00:01.40 kinkella Hello and welcome back to the pseudo archeology podcast episode 118 and we are talking about shipwrecks and treasure hunting and so with this last bit what to do in terms of dealing with the. Treasure Hunter world and all that kind of stuff man this stuff I will say as the decades go by. It does get better, but it's still a pain and what do I mean by that there are people out there who still their focus is on finding treasure. And unfortunately what that means the complete sentence is their focus is on totally destroying the archeology site in the vain self-centered narcissistic hope of trying to find some gold or something. Which they won't find because the chances are terrible. So that's how that world goes. Unfortunately, they have brutalized you know hundreds of shipwrecks throughout the decades. These guys go out there. They get they get weird money or from places that will. Sort of bankroll them and they go looking for these vaguely famous army treasure places and it's just a big disaster all around. It's really sad. Their attitude is that. 01:30.76 kinkella Disgusting finders' keeper's attitude. You know oh I just I find it and it's mine because look I put the money into looking for it I like to think about look if if I'm giving a lecture and my students are there and they listen to me and then they leave. And 1 of you leaves your cell phone is that mine now I found it. Finders keepers it's my cell phone. No, it's your cell phone right? It's the same thing with all this treasure hunting crap right? It's not yours to take It's a very self-centered way of looking at the world and it just it drives me nuts but it feels almost weird because we have heard this trope of treasure hunting for so long and it's just a bad thing to do right? Just don't do it. And they sneaky it by bringing up things like salvage right? I have a salvage permit for this but they really don't 1 thing that really helps is what's called the abandoned shipwrecked act of 1987 and so the United States came up with this law that basically says look all shipwrecks found in the United States found in rivers and found I believe it's up to three miles out from the coast that stuff changes over time. But I I think that's what it is. 02:54.95 kinkella Hey, look they're owned by the Us government which means they're owned by the american people which means you can't just go and quote unquote salvage a ship you know, ah because it's an archeological site. It's a historic site. You don't get to. Break it and mess with it and destroy it. It has to be um, permitted by the United States government and that's a great thing I love the abandoned shipwrecked act of 198087 because before that you you just have these cowboy people who are out there just trying to. Find stuff for themselves. Um, now I will say another great thing about the United States is the United States military never gives up a ship right? And what that means is if there's an aircraft carrier that's sunk in the pacific you know. From world war 2 or this kind of thing. It is still owned by the United States right so foreign entities don't get to dig in it that is a United States ship and the us never gives up a ship now on the flip side. You know I think as we think about that we feel good about that as americans we're like yeah damn straight. That's our ship now we have to think of it the other way though too because if France has a boat that is sunk in United States waters we got to go like all right? That's the property of France you know you know what I'm saying work works both ways. 04:26.73 kinkella But I really like this idea though of also treating shipwrecks as archeological resources or historic resources that they have a ah story to tell and often they are tombs on top of it. You know there are dead people in there. So. It's not really right just to go trifling through it in order to try and find our meet the blooms. You know so good for the abandoned Shipwreck Deck now in my travels in this world of stuff I do come across these people sometimes these kind of shipwreck hunters and it doesn't help at all that the media totally. Boosts these guys. You know to try and make them look like some pseudo culture hero which they're not and so many of them doubled down on that crop. Do this again. Finders keeper's attitude. Always bad. What I find as I come across these people I try I do try and treat them with a light touch because there's no way I'm going to change their view. You know I can't sit there and and just give my professor a speech and be like well you know guys you see. 05:40.41 kinkella When you're looking for treasure. That's really wrong I mean the abandoned shipwreck act they're gonna be like shut up dude. But I do try and treat them with a light but firm touch meaning I'll say something like you know you shouldn't really be doing that It's really uncool. It destroys the patrimony of history for all of us. Um, why don't you help out on a project. Why don't you work together with archaeologists. So I will bring that stuff up again. It almost never works. But I do try and give them an out of like. Hey you know you could you could help instead of hinder. Ah I do I do respect your interest in this world right? These kind of things and often if people are sort of. Curious about this world. Maybe they they don't want to be treasure hunters they find treasure hunting interesting because we all do on the surface I do tend to recommend 2 books that I think are really really cool. 1 is called the Hms Fowy lost and found it's by these guys. Um, ah, scourneck and fisher and I'll put a link. Below to to their book I want to say it came out like ten years ago or so but it traces their um experience in terms of finding this ship the hms foul we identifying the ship itself which can be really really hard and. 07:10.37 kinkella Dealing with it in terms of the archeology in terms of what to do with the site in terms of the artifacts themselves. We want to realize that if we bring up metal artifacts from a ship. They instantly start to corrode I mean iron is one of the worst things. That's why in places like Florida you'll find like a corroded sad cannon in front of some weird restaurant. You know because somebody brought it up forty years ago and they had no idea how to deal with it after they just went or me cannon. You know and brought it up to show everyone look I found a cannon and then then they did nothing to preserve it. So. It's just a Rusty sad hulk and that happens again and again in that world. The same thing is true of cannon balls or other metal parts of ships. Soon as you bring them out of the salt water. They just start to corrode. They just it's sad and very difficult actually to keep it from not corroding once you bring it up very very difficult in the underwater archeology world to deal with that stuff. So ah. Anyway, the the book the hms foley book is really great because it goes all the way through what their journey was like and behind the scenes trying to deal with that. Um I think it's really great. The other one is Rachel Lances in the waves and she talks about a civil war. Um boat. 08:37.96 kinkella But has actually been raised. It's a submarine. It's it's one of the earliest submarines and same thing. Her history of working on this project dealing with it dealing with kind of outsiders that the trials and travails of studying something like this really really great. Actually came across Rachel Lance's work because I believe she was a member of the explorers club which I am too and she gave a presentation and I was like wow this is a really interesting presentation. Um, and I recommend that book right and left so between those 2 it really gives you a good. Healing for good ways to deal with modern shipwrecks and the awesome stories that go with it. Both of those could be made into movies in a in a second both great great books. Um. 09:30.36 kinkella I think the only way out of the world of the r me treasure. It's all for me, you know is is is the old cliche of just teaching the public these kind of things showing them good stories. You know, showing them. How shipwrecks can be treated well showing them that that the idea of treasure is really not that exciting because I can go look at this bar of gold and you go oh my god a bar of gold and then a minute later I go look I found gold and you're like mm. And then 3 minutes later I'm like no no, no there's gold you like and really the the historic story is that much better. So you don't even have to sit there and go tisk tisk how dare you want treasure. All you have to do is on the flip side just go look at this awesome story I have. Look at this awesome story of the past look at this crazy thing that I've reconstructed isn't that cool and that will sell so much better than just are look at me treasure. And with that I think we're good and I'll see you guys next time.