00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to ah 45 of the crm archeology podcast and we are talking about really the start of your serum career hopefully hopefully long and prosperous career. But you know things change. So I want to talk about along those lines. 00:08.68 Heather With. 00:16.85 archpodnet Something that I'm really passionate about and it's something that I don't think people think about enough and it's really it's looking head to the end of your field season because what's one of the main things that people complain about in crm, it's not having enough money right? and and part of the problem with shovel bums or or as needed employees. Is sometimes you know the projects are not very lucrative right? Sometimes you're just paying the bills of the project and maybe you're not able to to put that much aside because you're you're on this project the predium. Maybe the maybe the the extra cash you're getting from predium is not that much because the company is you know, straight covering the hotel and it's. Not that much food preium or just enough and then maybe your your paycheck I mean there's a lot of projects that are like that right? So you you can't just put away and sock away money. There are those banker projects where you can just sock away some money right? but they don't come around too often and they usually have the word pipeline in the title. So just look out for that. But anyway, um, it's a. Um, people don't think about enough which is how am I going to survive the winter right? because either you're going to be somewhere working that doesn't actually have a winter they have work that goes throughout but then everybody wants to be there and then also you know even in those areas you've got to look because sometimes construction just slows down in the winter. Even if that. Area doesn't really have a winter right? and maybe it just gets cold or it's something or for whatever reason construction seems to slow down over the winter months now if you're in like Florida or something or even Southern California I doubt anything slows down then but those guys all have supply chains and sometimes they're supply chains. Are in places that slow down for the winter which means they slow down for the winter so you got to keep that in mind. So what are you doing to prepare for that time and it's kind of met of kind of a metaphor for you know for the end of your career as well. Go ahead. Heather. 02:11.19 archpodnet Heather Can you hear me. 02:13.90 Heather Hello Oh sorry I was weird. Okay, okay now I can't remember what this Scos Ah, whole lot is like out. Oh oh oh yes, okay cut this all out. 02:14.51 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, no words I got you now though, go ahead. 02:21.93 archpodnet Well I was talking about finances finances end a season. Yeah, indeed. 02:29.74 Doug Um. 02:32.50 Heather Um, so the None thing to remember and you know, ah we talk about this a lot and I see this on social media a lot where people think that companies are getting um I don't know that like they're getting tighter with their budgets which yeah of course companies are doing that right? But. Um, 1 thing just from my perspective I'd like people to know is that more and more now these larger companies especially on on-call as needed contracts with municipal um municipalities or different kind of agencies. They are now requiring that everything is by receipt. 03:03.15 archpodnet Oh. 03:09.70 archpodnet Sure. 03:10.15 Heather There's no more and it's a good indicator because I think more and more people are going to start going that way, especially when you have the larger contracts and people ah a lot more works being done by larger contracts and you have people that before money was free and flowing and in this market right now people are going to be penny penching on all sides. They're going to be doing everything they can to reduce the outgoing right? So just remember the days of you know, just having I wish I could every chance I get I do do that because I want to give people the opportunity to have a straight per Dm and if they want to camp they can camp and bank the money. 03:45.94 archpodnet Yeah, you can? yeah. 03:48.35 Heather I Try to do that. But there's a lot of times where I can't our contracts require us to hand in receipts. So just you know that is something to remember I think those days are going to start going away a little bit. Um I think it's going to be fewer and fewer jobs that you're going to be able to do that So being able to bank. 03:58.25 archpodnet A. 04:06.92 Heather Like that people need to maybe look relook at that strategy. Um I know that's not what you were saying people do. But I I know there's a lot of people that did that I mean they were very very good at you know, living very um, very small when they're in the field and then being able to bank so that they could take some good time off and I. 04:09.90 archpodnet Um, yeah. 04:26.59 Heather You know I think new strategies need to be looked at because that that's not going to be his comment anymore. 04:29.50 archpodnet Yeah now I've talked about this on the show before that kind of a project put me through grad school right now I was in a accelerated 1 year program because it was 3 long semesters at the university of georgia so I only had like a year to do this but because it was such an intense. Ah. Course load for that. There was no time for work right? I mean there was literally no time for work I had 18 credits a semester for three semesters you know fall spring and a summer semester that was just packed in and I was the I was one of None people in my cohort of only None that actually graduated on time. That's how. 04:51.82 Heather Right. 05:06.69 archpodnet That's how hard it was to actually fit all that into three semesters and it's probably why the program's not around anymore I don't know if that's the reason or not. But either way it's ah the project we had before that now it helps that I had somebody with me at the time my wife was my girlfriend at the time and we had this project where. 05:08.58 Heather Right? yeah. 05:24.73 archpodnet It was 110 a day cash and and they again it was a pipeline and they were just authorizing unlimited overtime. So the company basically said if you want to work every day and not take a day off. That's fine if you want to take a day off, you can tell us literally that morning. You don't want to work because we want your sanity to be there. But if you want to work every day. It's open for you to do so. And on top of that we were camping at a hotel in a town a hotel that had like Rv spots that they let us camp at None of them for $7 a day total. So we're making so we're making 2 20 and per dm and what was costing us. 05:46.20 Heather How nice. 05:52.39 Heather Um, ah I I make. 05:59.13 archpodnet $7 a day for camping and then food was pretty cheap because we were you know there was literally nowhere to eat out there so we were just cooking all our food and it was yeah an ot and it was it was amazing. We put like you know 20 grand in the bank in a couple months in a few months and ah, that's what I lived on. My wife came back out here when I was in school for part of the season. 06:03.97 Heather Um O T Student T yeah. 06:19.50 archpodnet And continued to work and and ah and and I basically didn't have to work for that year for grad school now again, those projects don't come around that often. But as Heather was saying you really don't just look when you're looking at a project. Don't a lot of people focus on. Okay I can get to this one easy because it's near me or it's in an area that I want to be those are definitely factors in consideration depending on your lifestyle and and whether or not you have a family stuff like that. There are definitely things you need to think about, but every once in a while you got to just kind of take one of those projects that might be a little further away. But. Like Heather said it's a camping project. You don't mind that they're giving you good per Dm that you can just sock away and and you can be frugal for a little while and it's long enough that you can do that. Don't drive a thousand miles for a two week project right? but drive a thousand miles for ah for a one month project or a six week project that's you know 07:03.97 Heather Um, right. 07:09.94 archpodnet Given you you know over ninety hundred bucks a day or more and you can camp on Blm line or something like that with other people and you know have that security so you know look for those every once in a while they're if they're not totally comfortable for you. You don't have to do them all the time but like they're really good for your bank account doug. 07:25.86 Heather Yeah. 07:26.29 Doug Yeah, well I was slightly to switch back to what we were discussing a bit earlier um in terms of like you know talking about finances and jobs and whatnot is something that you know if at your none season you may not have considered this and. Um, other people have done this in the past for for decades is ah winter jobs in that like you know it depends where you're at so as we've discussed like California Florida um, you know those are sort of most well it depends where California is quite long. Um. 07:49.52 archpodnet Yeah. 08:01.79 archpodnet Yeah, um. 08:04.87 Doug Yeah, know as you head north and into the mountains. It gets a bit snowy. But ah yeah, you know there's there's places where basically you can work all year round and then there's places where no it shuts down in the winter. Um, and if if you if they don't have work for you and say the lab or anything like that. Um, and usually I mean if you're. 08:13.90 archpodnet Yeah. 08:24.15 Doug If this is your None job None and None out tends to be how a lot of organizations work. Um, and there's yeah, there's there's various reasons for that one is a legal thing. it's it's it's much easier to fight lawsuits when you have something that's relatively fair-ish um, and that's. 08:41.74 archpodnet Right. 08:42.85 Doug Term Legally so they tend to let you go? Um, yeah, and so you know it's It's people who've been with the company longest will be able to stay on. So um, what a lot of people do is you know? Ah, it's the bumming but you know they do shovel buming during the ah the summer and then um. Key bums during the ah winter and basically you know workers like ah on you know, various Ski snowboarding um or other winter sports ish sort of sites that also have seasonal workers where essentially you know there's the. 09:05.78 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 09:11.96 Heather What. 09:16.74 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 09:22.54 Doug I'm ah call it skiing. Um, just because that's how it's always been known as the ski season. But um, you know so now it's probably I think majority people are priced, no borders. But um, yeah, you know it's it's another sort of seasonal job that works really well for archaeology. Um, because you can basically go from season to season and of course you know if you're not into any of those sort of winter sports There can be other sort of seasonal jobs. Especially when you you hit like Christmas time and Walmart Amazon target. 09:51.25 archpodnet Um, yeah. 09:59.26 Doug Everyone is looking to hire people seasonally for the the Christmas season. Um, so it's it's it's yeah. 10:02.58 archpodnet I Well there's like uber doordash stuff like that too. 10:05.90 Heather Yeah, here's another option is you know, being strategic trying to work for a company that's large so we bring in when we get so like we can't even fill our spots. We'll fly people in from the East Coast 10:18.76 archpodnet Right. 10:23.91 Heather To come and help us people that we've had like we started just in the last few years. We've really started um, increasing our footprint across the the United States and so we have met some great archeologists back east and in the midwest. 10:37.86 archpodnet Um. 10:40.63 Heather Um, that we've used and we have no problem. Well now that won't doesn't mean you're always going to get flown in. But if you can prove yourself with the company that is across the country and then you let them know listen if you got something somewhere else I'm willing to to travel. Um. It would be very helpful if the travel is paid for um and these days it's really minimal think about you put somebody on a plane for a few hundred dollars you're still going to have to put them up at a hotel and everything else anyway. So it's not that big of a deal for a couple extra hundred dollars to fly somebody in if there were a good. Um. 11:03.61 archpodnet Yeah. 11:14.60 archpodnet Yeah. 11:17.66 Heather If they're good. You know so getting with companies getting in good with companies and showing your prowess with companies that have a large footprint across the United States is a big big help. Especially if you're in the midwest and the East Coast and you're looking for work during the winter. 11:31.73 archpodnet Right? And that that goes to one of the notes I put down too which is basically just become an asset right? and and you can become an asset in a number of ways if you're thinking Well I'm green I don't know anything. How do I become an asset. Well you can just become an asset by not being an asshole right? like that's just. 11:37.80 Heather Yet. 11:48.23 Heather Yes, yes, yes. 11:51.72 archpodnet If you're if you're somebody that that people like working around. You're a hard worker you you don't complain but you're also not getting walked on all the time not complaining doesn't mean that you're just taking everything that comes to you It means that you know you're you're a critical thinker you're sitting there. You're you're coming up with solutions. But ultimately. 12:01.80 Heather Right. 12:09.16 archpodnet You're not the one in charge and you have to go with what's what's given to you from on high you know, even if that's just the crew chief. But also you know feel free to voice your opinions I think if you're at a company where you can't voice your opinions then you don't want to be at that company but but don't do it in a way that burns the bridge. 12:20.99 Heather But also do right I mean you know you can tell right away when people are just constantly trying to reinvent the will to make themselves stand out and so. 12:29.84 archpodnet Um, yeah. 12:36.60 Heather You know there should be plenty of times that you're doing something and something comes up and you're like you know what? what? Ah you know, wonder if they'd want to hear this that I I've experienced before or I kind of came up with this idea to do this but don't always be looking for an opportunity to rein the at the wheel because remember what you're doing is you are. 12:49.15 archpodnet A. 12:55.19 Heather Criticizing the ways the way they do it So you better have a really good way to introduce what it is that you're um, in you know that that that you think is a better idea and also make sure it's ah it's a better idea, not just something that you're coming up with so you can say you have an idea. 13:11.80 archpodnet Um, yeah. 13:13.89 Heather You know that's pretty transparent pretty quick and that's another form and of an 8 ight-hole so just you know do your work. Do it well be fun to be around. Um you know I've hired people that have less experience but they're so trainable and they'll catch on. 13:18.20 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 13:23.88 archpodnet No. Yeah. 13:32.72 Heather Quick I can catch them up to a guy to a person that has a lot of experience that is ah you know pretty good in lots of different areas I can catch them up in six to nine months where you are but I can't take the jerk out of you. Okay, so I think rather. 13:46.94 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 13:51.85 Heather Train somebody for six to nine months to bring them up to speed then to deal with somebody whose attitude is likely not going to change them. 13:56.45 archpodnet Right? Go ahead. Doug. 13:58.81 Doug Yeah, yeah, ah, they call it? Um, well okay, so the most recent is like the zuckerberg effect um or ah, the um, ah before it was ah which we called it from Apple but basically like ah you know, encoding circles. Ah, people got this idea that to be a Ceo you need to act like a Ceo or something like that or act and they looked at at people like Steve Jobs who was a notorious asshole. Um, and people like Mark Zuckerberg or Bezos. 14:23.20 archpodnet Um. 14:29.59 archpodnet Yeah. 14:36.74 Doug And then they imitate that and like um, it's or I've heard someone refer to it as like the sherlock effects like um, the Cumberbatch version of Sherlock where like smart people need to feel like they to be smart. You need to be an asshole. 14:45.44 archpodnet Ah. 14:53.17 archpodnet Yeah. 14:54.14 Heather Well, it's just it's just Insecurity insecure. Well yeah. 14:56.90 Doug Like yeah, yeah, but like in terms of stuff like yeah I'm with Heather like anytime I would I would take someone who on paper with looked like less experience or. You know, maybe they don't have that degree or whatever. Um, but man if they're nice and they're willing to learn instantly take that over someone who is like who is good like you might have all the skills in the world. Um, you might be super smart. Um, but like if you're an asshole to work with. 15:20.79 Heather Yes. 15:30.37 archpodnet M. 15:32.88 Doug Ah, it's like it's team management and you know people like that just destroy teams like you know we if you've you're yeah, you're in your first season. So you're not going to know this. But if if you go on and you eventually work in in management which is a completely different skill set. 15:38.55 archpodnet Yeah. 15:41.10 Heather Yep. 15:52.68 Doug Um, you're going to look at how people work together as a team. Not necessarily individuals and that that can be sometimes very hard to stomach when like you find out someone else has less experience. Got a job than you did um, but sometimes it's more about moving together. Um. 15:57.43 archpodnet Yeah. 16:12.67 Doug To use an analogy chess pieces on the board like you're trying to fit together a puzzle of a team and it may be that that person has less less use of experience but they have something else that um makes them stand out and that could be something as simple as like they have a driver's license and you need. 16:17.30 Heather Yes. 16:27.82 Heather Right? Or get home right or have your or you have somebody who literally I've already filled my certain slots at the higher pay rate. 16:31.45 Doug You need people to drive and that's it. 16:39.74 archpodnet Yeah. 16:42.93 Heather I don't need somebody with as much experience as you had. We talked about this before sometimes it's just a matter of we already got somebody to fill your level. Um, and so now we just need people with less experience that we can you know that our budget can handle at a lower pay pay rate. So. It's nothing personal. It's exactly what doug said it's a test. It's scheduling is so difficult, especially for larger projects. Yeah. 17:09.60 archpodnet Yeah, all right? well. 17:10.98 Doug And and that can also happen as well. Um, when like if you're looking for your you know we're talking about getting your next job. Um, sometimes like it's also trying to schedule people and like let's say you can't start for two weeks um they may have to go with someone else. 17:17.47 archpodnet Yeah. 17:26.63 Heather Yeah. 17:28.77 Doug And so that's sometimes it is. It's it's worth having conversations with both potential employers like who you're working with now and who who you're working with in the future to ask be like hey guys is it. Okay, if I leave two weeks early um because then I can go take this other job and you know. It's it's independent on the project but sometimes companies can do with losing people actually sometimes it's actually helpful like you might be slightly overstaffed. Um, it's it's good to have communications. Ah good clear communication with whoever's employing you. 17:53.65 Heather Um, no or grief. 18:05.59 Doug And again, what we've talked about if they get if someone gets really upity and angry and threatens to like blackball you for for archeology for going to a different job. Well, you know not to work for them. Um, in the future or ever again or you know it's a good sign but like. 18:17.20 Heather Gift. Best. 18:17.95 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 18:23.34 Doug We've all been there. We all know that like yeah sometimes you're going to lose staff mid-project because there's a better offer and that's that's something you deal with it sucks when you're trying to manage and keep a project going, but it's how it's how life goes. 18:31.23 archpodnet Yep. 18:35.19 archpodnet Indeed and with that we'll take a break and wrap up this discussion on the other side back in a minute.