00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome to the show. Everyone joining me today is Doug in Scotland and Heather I'm on a boat in California. 00:05.13 Doug Everyone. 00:09.85 Heather I Everyone and. 00:15.63 archpodnet So so it is summertime. It is July we're actually recording on holiday weekend here tomorrow is independence day as we're recording this and so not only are you know people enjoying holiday festivities. It's it's I mean it's kind of like. Buy the calendar sort of the the middle of summer but um or I guess by feeling it's sort of the middle of summer for a lot of places but obviously seasonally it's really still at the beginning of summer but that being said, there's a lot of people into work and doing things and and along those lines. Both Andrew and bill are out on you know, field projects. So that's why they're not here, but everybody's doing stuff and that's what we want to talk about. So if you haven't listened to the last episode we called it. What's your exit strategy episode None 42 listen to that because Doug who's on this show today of course and Andrew recorded that one and it really was talking about what is your what is your end goal in Crm and you know. Kind of building off of that I had an interview plan for today and it it kind of fell through but we'll try to get one back if you're interested and this is your you're doing your none project as you're listening to this or this is your first field season hit me up Chris at http://archaeologypodcastnetwork.com and I want to bring you under the show if you're willing and and have the panelists talk to you about you know, just like Basically what we're going to talk about today but from your perspective. So if you're interested that again send me an email. But anyway we want to talk about what you should be thinking about right now what you should be planning. Ah you're excited that you're an archeologist. You're finally getting paid to do this It's kind of a dream job for a lot of people and and you're you know you're really in that. Excitement phase and everything is new and that is fantastic. It's it's tough when you kind of lose that sometimes but the nice thing about c or m is you lose it a little bit. It comes back. You lose a little bit. It comes back just kind of depends on the project and the in the season and the month and how many snakes there are but ah you know it's um, it. 02:02.67 Heather Um. 02:12.41 archpodnet There's a lot of things that you you really probably aren't thinking about right now because you're in that early phase and we want to talk about what you what you ought to be thinking about So what are your guys' first first impressions when I when I mentioned this thinking back to the starts of of your careers I'll start with you either. 02:28.64 Heather Wow! Well I you know I I have quite a few thoughts on this but I thought I would start off like very something I think you should do in the very very beginning and it's It's a very simple step. But for me, um, it. The advice was given to me in the very beginning of my career and I'm so glad that I took it and that is having your own yearly personal field Book. So You may be required to have a field book for so for work. Um to be you know, logging in field notes and I know it's extra and sometimes it seems. 02:52.70 archpodnet Yeah. 03:04.47 Heather You know there's There's a lot of repeat that you'll be logging but for your own personal benefit. A field logbook is is great and not only like we we've relied on. In fact, just recently we relied on it when when something happened with our digital. 03:21.26 archpodnet Um, yeah. 03:23.12 Heather Ah forms and we were able not all of them but a couple of them and one of the field notes ah personal foot field notes to somebody had taken. We were able to recreate the field Form. So Not only that though it it Um, you know you log everything all the ah kind of information the weather for the day. It's amazing. How much you'll Forget. And how much Ah, just ah, a little bit of detail will trigger a memory if you're trying to recreate something. Another thing is is it's a really good professional, um information builder everything that you learn everything that you learn in the field but then also that you um, want to learn. 03:52.69 archpodnet You. 04:00.70 archpodnet Yeah. 04:02.70 Heather So make maybe in the back of the book you have a list of things that I want to do this I heard somebody told me this would be a really good skill set and you just you forget those things like it sounds like a really good idea and then you get in the car in the way back from you know a 10 day rotation and you can't remember what the person said but you know it's important. So writing those things down also contacts um and staying in contact with people. It's a small World. You never Know. Um, how your experience with somebody can help you down the road long term. So Um I Really think that having a personal field book. Plus it's super cool when you're gonna be in your rocking chair. At 70 looking at your old notes. Your family will love it. Your kids will love it if you have them. So I. Highly recommend that. 04:50.90 archpodnet Thats awesome. That's really good doug. What about you? What? what pops into your mind going back to those early days in sierra. 04:57.17 Doug Yeah, um I think you if if you're I'd say probably you're if okay so we're assuming people are maybe a month or 2 in or just about to start there. 05:11.55 archpodnet None first season. Yeah. 05:15.65 Doug But to start their none job. Um, yeah, you know depends with friends with graduation stuff I remember I mean I'd gotten a ah position working with ah the forest service but it was at their um storage facility and so I didn't actually do my first like out in the field until I think. August after I graduated maybe end of August beginning of September or something like that. So you know some people might just be starting. Um I think part of it in that first season is trying out a lot of different things if you can um and now depend on who you're employed with and the type of project you're on. 05:35.63 archpodnet Ah. 05:51.42 Heather Um, have to happen. 05:55.48 Doug Um, some can be you know, quite flexible and you could end up being able to to well I mean back where I started here. It was total stations now most people are using Gps and stuff like that. But you know some still use build stations and all that sort of thing and you know trying out a bunch of different skills. 06:06.59 archpodnet Red. 06:14.43 Doug And basically seeing if you actually like archeology as it's ah as it's practiced. Um I think that would be like the number None thing people should be looking to do is trying out a bunch of different things to see if they like it. Um and what they like about it like you know. Everyone sort of has their their favorite task or favorite. You know thing to do in archeology or or maybe things it might be multiple things. Um, but I think yeah, 1 the most important part is actually like do you like doing archeology. 06:41.43 archpodnet Yeah. 06:51.16 Doug And what do you like about it and that's that's something it'll probably take you a couple of years to figure out but I'd say get started on that as soon as possible. Um, if you find something you really like that's great but also try other things um see what else is out there and again this will be really dependent on who you're working for. Like some organizations basically have one person do photography so it stays consistent. Others don't So Sometimes you might be able to get a chance to do that for everything or maybe you don't because they already have a photographer. You know there's there's different ways. It's really hard to give generic advice other than just. 07:15.99 archpodnet Ah. 07:28.20 archpodnet yeah yeah I would say too just a real quick one on that before I get into my None experiences here, get get into something yes, but then be very conscious of getting back out of that right and trying something else because companies. 07:29.55 Doug Try as much as you can where you can find. 07:46.34 archpodnet Really like it. Especially if you're doing a good job right? but companies really like it when when crews just stay consistent and I have known people in crm that just end up becoming the photographer right? and and maybe that is your bag. Maybe that is exactly what you want to do and that is there's literally nothing wrong with that. But if you want to branch out. If you want to do other things then you're going to have to make that happen for yourself. You know, very few crew chiefs or project directors or whatever are going to be proactive. It's just the way this this industry is but very few of them I feel like are going to be proactive and say hey. Notice you haven't done this yet. Do you want experience doing this, you're going to have to speak up for yourself and say listen I've done this for a little while now I'd like to try this now and if they don't let you do it don't be disheartened by that because my next bit of advice that I was thinking about when I first thought about this was what's your next job. It's great. It's great. This is the honeymoon right? You've got your none job or maybe even your none job but like what's the next job and I'm talking to. You know we're making an assumption that some of the people listening to this again. It's summertime in the United States and depending on where you're at you might be doing field work right now and. I start my first Crm project was in October right? and in in North Dakota and my first c m project was shut down by snow for the winner. So I'm like great now what and and I wasn't really thinking about my next job while I was in that project I was surprised to even got that job to be honest because I kind of. Longtime listeners know my story I'm not going to go through it again. But you know I kind of fell into that job a little bit because it was it was nearby I didn't really know about crm. Um, and then I started having to look for another job and I actually waited until that job was over because it ended kind of as a surprise we thought it was going to snow much later. There wasn't anything in the forecast and all of a sudden boom you get a blizzard. And was already cold and the snow wasn't going anywhere till like March so the project was shut down. You know we ended on a Friday it snowed on Saturday that was it um, go home. So but I got online and I started looking applying to shovel bums talking to some of the people I was. On that project with and they had already been looking at some other projects that were either long term or kicking off that were going over the winner because I had no skills or longevity with a company or anything like that to get any sort of secure winter position. So I really needed to find more work and I needed to go south to find it and I went about as far south as you can. And ended up with a project in Miami where I met my future wife and a lot of other ah good friends. She's waving right? now you kids here I know right? Yeah, a lot of other good friends. Ah that very none project my my very none dig partner was actually a ah. 10:16.44 Heather Ah, and. 10:28.59 archpodnet Best man, our ah groomsman at our wedding and you know just a lot of lot of good people on those first couple projects and but then the point is I think what I'm trying to make here is if you're in your None or None project or even your None project. Whatever it is if your first field season. You need to always be looking for the next project right? because that company's not necessarily despite despite what they may be telling you they of course think they have projects that are continuous leading throughout but that doesn't mean you're on all of them right? Especially if you're green right? so. 10:56.90 Heather Um I. 10:58.77 archpodnet The next project they get might be 4 people they need rather than 6 people or something like that and and you're the new guy or a girl so you're out. You know what I mean and ah so so always be looking for the next thing and don't feel bad about jumping ship like that don't try not to jump in the middle of a project but you got to look out for yourself. 11:06.44 Heather Um, yeah. 11:17.12 archpodnet Before you're looking out for the company and that's just how it is go ahead either. 11:18.47 Heather yeah yeah I would I would see you know this kind of just stuvetails right into a couple points that I had number 1 is the fallacy of of company loyalty and serum and um, you know I've run into this a lot when. 11:29.75 archpodnet Yeah. 11:35.75 Heather When hiring um as needed employees and I encourage them in the interview because I I do probably as In-d depth first interview with an as needed as I do with the full time person. Um. 11:47.25 archpodnet Sure yeah. 11:50.39 Heather And because to me, you know as needs staff are just the the center. Um the working horse of our of our business right? and but you have to be careful. They do still represent the company. Um, and so I think that um. 11:58.17 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 12:07.70 Heather People don't realize they they're shocked when I tell them go on other companies list get on as many as you can so that you can start realizing which companies are the ones you want to stay with.. It's okay for you to kind of. Sit back and you know if you if you're not crazy about a company just kind of take them off your list of companies. You want to work for um, but you don't try out different companies because that also gives you an opportunity to figure out. Okay, which one do I really would I want to have a full time job with um and as the employee although I know that you know the stability is. 12:24.33 archpodnet Moving. 12:40.57 Heather Is not all there, but it is an opportunity to use it for your own betterment and figure out what full time What companies do you think you're kind of trying them them out what companies would good for you to work at full time. So you know the idea that. 12:50.31 archpodnet Like yeah, what. 12:57.46 Heather You have to be loyal to a serum company if a serum company gives you a hard time because they contact you and you're already on a you've already been scheduled for another um, ah job with another company. Um, That's a really good Sign. You don't want to work for them anyway. So you know, Um, if they don't have that understanding and they they get sore about you having work I mean it just means that you're valuable. It means that you're ah you're in Demand. So um, definitely as many company lists as you can. 13:21.52 archpodnet Yeah, well and and not only that. But if the if the company and usually when we say the company. It's not always a person in your level right? It's it's often just like ah like a like a lower level project manager or even like a field director or something like that. That you have to tell because they're the next person in your in your line and you're like hey I've got to I've got to jump to this other thing or you know I can't stick around with you guys on the next project I've got ah another project I've got to go to if they get sore over that and they can't immediately replace you. 13:47.70 Heather Um, great. 13:55.99 archpodnet Then it's probably not a great company people. Want to work for anyway, Any good company. It should have people just knocking down their door especially in this timeframe when there's more people than jobs. Well there's less people than jobs. So be everybody. That's out there needs to you know wants to get hired. So um, yeah. 13:58.80 Heather Yes, yes, yes. Because yep. 14:10.50 Heather Great and and the other thing um along that line is to remember that companies are as leery as employees So be careful and protective of your own personal reputation or brand. Um, however, you want to look at it. 14:13.85 archpodnet Shouldn't be a problem. 14:20.92 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 14:29.41 Heather Because you know people come in I see people that you know they're jaded. Um, and they're basically like you know what? they they get you ever been like in a relationship or you go on a date with somebody and the person's really been burned by the last person they dated or they've been burned too many times on on dates and. 14:44.77 archpodnet Um, yeah. 14:47.30 Heather They come in really aggressive really and really almost like um out jaded is a good word right? and when we have people that were you know with that I interview and they come in. They're already like okay listen, you're not gonna screw me over you know and this is how you're not going to screw me over just. 14:52.90 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 15:07.18 Heather You know companies are just as leery because they're nervous. They don't know who's going to come in and kind of you know, upset the Apple cart and not be a good worker and you know so everybody needs to you know? Yes, you should be protective of yourself. But you also have to be protective of your reputation because that None impressions are. 15:09.52 archpodnet Yeah people. 15:26.00 Heather Really important and so just how you handle yourself. You don't have to come on aggressive like if somebody is somebody's not handling things properly deal with it then don't assume though that people are trying to screw you so I would say just you know, being really careful. 15:38.29 archpodnet Oh. 15:43.50 Heather Always being professional, never build ah burn a bridge. Even if you're not mean to burn a bridge. A bad attitude will very quickly burn a bridge and people. It's a small world again. People move from company to company. So just because you think you maybe just burnt the bridge with that company. Well maybe that supervisor now moves to another company and now you burn a bridge with them too. 15:59.22 archpodnet Right. 16:02.99 Heather Um, even though you never dealt with them yet. So just be be careful and and you know take people at face value. Do this, you know, just give people a benefit of doubt and when they tell when they until they start proving you otherwise. 16:13.75 archpodnet Yeah, well and you hit the nail in the head too people move around in this business quite a bit so you know have conversations with the people that you're working with and 4 I mean you're not trying to dig up too much dirt but you know try to find out you know, ask them just from a. From an interesting standpoint interested standpoint. Ah, how long have you been with this company that kind of thing if if you're working with ah a crew chief or a project director or somebody that you're directly working with that. You're not having a great relationship with maybe ask them how long they've been at the company and if they say oh I've been here for None ears well, they're probably not going anywhere right? They're that's probably unlikely that they are going to move on to somewhere. But if they've like oh I've been I've been here for six months or I you know I just started this season and this is my first you know project manager job with them or something like that then you know. 16:49.18 Heather Um, right? um. 17:02.73 archpodnet You You cannot write the company off as far as you're concerned because there are some companies you might just not want to work for because they've got people that are never going anywhere and those are the people you clashed with not everybody gets along with everybody else. So but if this you know if if the person you're clashing with is is also short term then. 17:10.70 Heather Um, yes, right. 17:21.41 archpodnet You know chances are give the company another shot at some point in the future and and see if it'll work out So don't don't don't burn that bridge entirely like you said so hey, let's ah, let's take a quick break and then when we come back I Want to talk a little bit about. Yeah I Want to jump a little bit to the end of the season because you need to be thinking of that now and then we'll come back to the beginning of the season So we'll do that on the other side of the break.