00:00.00 kinkella Hello and welcome back to the pseudo archeology podcast episode 137 I'm your host Dr Andrew King Keller and we have been discussing good god atlantis so with with looking at Atlantis you know we were talking in. The previous segment about how um Plato himself talked about atlantis as not happening nine Thousand years ago beyond the pillars of Hercules otherwise literally long ago and far away and it's. Again, so similar to the star wars intro crawl of a long time ago in a galaxy far far away right now even with this story that was basically written in the fourth century Bc. It was so popular that it has lived up until today and if anything has expanded you know now as we all know after the greek period ah of which Plato is a part and then the romans come in. You have the. Dark ages right? So all that greek stuff all that knowledge all that science kind of goes away for a while but we find it again in the Renaissance now the renaissance has all kinds of great things like ah you know this re resurgence rebirth of science. But. 01:34.97 kinkella You also get a rebirth and a refinding of all this Atlanta's crap but tracing the sort of rebirth of this is really interesting and I found for me. This is the hardest part right? and I think this is the most interesting part. It's like. Yeah, ok Ken Kela we understand that Plato ah made up atlantis you know in the fourth century bc but okay, why is it still around. You know, like yeah, how give me the history of how does this trace up to the modern day. Why are we still using this? ok. 02:12.42 kinkella What you find in the time of the renaissance. You know we're talking like the fifteen hundreds now right? We're racing way forward in history in the fifteen hundreds. Not only do you have the renaissance but you have the discovery of America for the europeans right? and. That discovery of the new world is going to be huge in the thinking of european minds and so what you get in in that time period again fifteen hundreds into the sixteen hundreds is. First books by people like Francis Bacon he writes a book called the new atlantis and Thomas Moore writes a book called utopia now these just kind of take the atlantis mythology and wrap them into. The philosophy of utopia sort of this dream perfect community and of course bring America into it. They kind of go ok what if this whole America place that we've just found what if that is Atlantis right? Or let's just use. America as the atlantis allegory you see what I mean we're going to put something real into this fake story. We're going to use this real new continent but they're still kind of philosophizing. They're still going on the sort of Plato side of things. Um. 03:45.80 kinkella I would I would say it's Plato plus America you know and not um, not being incredibly focused on. Oh yes, Atlantis is is right here at this time and and ah like that right, it's still more in that philosophical. Mindset. Although you know I'm sure they're into the hold Lattis thing who isn't and that is ok, whatever it's fifteen fifty and they're doing this fine good luck god bless whatever but it doesn't die. There. As you've heard in previous podcast by me. There's always somebody who picks this up. There's always in doctor who terms a new master who picks up the ring of doom and gloom and becomes the new bad guy right? It just never dies after these guys do their sort of utopian community vibe. This is picked up then by I would say the early guys who trade in mayanism right? We've talked about this before remember brasseur de bo borg and Augustus Le plan Jean remember that from some of the previous podcast those guys. So this is going to click us up into the eighteen hundreds and they're going to use these same ideas of atlantas. Yeah, perfect utopian community but then relate it to the maya and it is a bummer for me as a mayanist to um. 05:21.55 kinkella Know that there is a serious push by people who live who worked in the Maya world to push Atlantis forward I'm like ah damn it in the late eighteen hundreds as we've already talked about on this podcast these 2 guys both add the maya to it. To the atlantis mythology right? and they basically say oh and well the maya or part of this whole Atlantis scheme it either. The idea is the maya where the first culture and then um. The atlanteans took the ideas of the maya and then moved them to Europe or the atlanteans for the first culture and they gave their ideas both to Europe and to the maya doesn't matter whichever way you go? Of course. It's all fake and silly I will watch this I will defend. Breast year to Bo Bor and August is lay plunge on a little bit right? These are guys again, both working in the late eighteen hundreds and and late plunge John doesn't even endy until 198? Well both those guys definitely? ah. 06:28.10 kinkella Spent time talk about some real fake crap right? Some just pseudoscience nothingness in terms of the maya and atlantis whatever they did also spend some time doing some real work right? Whether rather it was translating some maya hieroglyphics. Rather it was doing real work at Maya sites or taking fantastic photographs when photography was new. These guys did create some real data now while their conclusions were like silly and pointless I give them half a pass because again, it's eighteen eighty what do you expect. You know there's they're just kind of throwing it out there and of course both of them sat on the whole atlantas thing way too long. It was kind of a sad aspect to other things they did that were were worthy but you know ah it happens. Yeah, just a a little too new agey. Um, but some real work now that all changes with the next big 1 right? after these guys was Ignatius Donnelly remember Ignatius Donnelly right Ignatius Donnelly is like the Us senator who just happened to also be into all this crap now he didn't do any kind of work right? He has no archeological bona fides right? He adds nothing. It's at Ignatius Donnelly where this story just becomes detached from. 07:59.31 kinkella Everything and just becomes kind of new age doctrine right? We're beyond everything that came before there's no there's no defending this one and so in 1882 ignasius johnelly writes Atlantis the Antediluvian world right. I think that's that's a big moment here for pseudo archeology. He kind of collects all these various writings from these earlier people and just makes 1 big fat book a bullshit right? hundred percent just take the safeties off and go for it. So this is that is the real turning point I think I'm going to vote that I'm going to vote Ignatius Donnelly's um, Atlantis the Antideuan World 1882 as pushing Atlantis into the modern era otherwise known as it's really in a way. It's worst era. So after Ignatius Donnelly he ah influences a bunch of other people. Some people haven't talked about on this podcast yet like Helena um, ah blavatsky with their whole theosophic theosophy movement. Um. She wrote a book called the secret doctrine of course in 1888? Um, let after this James Churchw world where he adds the idea of the lost continent of moo to atlantis it's like the same atlantean idea of it in the pacific that one is really stupid. Ah, but in its. 09:33.21 kinkella Pure stupidity. It's also really fun. So dode James Churchwold we're going to do him soon. The storys great man but he's doing that in like the 1890 s you go even go onward to Edgar Casey who's alair of land right? you alive, you probably heard the namemaker casey but. He and he's doing stuff into easily into the twentieth century and all of these guys that they're they're increasingly kind of just new age. They're pouring in some of that masonic secretive silliness right? Um, that sort of new age religion rosicrucianism. 10:09.41 kinkella It all kind of goes into this stew of silliness where atlantis is still a major portion taken seriously in this extremely let's face it unserious. Ah unscientific world. And at this point once you're the James Churchw walls and the egggar caseys your your next step is like von dinekin with charity to the gods in the 1960 s right? and then of course bringing us today to Graham Hancock so there you have it. Basically atlantis and all of these guys believe in atlantis ah cell Atlantis right? You see how the baton has been passed from Plato who makes it up. And then you have the renaissance to like Francis Bacon Thomas Moore who kind of use it still in a philosophical way. Just talk about utopia and the new world then you get you passed the baton again to the the mayists um bercarda bor borg and August is Latelon John who aren't truly. Archeologists hundred percent it's more mayanism right? This sort of new agey ideas but they still do some good science on the side. Um, and then it becomes just peer b s with ignatius donly that a baton to him and the anti deluian world 1982 and then onward from him to like um. 11:40.59 kinkella Blavatsky James Churchw Wal Dagger Casey all these guys are now adding a bunch of new age religion into this movement and then finally von dinykin who I guess you could say adds aliens to it. Ah, and then Graham Hancock who is just the most recent purveyor of the same old. Story when we return I will give you the location of the lost continent of Atlantis.