00:02.33 kinkella Hello and welcome back to the psudo archeology podcast episode 140 I'm your host Dr Andrew King Kella and we have been discussing flint doubles ah moment in the sun on the Joe Rogan podcast and I've just been waxing philosophic about how great I thought he did. I think I'll just continue with how the show went and kind of some of the points that were made and some of the main themes and then we'll just see what we think from there. So I'd already talked about the the yanagoony ruins in Japan right? that Graham Hancock talked about. Continued on um I thought one of Graham Hancock's weakest moments was he was really trying to push the old tired clovis first thing and flint said the exact same thing I always did I was really happy to hear that he had the same experience. He's like in he's like you know in the 90 s they were already debunking that. That was my experience too right? when I was ah a freshman I think is either a freshman or a sophomore I remember my archaeology professor specifically making fun of the whole clovis. First thing you know, being like oh my god is so over the top in the lame right? But Graham Hanop keeps pushing it because he's. God had kind of try and falsely prove that somehow archaeologists still believe in clovis first and still hate people who say there's no such thing as clovis first it's just what a waste of time and flint did a great job of just being like no, that's really not modern archeology. It hasn't been that way for 30 years right 01:36.63 kinkella Or more honestly. Ah it just but you could see Graham Hancock just pushing it. It's like dude shut up about the clovis first nobody cares right? It's just a It's a non-iss issue trying to make something out of nothing. Ah he Graham Hancock also kept going on about the sahara and that not enough work had been done in the sahara or I think he also talked about like um the Amazon you know all the classic places where you think where it still feels like there's not been a lot of work and flint countered with like no there's actually been quite a bit of work in these places which is true. There's lots of lidar surveys. There's lots of ground surveys. There's there's even projects with excavations. They've done all kinds of stuff does there need to be more work should there be more work. The answer is always yes of course more work is a joy I'll do more work any day you know we we all would but Graham Hancock would push this point about like but what's the percentage has actually been dug up and it's like of course the percentage of the sahara that's actually been dug up. Yeah I'm going to go with not much you don't need to dig up the entire Sahara and and Graham Hancock totally poopoo is like sampling right. Oh well, it only had a 5 % sample it's like yeah but it was that the part that you sample is the part where you know there's a high likelihood of finding stuff I'm not saying that you might not find a little bit something else outside your sampling area. But you're going to find all the major stuff in the sampling area. You know. 03:14.40 kinkella This idea that that he has to cling onto because there is zero zilch no evidence for an advanced civilization at the end of the last ice age. His idea is of course like well we just haven't found it yet. Um, but yeah, flint's point from earlier is well we would have how can we have found. 03:34.60 kinkella Millions of hunter-gatherer artifacts you know and sites and stuff from the period but not 1 tick of an advanced civilization. Yeah exactly um and Graham Hancock of course would constantly say oh it's too. It's premature to count it out. It's not premature. It's very mature to count it out because it's a dopey ass idea. Um that I I 1 thing I really appreciated that flint did here and there is he would shove in almost little commercials. Like he talked about the a I right? The archaeological institute of America he's like hey man if you're into archeology to donate it to the a I I couldn't agree more I love the a I the one of my my favorite ah organizations right? Um Graham Hancock troy did sort of personally attack flynt. What Graham Hancock does is he he attacks and then he whines about how much he's being attacked. It's like this classic ploy watch him. He'll do it again and again he comes on real strong like you'd be like geez Graham right? he comes I'd be like well flint I'm sure that you would agree that you were a horrible person in this right? He comes on real strong. And then he goes you know if you were attacked like I've been attacked. You know it really hurt me right? It's like oh you fricking shyster shut up with your bullshit crocodile tears. Good god get his spine. 05:09.45 kinkella Right? He does this flipflop all the time. It's one of his tricks right? Um, they went on more about Underwater sites. Ah flint did a great job about talking about predictive modeling underwater meaning like no, we're not going to like. Survey the entire ocean we're going to look in the most important places where the the possibilities are greatest. You know, um. 05:43.32 kinkella Another great point that flint made that I'm totally going to steal because I forgot about this was ah that in some areas of the world. There's actually uplifting right? So if. Where sure a lot of the coastline you know is three hundred feet underwater because the last ice age the water was of course up in the glaciers and is now come down and filled up the ocean that much there are areas along the coast where there's actually been uplifting and you do have that area actually on land. And flu was talking about. Yeah in these areas, you'd look and you find all kinds of evidence for hunters and gatherers and again no evidence for advanced civilization. You don't even need to go scuby diving. It's right there you know oh what? a great point I forgot about that you know right? There's uplifted areas and I think he talked about I think in um. Think in coastal canada there's some of those then after this part um, there came just the regular old Graham Hancock old tired stories they hit on the bimini road. Ah. You know stones of Atlantis in Bermoa that thing thought thought flint did really good job again of just listening to it and not just standing up and going what a crock a bullshit and we all know it. You know he didn't do that he was just like yes biminy road right. 07:07.73 kinkella But did a good job of showing that now he didn't believe it but but he kept he kept us cool. Um, that's where I believe I think Graham Ancock literally said oh their laughter is so hurtful or something like that I see I'm ah. Oops I I just laughed I may have hurt him ah and then of course after the stupid stupid bimini road which is one of my probably top 5 of dumbest examples of pseudo archeology again I did that I did it on one of the shows here then of course the Ghanang P Dan Non pyramid like they spent a lot of time on that one um the one that's obviously a natural hill with a little bit archeology on top spent a lot of time talking about you know, ground truthing. Oh um, flint. Another really great point. No matter how much remote sensing you do and that can be lidar that can be ground penetra radar any of that stuff totally true that you got a ground truth that means you've got to dig some means you got to get to the ground and check it out in person. So. The point is if you just show a lot of graphs from ground peneting radar or something that doesn't mean that much right? You need to ground truth and I thought that was a fantastic point I've seen that done personally a lot. Um, then it was it was onwards towards you know the the sort of racist critique. 08:35.97 kinkella That Graham really went over the top. You know oh I can't believe it so maligned you know and and again flint made a really good point. He's like look I never called you a racist personally I never have either right? I I don't think that Graham Hancock is a racist no that's just a silly waste of time argument. The important part is that some of that old stupid stories are of course originally from like Ignatius Doneley's Atlantis the Antediluvian world from 1881 and the backstory idea is pretty racist. You know the idea that indigenous cultures. Didn't make their own stuff that like magical white people came and did it for them because they couldn't do it. It had to be the magical people right? and that's just like it's just foolish and tired and wrong and and that aspect does have a racist. Angle to it. You know? Ah, but of course Graham played it like it like they were calling him a racist constantly and it was like no no, no, no. Ah, it's not about that it it is about some of these ideas. Um really playing short shrift on what indigenous people actually did. They talked about quetzel coadddle which ketzeltddle even me being a mayonist ketzel cootddle can be kind of a complex situation and when they brought that up I was like oh man here he comes but there is an aspect of the ketzelquddle story which is sort of an early spanish madeup thing again. It's like. 10:07.16 kinkella The white guy with a beard from a fara away land lands at the beach and shows you how to be a civilization. It's like no, that's not ketzel cooddle is like the plume serpent right? that? Um, he has aspects of like a god of the wind. It gets very esoteric but ah that that whole like. But ketzel quatddles a white guy from the ocean. That's no, that's a that's a that's not an indigenous story. It's a it's a post contactact stick together 1 um, then of course you're like dude this isn't a full. Time with Graham Hancock if you don't bring up the younger driest comet impact and so of course he brings up that and um, you know what what I would say on this is you have 2 things happening and Graham is very adroit. 11:03.60 kinkella Sort of making it seem like it's all attacking him but it's not you have the younger dryas which is a time period. Where um, we're coming out of the ice age right? It was a little bit colder and then it starts to warm up because we're coming out of the ice age. But then it dunks down again and gets cold for a little bit longer. There's this bump down and that's the younger driest time period right? It's this little like you know several hundred years maybe 1000 years I forget but it's something less something in there and that's true, right? There is a time period called the younger dryas and that's that's real. But then the comet impact thing that's the part that's very pseudo archeological some people argue that really the whole thing is Bs and there was no comment impact at all some people still kind of argue for a little but even those who argue that maybe there was actual. Comet impact at that point the point is that that when the comet hit or comet pieces or whatever it wasn't any big deal. It was like localized you know and I could see that sure. Okay, a comet could hit during the younger dryest comets do hit every so often. You know that's true. But and it's really bad for the people who live right there if it hits your town, but it's not some global disaster the Graham paints it as there's no evidence as ah for it as global disaster. That's just silly so you have to realize when somebody says younger Dryas comet impact theory. It's kind of 2 things. 12:36.80 kinkella Yeah, yo dryas and then the comet thing. Um, then you know then after that things changed a little and flint did this presentation on seeds and seed cultivation and you would think that would be like really boring. You're like oh no seeds but did. For me and actually for Joe Rogan too all that previous stuff. You know the biminy road likequetzel cowaddle as a white guy all all that crap is just so tired and boring. You've heard it a thousand times when flint actually started talking about his seeds. That was awesome like like he was talking about how um seeds change evolutionarily when they become domesticated like wheat and stuff and Joe Joe Rogan was really into it. You know he was really amazed at sort of like the natural world and nature and again I got to give Joe massive credit Joe Rogan you can tell is. Honestly fascinated with the world around them and that's awesome. You know and his fascination comes out for his audience so he was like yeah that's fascinating I thought he really stoked. Ah, flint's little seed presentation there in a really positive manner I thought that was just great. So that was. Probably my favorite part of the whole thing. Ah, honestly it was a little seed cultivation thing just because it was new and different and and creative. But then of course if you're at a high you know where this goes friends. You have to cut my legs out right? And of course they did. 14:10.44 kinkella And then they went onward with this sphinx water erosion hypothesis is why god why right? So and again flint chillin dealing with it. Stupid idea that the sphinx is somehow 10000 years old it's not as old as all the all the rest the stuff. Around it. You know, ah god it's just dumb and and then and then moving onward I think Graham left his most esoteric weird crap for the end so he did like ah. 14:46.86 kinkella Alignments. He started talking about like alignments at procession like certain cultures tracking procession which is the wobble of the earth on its axis which is just nonsensical. Um, and of course again as I as I touched on he moved on to alignments. Yeah, got to do alignments of course oh the pyramids align to the procession. Whatever in this constellation at the time of 10000. It's just just gobbled a good pointless waste of time but when we come back. We're not going to waste our time we're going to wrap it up with flint dibble and his appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast