things but um things that I think that we need to start thinking about as a ah discipline and that is we're going to have an increase in and urban environments. You look especially out here in the west coast a lot of the development happened almost one hundred years ago 09:29.82 Andrew Kinkella And. 09:34.82 Heather And what's happening now to 100 year old infrastructure. It's starting to fail and that's why we're seeing so much um, upgrades to infrastructure ah with some of the grants that are coming in with build back America. 09:39.16 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 09:43.86 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 09:50.31 Heather So You're seeing a lot more work in an urban environment and so what does that mean? what are those things that you need to prepare yourself for working in an Urban environment. Another is the increase in working in extreme environments. So as the technology increases with our discipline So does. Um, the technology allowing us to be in extreme environments in a safe way and so you know I could think I just was talking to somebody who was doing work in a very cold environment which would make it difficult to dig right? But um, ah because the. The ground is frozen but now um, they're coming up with ways which have been around for a while but they're becoming more prevalent where they can actually heat up the ground and you can dig and you'll be working in environments that previously would not have been hospitable to be working in and so. 10:43.00 archpodnet Um, yeah. 10:45.89 Heather You know it just depends on how much money the client's willing to throw at the company and what the company's willing to do to solve the problem of not being able to work over the winter because there are times where the the there's grants out there that are being funded that have a finite period of time and the and. 10:49.33 Andrew Kinkella I. 10:54.60 archpodnet Um, yeah. 11:03.64 Heather And the client needs it done and they cannot wait for winter to end and so there's that's where um, that's where people get creative and so being able to you know, prepare yourself for extreme environments and then the other is border projects and there's those are still going on right? But. Um, more and more as we expand being along the Border. It is a it can be a very dangerous area that is one I think that if any company is working along the border they need to have an ever evolving. 11:29.95 Andrew Kinkella Ah. 11:38.88 Heather Safety training that talks about signs about what you could encounter and because there are some very bad elements along the border that you had to be very careful about and um, that would definitely put your field crew in in. 11:39.10 archpodnet Yeah. 11:44.85 Andrew Kinkella Yep. 11:57.38 Heather Great Jeopardy so um, all these things and and then the final that I was thinking about was also um diseases and bacterial infections things happen I'm not talking about covid I'm talking about you know things that you encounter in the field. Um, that change over time and so. 12:05.60 archpodnet Whom. Yes, yeah. 12:14.73 Heather Yeah, have to always be on top of those things. 12:16.99 Andrew Kinkella Ah. 12:18.51 archpodnet Indeed it's it's a lot of stuff and you just got to be you just got to you know when I was in the Navy and I worked on the flight deck of a aircraft carrier. They always said keep your head on a swivel. You know you've got your you've got your? um. 12:26.81 Heather Oh. 12:31.98 archpodnet You know your area your thing that you're working on but you don't know if they're turning an f 14 right behind you and going to blow you off the ship right? So you just got to always be aware of your surroundings and that's really what that means and in that particular situation. It was very it was very poignant it was like you definitely need to do that. But in this situation it's just just constantly be aware and and. 12:35.67 Heather Right. 12:51.77 archpodnet You know, follow the mantra don't be a dick right? because people people that you're going to encounter like we've ah we've said throughout this show are very apprehensive about what's going on. They think you're going to steal their land. You personally probably and it's just it's just not that way you've got to be. 13:00.72 Andrew Kinkella And yep. 13:07.61 archpodnet You've got to be on their side while you're out there and then you know when you get back in the office things can change. But yeah. 13:08.46 Andrew Kinkella Yes. 13:10.19 Heather He you know the one the 1 thing you know is actually talking to somebody to um this past week. One of our staff that were out there with us and they're like they asked me how did how do you. 13:18.38 archpodnet You know. 13:24.60 Heather Like how did you get them to be really angry in the week and then as the week went over. They were fine and I said it's it's 2 words which tend to break down like these animals this um oh like bad feelings. 2 words I understand you. 13:40.81 archpodnet Yeah, um. 13:44.13 Heather You're not saying anything. You're not saying I agree with you, you're not going too far but just listening to them with a compassionate stance with a open mind like Andrew was saying and just say I understand I understand and when you say that. 13:46.50 archpodnet Right. 13:53.14 archpodnet You know. 13:58.59 archpodnet Yeah. 14:02.46 Heather That breaks down that hardened shell typically and you haven't said I agree with you you'm tired you're committed to anything you're just as a fellow human being you're saying I understand that you're upset you don't have to say that you're upset, just 2 words I understand whatever that means to them. 14:19.46 archpodnet Is miss. 14:21.22 Heather They will fill that in and that I'm telling you it works it just those 2 words work. 14:26.23 archpodnet Yeah, agreed, all right? Well with that I think that's a good place to end. This is a great topic again if you've got any ideas for us to talk about or things that are frustrating you in the field or or something like that and you might you know think it be a good topic for us to discuss because there's a lot of experience on this podcast. 14:43.30 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 14:45.86 archpodnet Know um, and sometimes there's just 3 of us. Sometimes there's 4 or 5 and there's there's a lot of depth there so we can talk about a lot of things and maybe help out so and we don't have to tell anybody who you are if you don't want us to if you do maybe put that in the email say hey it's okay to mention my name if you want to be called out on the show but otherwise we won't do that. So. 15:04.61 archpodnet All right? Well with that I think we will call it and we'll see you guys all next time. Thanks a lot. Okay keeping a rolling for the outro. Get your cough sound. Okay I know me too. 15:19.43 Andrew Kinkella Whatever I guess no no podcast just ruined. Yeah. 15:19.68 Heather I'm sorry I'm like I knew you can cut that out right? um. 15:23.74 archpodnet Yeah, of course but startup all right segment 1 all right? Um, okay no I've been pausing to cough like throughout the show. So all right? Yeah, no, no words this all gets cut out anyway, all right here we go thanks to everyone for joining me this week thanks also to the listeners for tuning in and we'll see in the field. 15:30.78 Heather I Meant to do that. But it came on me. Yeah. 15:31.19 Andrew Kinkella I. Um, yeah. 15:43.26 Andrew Kinkella See you guys next time. 15:43.27 archpodnet Goodbye. 15:43.28 Heather Thanks for listening. 15:45.94 archpodnet Perfect all right.