00:00.93 archpodnet Hello and welcome back to episode 96 of the pseudo archeology podcast and we've been talking about the antikythera mechanism now we've talked about its history. We've talked about what it actually is and what it maps largely the night sky. And so ultimately, what's my take on this here's what I would say what really informs me here is I'm a big horology nerd horology is the study of time. So I like collecting watches I like the idea of a wristwatch I like the different kinds of watches out there I like just looking at how ancient cultures and modern cultures. How we define time like what is time. How do we split up this. Thing that just keeps going by right? It gets very philosophical very fast and when we think of time in that matter and that that defining of time by using it in in our case using a watch. Um, that's how I'm informed about what the antikythera mechanism really is I would look at it as a mechanical watch with lots of complications and what's a complication. Ok that doesn't just mean it's complex. Ah, complication is a specific term in the watch world. It's like a watch add on then and think of a mechanical watch right on on your mechanical watch. You're going to have hours minute hours minutes and seconds sure you're going to have that on your watch but let's say you have a watch with ah with a a day date. You know on it? Yeah, ah where you have the little square on the side that says 13 you know that's a date complication. That's how we would say it in the watch world. So you can have more as you think of mechanical watches now me. The the watch I'm wearing right now the watch I'm wearing right now is actually a digital watch. But every complication I have on it. You could have on a mechanical watch as well. Okay, so so this is something that you can do either by. Modern technology of chips and that kind of stuff or you can do it by old technology of a bunch of gears that are all timed out to do the right thing at the right time right? So my watch has of course it has hours minute hours minutes and seconds but it also has months. 05:33.87 archpodnet It has days. It has the moon phase and it has the tide so on my watch. It has these specific moon phase and tide complications. Why do I have that it's because I enjoy surfing and so when I go surfing I like the ease. Of looking at my watch and going. Ok, it's low tide. Oh and it's also a full moon. So that means the low tide's going to be extra low and it's just an easy convenience device right? that that helps me in my daily life I don't need it. I could look at the charts but looking at the charts is a pain so I just like looking at my wrist for like one second I go ok I think that same ideology can really be used in explaining the antikythera mechanism so the antikythera mechanism is this box. That has a lot of gears in it that has the equivalent of a lot of watch complications right instead of ah tide and seconds and this kind of stuff. It has other things it has planet locations and ah timing for olympic games. Right? It has these different complications all put in there and all timed out using the gears. So I also think that idea of well did the greeks really need the antikythera mechanism. The answer is of course no. Could they have looked at the charts just looked at the charts. Of course they could. But where's the fun in that. Where's the convenience in that right again today I could look at charts that are. More exact than anything that greeks ever had but I would just prefer to just look down at my watch and my watch is not precise. It just kind of shows like like as I'm looking at it right now the entire tide from high tide to low tide and back up again is only divided into 6 so when I'm looking at something I'm just looking at generalities. You know I'm like yeah close enough good enough for me and I think the antikythera mechanism does the same thing. it's it's convenient yes you could tell a greek from 100 bc well why don't you look at the charts and they'd be like dude because I can just crank this device if you turns and I can see that yes the next olympic games are going to be when um, what when ah Leo is high in the sky. You know that's that's. 10:53.11 archpodnet That's all they got to do so. It's it's convenient and also when you have something set up like that where it's all in front of you at once if you're looking at the antikythera mechanism and everything's there. The planets the zodiac chart the the location of the sun and the moon you can you can more quickly come to um I must say this again you can I miss say again you can more quickly come to conclusions about what's going to happen in the next week or None right? Easy conclusions. You don't have to look at 3 different charts. Oh wait, let's look at the chart of Jupiter and then let's look at the chart of Saturn. Let's look at the chart of Venus all at once and try and figure it out none and and and and no you have this thing where you can just see it at a glance and you know what's going on so is it a convenience piece. Sure it is is it something. That's just kind of cool sure it is is it just a bit of a show piece to show what I have and what you don't just like any sort of very expensive watch. Of course it is and that's fine, right? Shocking to no one. The ancient greeks were people just like us right? Just like everyone all people on earth man. We're all the same get out. So the idea of them just kind of wanting this cool thing and if they had enough money to buy None sure now in terms of it being a. Navigational aid for a ship hence it was found in a shipwreck I tend to think it's not ah because in that case you want stuff more specific and in that case. Yeah, maybe you would look at the charts. You know you don't you don't need this this. Sort of showpiece box to crank a few times you you would need other more more specific measurements and that's okay so I do think if I had to choose I think that the antikythera mechanism was owned by one of the passengers on the ship or it was in the hold of the ship. Along with the other art pieces and stuff. That's also a clue right? It's it's not found by itself. It's found with a bunch of other high end art pieces in the same spot. So I think these are being shipped somewhere for sale or for food action just end. Um. These are being shipped somewhere for sale or for a rich person to show off. So yeah I don't think it was an navigational aid I think it was simply a really cool way of ah. 16:17.27 archpodnet Let me say that again. So no I don't think it was a navigational aid I think it was just a really cool way of seeing what's going to happen in the next week or 2 or 3 in the near future in terms of how the night sky. Is going to show itself and this is also something that would be great to have in the equivalent of a university. This would also be something that would be really great to have in a university setting or a library setting. You know, just like we have a globe. Same idea where you can kind of use it as a very visual device to tell you what's going on in this case again in terms of the night sky now after all, this was it made by aliens. Who are much more intelligent than the silly greeks of None bc of course not now in terms of the quotes that always come with this I think I've already talked about you know the world's first computer. It's like well. If you think of a mechanical watch as a computer then yeah, then you could say it's the world's none computer but again I just I think we just go into the weeds in terms of computer definition. It doesn't feel as computery to me. I think I think that orary idea is much closer or a watch with a lot of complications. Um that the another quote that you'll get a lot is mind bogglingly complex. Not really. You know and I don't want to throw the ancient greeks under the bus. This is a very very cool, very very specific and and carefully made mechanism but is it mind bogglingly complex. No, it's not and ah, honestly. How you make one of these is how so much of the ancient world is made simply through careful measurement and patience right? You take the time to get the exact. That's where the math comes in that I talked about before. It's really a testament to how. Good. They were at math and how careful their measurements were so good for them right? But that's not mind bogglingly complex. It's just hey look at us. We were really smart and careful about what we did a none quote I've seen. 21:43.10 archpodnet More complex than a modern day swiss watch now if you ask me I am more of a fan of japanese watches than swiss watches deal with it world but no. The antikythera mechanism is not more complex than a modern day swiss watch remember the antikythera device doesn't have any springs in it. You can't wind it up and and it sort of keeps the time you have to crank it each time you have to crank it around to get to see what you want and honestly, ah, it's It's actually here let me cut that cut at the end. So no, it is not more complex than a modern day swiss watch. Okay, it doesn't have any springs none and foremost a modern day swiss watch you can wind it up and it keeps the time. Right? This doesn't keep any kind of time you got to crank it each time to a specific moment that you want right? So it's it's utterly mechanical There's no um, right? There's no batteries. There's there's no way it. It does not keep its own time whatsoever. So. It is not more complex than a modern day swiss watch it it may have more complications than a modern day swiss watch that's true but actually if you shove a swiss watch full of complications. It can probably beat out the antikythera mechanism. It's ah sorry, but it's it's true. And then another one. It's unbelievably advanced ah sword up now it it is I would say it's advanced along with so much of. Ancient Greek technology and culture. It's advanced. What are you going to do that's great, but it's doable by the greeks of a none bc absolutely and if you want to be really harsh on the greeks of a none bc. Then you start to look close at the gears and you'd be like well the gears are cut I mean they're just regular old straight cut gears and it's okay and and also over time. This thing is going to go off after a while you know my point is it. It's it's not goingnna be the. 26:30.95 archpodnet Finest tell of where Jupiter is if you're going to crank it through 10 years or something it's going to start missing and that that's just because you can only get these bronze gears to be so precise right? And and again I'm not trying to throw the ancient greeks under the bus this is. I love the antikythera mechanism but it is absolutely of the time so it sort of doubles down and shows you that yes, this is an artifact of the time. It is not a hoax and it is not made by aliens right? This is made by greeks of the time. So. You know in the end with this. Why has there been so much kind of did aliens make it is it a hoax or whatever. It's really the unique factor I think that comes in and it's we have to think back to that. It's from a shipwreck and it's because you don't have any others you have this one by itself and it really. Tells you how important shipwreck archeology is ultimately because you're you're seeing that moment in time where this ship sank and people died in that shipwreck too. You know they found human remains too. So this was a very terrorizing. Gary moment for that crew as their ship sank. You know, None leaving for us this unique object that wouldn't have been found any other way. It reminds me of things that. Maybe found in caves as well like certain cave rock art that just because of the nature of the beast because preservation is so good. You have this chance to find this thing that you couldn't find any other way so in the end, let's enjoy. The antikythera mechanism for what it is right? It's this it. It brings us this amazing view into this one little moment in the past that we could not get any other way. This super cool. This unique artifact that was saved for us. Because of a storm twenty one hundred years ago and with that I'll see you guys next time.