00:00.00 archpodnet Hello and welcome back to the crm archeology podcast episode 284 and we have been talking about what to do when you're suppliers all of a sudden go out of business and what Doug was talking about in the last segment reminded me of a couple other um times where this totally happened to me. Um. 1 of them. There was a program called Gps Trackmaker and I think it still exists but it was open source what it does is. It's just a program where you can download all your Gps points and basically produce a map. It was very basic but I'm telling you it was so much better than the garmin stuff and it's really sad because it's like when you buy Garmin Gps and as you would get free copies of the Garmin programs and stuff but I found the Garmin programs so crappy and just so. 00:43.71 Heather Um. 00:56.00 archpodnet They were so focused for hikers in a way that you couldn't use them to put in like free form Gps points in order to kind of um, do the types of things that we need in archeology. But this like free open source Gps track maker thing was huge. It saved me I remember in my master's thesis. That's all long ago. But you could you could download base maps to it. Um, it was fantastic I believe it still exists but that was 1 kind of like Doug was saying where I was I was always worried and I think there were. Times when they didn't update it for a really long time. Um, another one there. There's there was I guess I should say unfortunately I'll have to use the term was um, an app for your phone that did muncell colors and that was so great because the muncell book is obviously so expensive and yes I know. 01:40.37 Heather And. 01:48.39 archpodnet Mu cell colors on a screen on an iphone aren't you know, supremely absolutely utterly perfect. But they're good enough for a lot a lot of times and there was this app I swear it was probably made by a student, very basic but work great but it hasn't been updated in. Um, we know that the. App store can be very fickle when you have no updates. They finally just shut it off and that's what happened so there's ah 2 other stories of whoa for me heather I know you had some stuff to build on that. So Heather yeah. 02:18.94 Heather Yeah, um, so I did first of all want to correct the record now as far as direct Ams this was just you know, guessing on our part and so I direct Ams was it actually was an independent business unit of a company called axium. Biosciences and that company was they provided like micro tracing data for preclinical and clinical pharmaceutical studies. So they were a separate company so we don't know what it is. You know, maybe things happen in the business world right? profits. Aren't high enough and they just make a decision. But anyway if if if anybody that worked at direct Ams is listening. We really appreciated you. We thought you were terrific and and we're sad. Oh hopefully you have some neat things ahead of you. Some neat opportunities ahead of you. So. 03:06.79 archpodnet Yeah. 03:14.95 Heather Um, and actually if you're ever interested in ah being a guest on that Sara Podcast let us let us know so we'd love to talk to you. So yeah, so you know I just wanted to kind of I know that on the social media. 03:22.47 archpodnet Totally What a great idea. 03:34.53 Heather You know this has been a topic. Um, there are just a few companies that create this some of the tools that we need um as archeologists we're lucky because as archeologists,, there's so much of what we use can be bought at any hardware store but there are some specific. Tools that we use that can be made by hand. Um, but you also do you have the time to do that I mean there's so much you know that's always a struggle. It's been a struggle for me throughout my career is that there's I'm a definitely a D I wire hey I mean I Love it. I Love doing. 04:00.34 archpodnet Oh. 04:12.65 Heather And doing things exactly the way I want to do them and creating my own stuff. Um I do that in archaeology and outside of archaeology. But you only have so much time in your day and so purchasing a tool that somebody has worked really hard to perfect and to do very well. Is valuable and we should support companies like that. Um, as professionals, especially if we have any control over the buying of a company. Um, but you know recently there's been some challenges I think it started in covid. 04:35.72 archpodnet Um, right. 04:50.14 Heather People started making their own tools and like screens and stuff. Um, but now we're coming across some challenges because with the way the market is. We're all so so busy we don't want the time to create screens and if we need new screens. It's becoming increasingly difficult to get them. And um, so when companies go out of business and there's so few that make these it or not I shouldn't even say go out of business but are not able to um, ah provide at the demands that people have timing-wise then it. 05:22.70 archpodnet Yeah. 05:26.10 Heather Definitely makes it difficult and um, yeah I I think this for me in a general sense. First of all, you have to be Creative. We can't sit back and just say okay, we can't do this because this is what happens is that it it starts trickling down the line like. How many times have you went and you need a service and that service is let's say based in a university and I'm ah not to pick on Universities. We do pick on them a lot but but there's this bureaucracy as you say, but it's also this mindset you know what we don't have time. 05:51.47 archpodnet Oh but you should. 06:03.87 Heather We do not. We cannot meet your demand and therefore we're just going to sit on our hands and we'll do it at our pace. We're not even going to pick it up a little bit. We're just going to do it at our piece. Yes. 06:12.23 archpodnet Heather Heather look I need to spend time making a troll using a marxist approach. Okay, that's really what matters is my feelings so I don't know what you're talking about. 06:19.95 Heather Right? But yes, yes I don't yeah obviously I'm behind the times but um, so it's it is that is where we get these stop gaps where we get these. 06:29.79 archpodnet Yeah, you sugar are. 06:39.93 Heather These places where we can't move forward and as a discipline we need to get out of that mindset I do I do understand that you know people are coming to you demanding. You have to maybe unrealistic demands. That's 1 thing. But if we sit back and we're like you know what? you're going to get it when you get it. Eventually somebody else. That's the free market is going to come in and say you know what? um I can provide it for you and in the time that you want and then you're going to be out of luck. So you know one frustration and we've talked about it is the. 07:02.10 archpodnet We have. 07:18.36 Heather Ah, Chris data system and um some of the information centers have caught up and others um have not and it makes this is in California where you have all the archeological site records and reports and we don't have a choice. This is the only place we can get them as professionals working in California. 07:18.47 archpodnet Yeah. 07:38.28 Heather And so it is so difficult I cannot tell you how many times I have conversations with project managers outside of archeology or customers where I'm like listen I don't know what to tell you but they say they're backed up three months what you like that that concept does not make any sense. To anybody outside of our discipline and I actually don't blame them because it shouldn't make sense. It doesn't make sense but they're kind of holding the cards and we're stuck and so I think yes. 08:05.30 archpodnet But Heather it totally makes sense because you need to take time making those maps using a structural functionalist approach. Okay so I can't It's just it's people like you who just who just won't won't do the readings. You won't do the readings. Yeah. 08:12.54 Heather Oh right again I'm behind the times. 08:21.47 Heather Okay, yeah I was never good at that. You're actually so but. 08:25.20 archpodnet You need to do the readings. Yeah yeah, exactly no I can't man I can't agree with you more I can't stand it.. It's so unprofessional I'm like ah how hard is this really? Ah, we have to make this harder on everyone I I can't agree with you more and you can hear it my voice it just it pisses me off because. It's been this way for like decades. You know what? I mean it's like nothing now. 08:43.75 Heather Yeah, and I think I think and I've said you know we've we've talked about this. We've kind of gone back and forth on it on several different episodes. But you know this is where I really think that as a discipline we need to not be running away from the business side of things. 08:51.53 archpodnet E. 08:59.29 archpodnet Yeah. 09:01.49 Heather And there are some companies that are so that are saying that we're you know what we're going to look at this as a business and there's nothing wrong with that. There's balance in life right? Doesn't have to all go that one direction and you know those businesses that are doing that right now that are looking. 09:09.73 archpodnet Um, yeah, absolutely yeah. 09:20.60 Heather Ah, those Cr M companies that are doing that right now that are are looking at it in a much more ah business sense are doing very well right now they're also coming under fire by a lot of people if you'll want to hate on them for that reason? Um, but this is a sign. 09:25.61 archpodnet Um, yeah, note of course. 09:38.30 archpodnet Um, yeah. 09:38.66 Heather Right? to those that are coming up in the business in in the discipline of archeology that you really are going to have to have a business mind if you want to make it in in COrm and we've been saying this for a while ah you have to you can't have this um idea that. 09:50.80 archpodnet Um, absolutely and yeah. 09:57.48 Heather You know you're going to get it when you get it. That's not how business works. 10:00.57 archpodnet Yeah, and don't fall for this false approach of like somehow if you're in academia having a business mindset is somehow dirty you know I can't stand that and and that runs rampant in the academic world anyway, Doug ah, what would you like to add. 10:08.58 Heather It's not yeah. 10:17.60 Doug Ah, probably like a scatter ground of a bunch of little thoughts. Um I I would say I get what you guys are saying I Totally agree I would say there has you have to be sometimes a little bit. Um. 10:19.89 archpodnet It's fine. 10:34.39 Doug Think we need to sort of possibly add some asterisks to like a business mind in the sense that like one way of of doing a business is actually yeah you, you're the Google you're the Facebook of or Microsoft or whatever or you. 10:41.71 Heather Sure, no. 10:53.70 Doug Um, if you're in gis esri in which you basically it makes really good business sense to create a monopoly and then just soak everyone for every last dollar or Yen or poundoreuro that they have um, yeah. 11:05.90 Heather But we're talking about 2 extremes here. It doesn't have to be that way I'm talking about a more balanced. Let's just start thinking about business. Let's just start having people in crm programs taking business classes. 11:07.80 archpodnet Yeah, this there's There's a happy middle ground. 11:21.32 Heather So that they at least understand the business side of things but instead of only focusing on or or having a large percentage of the classes being on theory and a lot of theory that really doesn't apply now. Do we want to lose that theoretical background. No, we don't. 11:21.69 archpodnet Yep. 11:40.37 Heather But there needs to be balance there also needs to be business classes. 11:45.73 Doug Think Yeah I think it's ah, just worth sort of expanding to say that when we're talking about Business. It's we can even just rephrase it to business for sustainability as in you. You could do a lot of interesting things in Archeology. Um, but you do need some money you need a way of of being able to put food on the on the table. Um, and so you don't like when we're talking about business sense for anyone. So Yeah I know how that's going to go on on social media. Someone's gonna be like oh they're they're all wanting us to be soulless. 12:01.93 Heather Exactly. 12:17.38 Doug Monsters. It's not that like um, all yeah, but like all all charities. Yeah, but I don say like all charities need to to basically be able to stay sustainable. 12:17.70 archpodnet And I could care less what they say and social media. 12:19.64 Heather Oh my gosh. Well you know what? you know what? That's why there's a problem because they don't even know what the word business means okay like. 12:26.48 archpodnet You know, no idea they're just bitching. Ah. 12:36.81 Heather Yes, yes. 12:36.89 Doug To meet their charitable aim. Um and so like even like when we say business since I should also say like business could be you working for yourself like we don. You don't need to be ah ah of wherever yourself inc incorporated ah be in charge of you know, several hundred people this 12:37.79 archpodnet Um, course absolutely. 12:55.87 Doug Big massive business. You could just be yourself. Maybe you just do a four day work week. You know, maybe you spend half your time doing projects that are your own research interest whatever but you're able to do that because you're able to be sustainable. Um. 13:08.70 archpodnet M. 13:14.95 Doug Through business practices. So I just add that sort of like asterisk on that business sense like when we're talking about business. We're not necessarily saying you have to become the Mcdonald's Of Archeology um you could just be. 13:24.37 Heather Right? Well so business is they are definitely people people are thinking that way. How do we know that people are thinking that way from a fright financial perspective because they complain a lot about not making enough money on on these social media sites right. So Obviously they are thinking somewhat on the business side of things right? Maybe they don't know how to think in that way or they're not thinking clearly in that way I'm ah not saying all I mean but some so you can't tell me, we're not all, we're not all doing this for nothing. 13:46.89 archpodnet Right. 13:57.40 archpodnet Um. 14:01.86 Heather Right? We're not all volunteering as Archaeologists. So Obviously there is a business side of things people just need to look at it more clearly that's all and and not have this I think the arguments are emotional arguments in many many senses and when you come from some from when you're trying to solve a problem. With an emotional argument. It's very difficult to solve the problem. 14:27.69 archpodnet Absolutely and you know I think on that note I think I think we're all good I think we've kind of wrapped it up with a bow look at that look at that congratulations to all of us. So um. Ah, just like to thank everyone for listening yet again. Um I'm going to get to work on my marxist trowel which I'm sure will be the wrong size and not work and um with that. Ah, we'll see you guys next time. 14:54.98 Heather How and please leave notes I mean listen this is this is just the beginning of the conversation. So as much as I might regret it later please comment, Please respond this podcast I'm actually very interested to hear. 15:09.95 archpodnet Um, no definitely do you know? Yeah I am too totally I think it's ah, really interesting and a lot of fun. So um. 15:14.93 Heather But people have to say. 15:22.70 Doug I would I would put that and this is not just like that generic like comments. Whatever you get at the end of a Youtube ah video we really are oh okay, well I thought Andrew the rest of us it actually would be. 15:23.20 archpodnet Yeah. 15:28.50 archpodnet Oh mine was though? Yeah yeah. 15:37.27 archpodnet It has. 15:37.61 Doug This is this is something about how to be a sustainable business is having sustainable suppliers. So I mean I was just discussing about what I know and you know risk sharing and and moving around but there might be other ways and people maybe do it differently and I would love to know because you know um I. 15:38.90 Heather Guest. 15:55.41 archpodnet Um. 15:56.60 Doug Help run a business I help run a charity and they both need to be sustainable. So yes, please do if you if you have thoughts on like how to manage supplier risk please do share. 15:59.86 Heather Yes. 16:01.19 archpodnet Here. 16:11.29 archpodnet Definitely all right? and with that we'll see you guys next time. 16:16.13 Doug Goodbye. 16:17.37 archpodnet See you later and. 16:17.55 Heather Goodbye.