00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the none and final segment of the sirmark podcast episode None 43 and we are talking about. You know what? you should do for your none season and what both Doug and Heather were talking about in the last part of the last segment I'll tell you what I think any crew. That gets along and enjoys their own company will get a lot more done regardless of their experience level than a crew that does not or even if that crew has like None person that's just bringing the crew down right for whatever reason that is they're bringing them down and I I have said this on the show before my none. 00:25.68 Heather Um, yes. 00:36.47 archpodnet Years in zero M and maybe even now I don't know people just don't want to tell me but my first few years in crm I was probably really hard to work with because I've always been that this is just my personality I've always been that type of person that tries to look for different ways to do something and and I didn't always and. Information very know know but I'm not I've I never and again it's been a lifelong struggle to present this information in a way that is not offensive and condescending because it's it's just a really hard thing to do right? and. 00:54.21 Heather That's why you're laughing when I say but. 01:04.82 Heather Yeah, yeah. 01:10.53 archpodnet When I did my I did my field school in Africa and there was a volunteer on that crew that he was actually just he just paid to be there right? He just wanted to come out and do this thing in Africa and so he paid to be there and it was his job. He was an efficiency expert for massive enterprise companies and he would actually. Analyze these companies without them knowing it and he would he would he would spend like six months drawing up this really detailed profile using publicly available information about a company and then he would walk in the front door and say I can save you guys $10000000 a year if you listen to me for the next you know None urs and I want you to pay me. Ah, you know x percentageed that and he did about 2 of these a year and that's how he funded his life and he was just like a massive high end efficiency expert when it comes to stuff like that and I was like really resonated with me not that I had that any sort of skill set but I've always kind of thought that way looking at a process and saying how can we dial this in a little bit better. But. Again I didn't always present it very well and especially when you don't have the experience or credentials to back that up, you just look like an asshole so you know so yeah. 02:14.11 Heather Yes, and there is that I brought it up because I'm the same as you I learned over time that you know even though you have a good idea. There's a reason why maybe they there may be a reason why they did. They're not doing way you think and you need to give it some time. 02:26.55 archpodnet Um, yeah. 02:32.39 Heather To season in your brain so that you can figure out is does this make sense for me to mention So don't like impulsively answer because on the same way there was when I was younger I did I I always was like oh what about this? What about that and now I realize how irritating that is and um. 02:32.79 archpodnet Right? Yeah, like. 02:50.98 Heather So I you know for people and I know for me for some people that aren't like that that aren't like you Chris or me um, maybe Doug's that way too. Um, they don't get that they think you're just being a know it all you know? Um, but for people like us for like you know and I get you I understand what you're doing there. Okay. 03:02.96 archpodnet Yeah. 03:09.90 Heather But here's a clue. Don't do that because it's really it's irri entertainating and the person that may not be like that and may not have compassion for you in your you know immaturity. Ah, for the time being may have all the short control in the world. Whether or not, you're going to get work. So just. 03:10.35 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 03:24.78 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 03:27.78 Heather Yeah I think it's a really good and I think archaeologists tend to be that way in some ways I just see I think the personality there's a lot of people like that and so you get under people's skin real easy. 03:31.56 archpodnet Um. Could be yeah. 03:40.44 Doug So I Ah um, um, ah I want to fend you guys a little bit ah like like the chrises and Heather of the world. Um, and just also say like um and I think this comes back to we've we've been mention this in different forms but a lot of it is. 03:46.65 Heather Um I. 03:59.20 Doug Um, we've sort of mentioned like you know, find a company you want to work for but also like companies are not like there's different types. Um, and there's different sizes and that makes a huge difference like working for a small company. You're going to get chances to do a lot more varied ah positions. Just because like they they won't have like a dedicated yeah gis person they may have like someone who does that sometimes and then it's out in the field and so there's there's different things and it's it's exploring that. But also ah part of it is exploring. Um, the people with the organization and the sort of. 04:36.13 archpodnet Ah. 04:36.13 Doug Culture of the organization. This is I'm coming back to you guys and defending you guys is you know some organizations I saw someone another day and they they said something great which is like if you find yourself saying we've tried that no too many times it means it's time for you to move on. 04:52.56 archpodnet Huh. 04:53.50 Heather Um, yeah, are. 04:54.75 Doug Um, and so like you do get this like for for the Christians and Heathers of the world. Um, you sometimes that is also a cultural thing where ah you get people you you'll end up in a company where people they've becoming a bit jaded like there's there's a. 05:00.34 Heather Um, yeah. 05:13.51 Doug There's definitely a place for like lots of experience. Um and and you gotta make sure you're not jaded and sometimes you end up with people who have been in it for twenty or thirty years and they've just become jaded and they'll be like oh we tried that back in the 80 s and you're like or well the 90 s I guess is now it's now the 90 s where I was there. They were like. 05:25.85 archpodnet Um, yeah is now the 90 s. 05:32.16 Doug Ah, we we tried this back in the 80 s or whatever. But um, you know, ah sometimes that's cultural like ah you know one is what you guys have talked about like taking people under the wing. So like if you if you are a heather and Chris and um, someone's sort of taking you aside and like showing you the ropes of. How to approach this that is an excellent ah person or organization to be working with um but it can also be like you. You could be finding out quite quickly that there's a lot of jaded people who are just like nope nope never not not a not a nope um and so. 05:57.16 archpodnet Yeah. 06:03.86 archpodnet Right? right. 06:10.86 Doug Yeah, part of that is figuring out like a place. Um, where you want to work and also sometimes like I know we talk at like place culture but honestly like a lot of culture is just individuals um like in a workplace. Um, and really. 06:15.25 archpodnet Yeah. 06:23.73 archpodnet Yeah. 06:24.95 Heather Um, interests. 06:29.97 Doug Yeah, it. It can change um and sometimes it it is just finding like you maybe thought like a big organization was not something for you like you didn't want to work for None of the big engineering firms where you'd be None of like None employees or something doing something but you might actually find that like your your team. Your archeology team is amazing and that's actually what it is so um I think there is differences between the sizes of organizations types and stuff but a lot of it comes down to the individuals and finding individuals that you like to work with. 06:59.40 archpodnet Yeah, right? but. 07:02.82 Heather Yeah, that it's in the long run ah of make life a lot a lot. Um, you know more enjoyable I mean work is work but there's no reason you know where right now we're going through a hiring and it it really from somebody who hires. 07:09.82 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 07:22.25 Heather Full time. The full time staff. It's as much personality. Um, we've had multiple multiple candidates come that were looked really good that Were're just not. You know I just did not think they were going to be a good fit and you know I I wanted to bring. 07:34.69 archpodnet Right? That's a lot of it. 07:39.70 Heather Yeah, it is. It's I can't like I tell my kids that all the time and they're both pretty. You know, nice people. Ah I mean there are nice people I should say they are but they they are sorry kids. Um. 07:46.78 archpodnet Ah, for the most part. They're nice people. 07:57.00 Heather They're both, you know going to their professional lives though and a lot of times they think they're they're very self-deprecating like both of them are they're very humble to a fault and I keep telling them. You guys guys are good people. You're nice people you work hard. Um, don't underestimate the value of that Like. Don't be looking at oh this person knows so much more than me and think that you're less than they are ah that's not that's not how life goes and trust me the people. The people that are likable are usually there's you know, success catapults a lot quicker than than just the Mr smarty pants. But. 08:18.53 archpodnet Oh what. 08:34.41 Heather The None one thing I I did want to touch on in this segment is um, having I know we've talked a lot about companies should pay for your education if they want you to learn more skills. They should pay for that and I agree but as an as needed which is where most people are in the beginning. Um. Unless you're very lucky. Ah you are not ah you're not full time and people are very unless they're requiring you to do a skill. Um, they're not going to train you so and or they're not going to pay for your training so it is incumbent on you to find. 09:02.89 archpodnet Um, yeah. 09:11.39 Heather And your own your responsibility to find ways of continuing education and to increase your skill set so that should it should be your hobby. It should be something that you're doing not only doing on the job if you can get paid to learn to do something awesome but have. A list of things that you're continually adding to that. You'd like I said in the back of that field book book that you were saying okay I want to learn how to do this and this and then pick up on these things that people say are good skills to have and then go out on your own and start doing what you can to learn them if you don't have the opportunity to do it in the field. Because that's you can't wait until that's going to happen because that's just luck if it does you have to go out and you have to pursue Opportunities. There's so many online courses now that you can avail yourself as yourself up to build your skill set and it is your responsibility ability to do that. 09:57.71 archpodnet Yeah. 10:01.95 Heather If any as needed person were to come in to a a company and say you know what I think you should pay for my education. It's just not going to happen and you can't back and say well it should be this way. Okay, well, that's fine. You think when you become the boss you can change it. Okay, if that if your mind doesn't change when you get in that position. But. 10:07.53 archpodnet Um. 10:21.36 Heather If you want to be better at what you do you have responsibility to make yourself better and to educate yourself. Yeah. 10:25.75 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, indeed Doug. 10:31.22 Doug Yeah, um I think it's so if if it's new people who are listening to this. Um I mean we've we've brought this up many a time on different episodes. But maybe they? yeah you haven't joined us um in the past. But I think None thing to think about. Also. Um, when thinking about your career is possibility of needing to move. Um I know this? ah like if for most people who've been in cm for a while. It's sort of like yeah no doubt. Um, but like it is one of the biggest. Um. 10:53.31 archpodnet No. 11:07.89 Doug Ah, sort of disconnects at least I find with students over in in the U K um and and this is ah we're talking about Crm here. But this is mostly applicable to pretty much any job you can think of. Um, like if if you if you've lived in a really rural area. You know that there's not that many jobs and like you you know you need to move and stuff like that. Um, and archeology is a bit harder because there are. It's just not a very big field like yeah, okay, so you know working at ah know like a. 11:26.00 Heather Um, yes. 11:30.40 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 11:45.61 Doug None or you know doing retail something like that you have a lot more options. Um for jobs. But even then you know certain areas just don't have jobs and you you have to move and Archeology is one of those things where like if you want to move up or you sometimes have to move Out. Um. And sometimes even just to be able to have a job.. You're going to have to probably like move around like you might get lucky and maybe you're based out of a city that has multiple companies and you could spend your whole career jumping between them and do just fine. 12:15.99 archpodnet Um. 12:22.47 Doug That does happen. But I'd say that's a ah minority. Um a very small minority. There's you're you're going to have to move on and so it might be thinking like when we're talking about you know, looking for your next job. It might be. You've gotten your None job with like the one company. 12:26.25 archpodnet Yeah. 12:40.17 Doug Within like three hundred miles of of where you're at you're currently at um and so you might be thinking and it's to get in that mindset that you you might have to move and that can that can be really tough because it's not the easiest thing to do ah rent is really high. Ah. 12:40.64 archpodnet Yeah. 12:57.12 archpodnet Um. 12:58.99 Doug Pay can be when we talk about low pay. It's it's better than other ah jobs worse than many others. Um, but like you know there's financial things there as well. Um I think part of what you should be doing this first year is actually like having a realistic look to see like. 13:05.94 archpodnet Yeah, yeah. 13:18.40 Doug Can you stay in the area and can you move and if you can't you might have a clock on your on your time and it might just be something you do in the summers for a couple of summers. Um, and yeah, and. 13:19.45 archpodnet M. 13:26.80 archpodnet Well and and not only that but like what Heather said you know it's you know companies like it behooves them to fly somebody good out to work on their project from the East Coast right but looking at that same thing. But doesn't mean also that you can't actually look for jobs on the opposite coast from where you're at if you just tell the company say hey if I get there like you know will I have use of a field vehicle or are we going out. You know something like that and if you happen to be in a big town. Maybe you can just use uber while you're there, but it might be cheaper just to get a plane ticket. Fly out to wherever you're going and then you know long as you've got a way to get around over there again. There's lots of ways these days depending on where you're at but ask the company specifically say I'm going to fly in and I'm going to need a little bit of support. So if they're willing to do that again. It might be cheaper than especially in gas prices these days than driving fifteen hundred miles in your car putting the wear and tear on that and then having to deal with that when you get there too to just hop on a plane and and fly over so you know keep that in mind right? Yeah yeah. 14:27.71 Heather I'd be really impressed if somebody did that and was taking up wherewithal to to just make it happen for them I'd be that would impress me and then any good person any even if they're not the best is gonna look and say okay I Okay, this guy's or girl. 14:43.49 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, my ah my wife did that when I was in grad school again. She came back back out to Nevada for the for the continuing field season. 14:45.40 Heather Is really going the extra mile I got to find something for him right? They'll just find something and then that gives you a leg in. 15:00.46 archpodnet Ah, because she was going to keep working and she flew into reno got on an Amtrak and took that all the way to elco Nevada where they picked her up from the or maybe it was winammucca where what city they were in at the time. But either way she took the ham track across Nevada. And then somebody picked her up at the train station and from that point on she was fine. She had field vehicles and stuff like that. But yeah I mean you you get there? Ah no matter how you can so um, but anyway a couple more things just did as we're wrapping this up so we'll have some final thoughts here but I did want to say some things that people tend to forget sometimes. Don't forget to update your resume constantly during this period to be honest, once you're a couple of years in you're not necessarily updating your resume every job right? because you're getting work and that's the whole point of your resume to begin with. So if you have no problem getting work and I mean I say keep it updated but not as critical as it is right now in this phase that you're in right now and not just. 15:35.34 Heather Um, yes. 15:53.14 archpodnet The entries in there but make sure all those little things that you volunteered to do say hey you know not proficient in you know, using a tremble for gis but have used one at least you know that's better than some people who have never used None right? So that might give you a leg up but also look at your references did you meet anybody on that project or. Have a good rapport with somebody that is in a leadership position over you not just another field crew person. Do not put them down as your reference use a crew chief at the very minimum but hopefully somebody a little bit higher that directly work for you because when the employer calls that reference they want to know not that you. You know you're somebody in the office that they never actually met but that you're somebody that actually observed them working right? That's a valuable reference and companies like heathers with hr departments are making those calls and asking serious questions and and taking that information you know and and using it. So um. 16:43.50 Heather Um, that's. 16:49.86 archpodnet So that's ah that's important it's just ah, just to keep that updated and None last thing that we don't really have time to talk about that I took down as a note is even though this might be your first year maybe closer to the end of this field season just through simple attrition sometimes you might be asked to take a leadership position. It might seem. Nuts that hey you've been working in archeology for three months and you're being asked to be a crew chief on a crew. Maybe that crew is only None or 3 people who knows but you might be asked that question, especially if you've got previous life experience doing something in a leadership position and they know that be very cautious about taking that job. 17:19.37 Heather The. 17:24.30 archpodnet You might be tempted by the extra ยข50 an hour but be very cautious about taking that job because it's a lot of responsibility and it may not be the right time I'm not saying it's not the right time but just seriously think about it and don't just look at it as oh I need this for my career. You don't right now right? You you really don't if this is your None time in. But if. 17:40.99 Heather Um, so I have 1 comment on that. Um, and it's very very sound advice I'll just say that there are sometimes where the position that they need fits well with your ah. 17:44.25 archpodnet If you're not ready for it. You can really screw it up. Go ahead. 18:00.22 Heather With your personality or if its fits well with your skill set such as it's doesn't always require somebody who is um, a major leader or has a lot of experience sometimes the crew Chief role Every project's different and every um field Supervisor is different. 18:01.33 archpodnet Sure. 18:18.40 archpodnet That's true. 18:20.40 Heather So Let's say if you're somebody who shows that you that you follow the directions well and that you have respect for the work plan and the research design. That's already been given if I know that this person if I give them here's the work plan. This is what I need done every day. And you're getting direction every day. Um, and I know this person better than anyone else is going to follow. But I tell them to 2 I'm going to want that person in the field because I trust that the work plan's going to be followed and sometimes it's just a matter of having the skill set of. 18:46.33 archpodnet Um. 18:57.82 Heather Following a work plan and doing what you're told to do and so um I would ask the questions I think absolutely there are times where people are just desperate and they're going to put you in there and you're going to end up. It's going to hurt your confidence and you're going to be put in a position that you're not ready for um, but ask the question. 18:57.88 archpodnet Um, yeah, yeah. 19:13.17 archpodnet Brett. 19:15.45 Heather Jens ask him say listen I I'm really honored I'm so I'm very flattered that you asked me I really want to take on you know more resp responsibilitybilities is absolutely what I'm all about. But I also want to make sure that I'm doing right by the job I'm doing right by you can you tell me more about what the responsibilities are. 19:32.74 archpodnet M. 19:34.52 Heather Then So don't be afraid to ask those questions. That's a fair question and again we have a theme here today if somebody has an issue with so a reasonable question or a reasonable stance on something they're probably not somebody you want to continue to work for So just. 19:48.64 archpodnet Yeah. 19:51.63 Heather You know, ask questions or something wrong with asking questions because maybe you are suited for it. 19:55.23 archpodnet Yeah, don't don't be afraid to be new. Everybody knows you're new. But you know don't don't be memorable in a bad way. You know, be memorable in a good way because all they're going to remember is that you're new and and you screwed everything up so you know own own The fact that you're green. Yeah. 19:58.58 Heather Um, yeah, yes, amen. 20:09.10 Heather And don't try and you knew yeah, don't try to hide that you're green because look it's transparent everybody knows don't try to don't be that high. That's like saying I did this and I did that and kind of put a mustard as my family says putting mustard on it. 20:13.25 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, we were all there. 20:26.47 Heather Saying that you've done all these things that you haven't done because you're going to be found out and and then now you have a reputation you can't get right of just better. Be honest now. 20:29.10 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, exactly yep and when that happens you just end up being host of a podcast. So all right? Well now. So. 20:38.65 Heather Yeah, certainly. 20:45.31 archpodnet This has been a great episode I'm glad we had this topic. Thanks for that. We've got a really cool interview coming up next time about really kind of the health and and where the serum industry is by a couple of people who have at least None of them's been on the show before and they. They've put together some research in a paper and it's it's really worth tuning in for so check that out when it comes around and again if you're interested in being on the show and talking about your experiences with your first field season hit me up Chris at http://archeologypodcastnetwork.com or you can go to http://arpodnett.com and my contact information is right at the top of the page all right. We'll see you guys next time with our interview. Okay, so keeping this rolling for the outro here we go thanks to everyone for joining me this week thanks also to the listeners for tuning in and we'll see you in the field goodbye tugs. 21:38.43 Heather Goodbye everyone more 3 2 1 21:38.89 archpodnet Counting down. 21:43.62 Doug So goodbye. Everyone. 21:43.70 archpodnet Here We go if only we could include the the chat image with our with our outro but we can't yeah I know I know it's pretty quick. 21:48.76 Heather Yeah, right? that was impressive. How did you do that So fast. 21:53.80 Doug I actually lots of practice I mean this is I usually sometimes just choose a random like 100 for 95 just just just to mess with Chris um, yeah, no, no, just lots of practice. Ah. 22:02.67 Heather Ah. 22:04.79 archpodnet Yeah. All right indeed. 22:10.80 Doug This has been going on for a couple None episodes now. 22:12.63 Heather Got it mix it up.