00:01.75 archpodnet Welcome back to the serum archeology podcast episode 84 and we're wrapping up this conversation with professional serum archeologist renee collins. How's that how I mean you are whether you like it or not so along those lines. Yeah, along those lines. What? um. 00:09.30 Renee I Don't know about professional I know I don't think. 00:12.97 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 00:14.97 Bill White Um, yeah I like yeah. 00:19.50 archpodnet You know we're we're we're coming out of winter in some places we're still deep in winter and others and entering winter and others. But you know as we start looking at the next field season. Um, what can people you know you got you I think you mentioned in one of the segments that there's not enough people to work in this field right? Like you're constantly looking for people. So. What what can or should somebody do if they want to consider a job in that Area. What should they be studying. You know things like that not necessarily with alpine but maybe with alpine but what would you think you'd be looking for in somebody that you guys would hire. 00:50.66 Renee Well since this is a really interesting field season. We're actually starting. It's the middle where is writing time we have a lot of projects coming up like coming up as in like soon and this is not normal. Um, there's just so many different jobs happening right now and we have a shortage of filling our. 01:00.97 archpodnet Um, yeah. 01:08.34 Renee Um, our slots with field texts and without time we we really pride ourselves of like you don't need like we we have interns and you you can have no field experience and apply like we how you go to learn if you don't apply like that's how you get experience and we we teach we train. Um. 01:21.56 archpodnet Yeah. 01:28.37 Renee Our hands on and it's okay, if you're super green and don't know that's okay, that's our job we are here to teach you and if you fought you worked with somebody and they don't teach you and they think they know everything? Yeah, they're excuse my language a full of shit. Um. 01:33.35 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 01:45.45 Renee But yeah, like we're really easy to like apply for you just go on our outpine archaeology dot com and like there's a hiring button and you just upload your Cd and it is totally okay if you don't have you know a ton of crm um experience reading like that like if you have 1 thing on your cv that's okay and up. Oh. Back to Andrew because during one of his classes is a survey class. We created a cv and he's like it's okay, if there's nothing on there like we're building that and you could put this class as your you know experience because it is experience and don't be afraid to apply the worst answer you can get is no but you will not say no. 02:12.47 archpodnet Um. 02:19.24 archpodnet Right. 02:23.20 Renee Um, we need people. Um, we we train and if you keep going like you level up every time you go onto a job and you can ask all the questions I encourage all the questions someone who ask questions shows their ambition and wants to learn. Someone doesn't ask any questions. Yeah, that's another story. 02:25.13 Andrew Kinkella And. 02:41.91 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:42.47 Renee But please, um we are more this this firm is more than happy for anyone to apply? Yes, sir. 02:51.70 archpodnet Okay, nice even East Coasters Ah I know that was that. 02:53.51 Bill White In East. yeah yeah I lived in Arizona it was always like who they're from Illinois like watch them because like they're out outside. You know it. It gets warm here and that makes sense those midwesterners and easterners in Arizona would just like. 03:02.40 archpodnet Watch that? yeah. 03:06.81 Renee Um. 03:13.20 Bill White It was like the cartoons right? where bugs bunny's crawling across the desert like gasping and seeing like you know mirages and stuff like that like dude, it's only 110 what's wrong. 03:21.63 Renee Know I will say though al but we're really big on safety and if you're we encourage everyone to speak up and as me as a crew Chief is my responsibility to make sure everyone's okay and it's not like oh well, we're going to push and push and it's the job now people. 03:22.28 Andrew Kinkella Yeah. 03:24.80 archpodnet Ah, right right. 03:40.45 Renee Are the you know are the main priority If you're not feeling good. Please tell me there is no oh my God she's I'm like in trouble if she asked me like if she tells me or whatever like if you're not feeling good. You're not going to get reprimand because you're not feeling good. Please tell me I think that's. 03:54.10 Bill White I Love that. 03:56.21 archpodnet Ah. 03:57.21 Renee Think that's a big thing with like newbies coming in. They're afraid to say hey I don't feel good because they think they're going to get in trouble or something like that. No you are a human being if you're not feeling good. Your crew Chief doesn't pay attention to you. They're the problem. Not you. 04:12.70 archpodnet Yeah, you. 04:14.18 Bill White So that's a huge new development from what I was doing cm. Yeah, but that also follows in line with the question that I had too about um, New Hire folks. What's some things that you. 04:17.00 Renee And. 04:27.91 Bill White Find yourself more than once having to tell new people like what are some of the things that they have to learn from you when they first get hired. 04:35.94 Renee Um, ah, common sense. That's a big thing. Um, but well. Ah. 04:37.64 Bill White I Dont know. 04:39.64 Andrew Kinkella I difficult on that. 04:49.00 Renee I feel I don't know make I'm an older generation newer newer generation come In. It's a lot of like handholding which is it's kind of like oh my phone says is my phone says that it's sometimes it's like well my phone has a compass so I get to use my phone. Absolutely not use a real compass. Thank you very much or I don't have service. It's like I don't know it's hard I don't I haven't really had too many new people to be odds with you I Usually they go on easier projects before they they come to me because they're trained a little bit but um. I Don't know I think it's it is a lot of common sense like questions and that has to do with life because I blame Covid for a lot of things where like students don't really know because they're in a bubble and I get that and it's not their fault. 05:36.80 Bill White Um, yeah, yeah, no I know. 05:37.40 archpodnet Yeah I I will say I will say real quick as a tech guy on side by side tests. The phone compasses are actually highly accurate, but they die whereas regular compasses don't So that's the big disadvantage is not. 05:38.12 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 05:53.10 Bill White Ah, and yeah was gonna say and also the the phone Compass doesn't have a sighting mirror and it doesn't have a ruler on the side for you to actually use on the paper map and when you lay it down it like moves all around and stuff like that and and. 05:53.65 Renee Um, but it's a vital skill to have a real compass just in case. 06:01.20 archpodnet That's true, right. 06:07.90 Andrew Kinkella Totally. 06:10.20 Bill White Right? compared to the compass so you need them. But you know if you're if you're totally lost out there because the other thing too that I recognized is that your phone compass automatically accounts for declination like it just knows where you're at and it just adds the declination on there. You have to manually do that with a compass. 06:11.36 archpodnet There's there's downside. 06:20.64 Andrew Kinkella M. 06:20.95 archpodnet Oh. 06:27.60 archpodnet Right. 06:29.30 Renee Um, I will say all my compass skills come from Andrew. 06:29.64 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, good. You know what's so funny. We're talking about declination I literally my Saturday class yesterday we set our declination on our compasses. So and I agree with everything what bell said I'm sure Rene agrees to you know it's like did. 06:31.18 Bill White I. 06:39.84 archpodnet Nice. You need to learn it. Yeah. 06:45.21 Andrew Kinkella Need to use a real compass. There are other things on here the mirror the measuring like ah you need to get out of Cyber world. So. 06:50.97 Bill White But I mean to be true I found myself using the the phone more than ever before these last you know it's got a lot of stuff on it. It's good I mean it helps but you still got to know your old foundational skills. 06:52.98 Renee Um, today. 07:01.66 Andrew Kinkella Um, ah. 07:05.14 Renee Dol. 07:09.22 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, and then I have the students like check with their phone or try them both or see if they're the same or different. You know so and we we sometimes download new apps and stuff just to try them any sort of mapping apps or stuff you know, just try and see if they work or not. Ah. 07:09.85 archpodnet Um, yeah. 07:12.41 Bill White Um, yeah. 07:23.75 Bill White Yeah, one of the good ones I saw it is a free plant app too. Um, it's called plantnet and it's actually pretty decent compared to you know, a lot of the other I remember having to carry all these like. 07:25.61 Andrew Kinkella E. 07:28.43 Renee Have the app. 07:35.72 Bill White Books on different kinds of plants I'd go to different states and stuff and I need to learn all these cacti and stuff while the plant app. It's not bad. It's not as bad, you know so another useful app I guess I have another question too. Um, you know as. 07:39.62 Andrew Kinkella Um, right? Yeah so. 07:49.10 archpodnet Um. 07:53.75 Bill White Andrew and I teach students. So what are the what should we be teaching students I don't know if common sense is one that we can really teach right? like that's some that's like you know you got to figure that out on your own I guess but um, what are some things you wish that we'd teach folks that are going out into cultural resources. 07:59.16 Andrew Kinkella I try I try. 08:12.29 Renee Um, what are transexts and what are um, what to expect in the field like I mean we have students that students young adults coving in and they don't have the time. 08:14.75 Andrew Kinkella Ah, yeah. 08:25.91 Renee Proper gear and I know going like going as you in your career you're going to like this is what I need This is what I need but just like bring your lunch bring you know, um, all that stuff and then teach some maps like how to navigate. Um. 08:41.97 Renee What is crm basically like a lot of students come in. They have no our so I keep seeing students I'm sorry they're not students young adults they come in. They don't know how to read a map I think that's a skill that's being lost definitely and just how to navigate triangulate. Um, what? Ah what is section 1 oh six I think Andrew like you now have a serum class for Saturday is it a serum class at you. 09:05.62 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's serum professionalism. So I go I go deep dive into section one. Oh 6 09:11.54 Renee Again, like I was thinking about this the other day I'm like maybe like for one of your finals. You should have like a mockup site write up and like and have like a nomination for and rhp or like really go into that So they're kind of prepared and like they I mean they don't have to hit all that but like just like oh this is what as. 09:20.96 Andrew Kinkella Um. 09:31.80 Renee Um, Crew Chiefs Do so they they have an understanding. It's like oh I get to do this one day and they have a better understanding when we're out in the field than what like for Crm maybe teaching wise like what is a site like in turn of the sierra and because every state's different right? So I mean yeah. 09:34.56 Andrew Kinkella Right. 09:45.30 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, these are great I'm writing this stuff down as you're talking I'm just like okay oh that's a good one. You know so this is really helping me out. 09:50.88 Renee It gets in. 09:54.76 Bill White And yeah, me too I mean I built a class that has some of those skills but now I'm realizing I should cut out some other stuff and expand those sections and. 10:02.13 Andrew Kinkella E. 10:03.70 Renee Yeah, and then like what we deal with lot in serum is lithics like that is a big thing maybe like introducing some lithic analysis like have a little like workshop or something like that like to identify what's a by face thinning flake or what's a core reduction flake like stuff like that like. 10:09.30 Andrew Kinkella Um, go yeah. 10:21.99 Renee That will really hone in skills for us and help us out in the long term because it depends on where you work in the country. But I mean when you're in the southwest you're going to see a more ceramics maybe have like a ceramic workshop if you want to work there or like what's a thermal feature like what's the characteristics of that. 10:34.24 Andrew Kinkella Right? Yeah, this is great. You know and sort of a follow up question on this same thing is there anything like when you finished even your masters is there anything you wish you knew personally like you came out and you're like. 10:40.86 Renee Stuff like that that would help. 10:53.13 Andrew Kinkella Damn I wish I had more experience in this or more skill set in this was there like 1 or 2 things. 10:59.96 Renee Um, well the beauty about and neu in Northern Arizona um it had a CRM like class taking the upper upper division in law of the guys that but professors that were in that we're teaching were in. 11:03.32 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, um. 11:14.10 Renee Federal government or we're in Cm so we got a really big skillset that we're allowed to go out like with them and I got a lot of like training with that. Um, and not all universities had that at all. But I would think more of like. 11:20.77 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, right. 11:30.38 Renee Being things I didn't know when I was in gras what I wish I knew is like the federal government has ah a program called pathways and I wish I knew that and pathways is like an internship program I think and basically it teaches you what the federal government wants and you could be like a GS 5 and then ultimately get like. 11:33.60 Andrew Kinkella Um, yeah. 11:48.56 Andrew Kinkella M. 11:48.59 Renee Ah, permanent job and I didn't know that going in as a student and I wish I did. 11:52.94 archpodnet I. 11:56.25 Andrew Kinkella That's great. Um, yeah, right? Then as you were talking. There's no way in my notes I was writing down federal government pathways now now I was just I was just listening um meaning that this is this is great stuff right? I have a long list of like oh man I got to get on this. Even the little things you said like um talking about ah what is a transect I'm like oh man I got to double down on the transect thing I mean I touch on it but you're right like when I think back to my own times in Crm I'm like yeah just how to walk a transsec How to stay in a straight line. You know how to stay in a straight line with others and not like run into each other. 12:12.95 Renee Um, and. 12:28.97 Renee Right? and different types of like Surveys like block survey versus linear surveys. 12:30.16 archpodnet I know. 12:30.54 Andrew Kinkella You know that kind of stuff. Yeah, me right. 12:36.40 Bill White So now. 12:38.59 Renee Like I have a hard time block Surveys I don't know why that's just me and I'm I'm okay to admit that I'm not perfect. 12:39.60 archpodnet Okay. 12:45.61 Bill White I. 12:48.48 archpodnet All right? Well hey we're nearing the end of this show Renee is there anything else you want to tell our listeners about your career choices or anything else. 13:00.60 Renee Um, well if you want more you can always reach out to me not a problem I'm always available. Um, find me on the alpine website get email me there? Um, but yeah, just keep on keeping on as George. 13:05.31 archpodnet Um, okay yep, we'll do. 13:15.64 Renee Joe Dirt would say life's a garden dig it and you know literally um and just life's too short to do things. You don't love doing Bruce Dickinson I just stole that but here we are um you love archeology keep doing it. 13:19.34 archpodnet Nice. 13:19.98 Bill White Um, exactly yeah. 13:33.40 Bill White Found it. 13:34.80 archpodnet Awesome! Well, that's good advice and with that Andrew thanks for bringing on Renee this has been really great. Um, if anybody else. Yeah, if anybody else really wants to come on and just kind of tell your story I mean it really helps I think it really helps other people because we all. 13:39.68 Andrew Kinkella Yeah, just great having her. 13:50.28 archpodnet Not only kind of came into this from different pathways. But we're all on different journeys even though it kind of seems the same because there's only ah you know a handful of positions really in this field but it's all different depending on where you work and what company you work for and everybody's experience is different so it benefits to to let other people know that. Things they're experiencing and feeling and and going through are are similar um and and other people have done it and yet and yet different enough that you can kind of write your own path if you want to so with that we will say goodbye to this week and we'll see you guys next time all right? We'll keep it rolling for the outro standbye Renee we just say goodbye when I am. Ah, finish this little spiel here. Let me bring it up. Thanks to everyone for joining me this week thanks also to the listeners for tuning in and we'll see you in the field goodbye. 14:37.90 Bill White But bye. 14:39.28 Renee I guess. 14:40.36 Andrew Kinkella See you guys next time.