00:00.00 archpodnet Go across. 00:01.86 alan Ah, on the edge of our seats and talking about and reflecting on native american perspective on rock art and on the theology the religious metaphors and belief systems of native americans. From a native american viewpoint Johnny ah, give us a glimpse of that if you would. 00:28.71 Johnny valdez Um, sure thing. Yeah there's ah, there's a misconception I think but with everyone that um, we all understand it that we we all know right? So the scientists know the natives know who knows who's right. It isn't about being right? I think what's very interesting is that there are so many there are so many things that need to be discussed about how the rock art that we see in the world. No matter where you are in the world when it's. Pecked into the rock like that and you you see it. There's so much power layered into it. There's this this understanding that I think is universal. Everyone can see that the the world. Has this view of itself. It just happens. It's happening all around us as native people you can see on the rock art that we have taken so much pain space taking time to draw sheep. And quail and Eagles and um elk and deer and antelope and they're all on the rock art and they're they're they're in it but those animals are a regenerating process. They're. 01:59.40 Johnny valdez They're immortal in in this way that that they're immortalized by the artist putting them there. They're venerated there. They're saying this is sacred this is something valuable. This is what we care so much about and to give you an example of how that works is. With all of the native tribes that I've ever met. There's at least one if not many dances that they do that um, honor these animals and you know for our tribe here the the southern utes and and our ah one of our bands in particular. Um, we have a bear dance and that bear dance is a very sacred dance in the way that it's always done. It's it's something anyone can be invited to but we have a brotherhood with the bear There's all these stories that we have about about bears. The bear stories are are incredible. And we our particular band don't hunt bears and the reason that we don't is because we see them as our brothers our sisters our mothers our fathers and we integrate our life around those bears that will take one if we had to. We're required to do it. They were attacking or something had happened to 1 but otherwise we try to live in harmony with the bear and there's that spirituality in that harmony and it's all part of a ah circle of life. Um, that. 03:32.61 Johnny valdez Operation that is so intentional that you know these animals if one is harvested ever or 1 passes away. It is regenerated into the world. It goes back into the ground and and creates the flowers of the grass that feeds another animal or or the. You know the byproducts are eaten by spiders or other animals to to regenerate the world and that cosmology of understanding happens everywhere I know that the pueblos they they come up and and have a deer dance. Ah, they come to the the utes to to get deer. They they ask for special permits to come here because they don't have as many there they come here and get them and there there's an honoring ceremony they come and ask the council for for the right to come and hunt and and they do and they they take these. Little horns back with them and and they use them in their ceremonies and they honour them and they they give out the food to anyone who comes to visit during those very special dances and they are part of what helps regenerate those animals by honouring them. Are Regenerated. They are brought back to life. They they become immortal. They are a part of the cycle of life. They are a part of the medicine wheel they are part of the 7 generations that we look back to and that we look forward to as well. So it's. 05:06.36 Johnny valdez Really an interesting kinship that is made between the natives and the spirit world that there are these this underworld that might take us for a time that we have to understand. But then we're brought to The. General world of living in this circular positive way and then we're taken up into the spirit world as as our spirit goes away and is regenerated and brought back into the world again by the powerful thoughts and and the love and honor that's. UnkS been provided by um, all of these people who who put that honor into their rock art into their honoring of the animals and how how powerful those those animals really are in our understanding of life that they are life giving. And that they are so important to us. 06:18.51 Johnny valdez Um, guys can you hear me. 06:21.49 archpodnet Allen yeah I can hear you Jeny allen may have dropped for a second allen. 06:25.16 Johnny valdez Um, okay. 06:31.42 Johnny valdez Um, okay. 06:36.47 archpodnet Let's just give him a second here. 06:37.18 Johnny valdez Um, yeah, he might be on delay or something. 06:45.68 archpodnet This would be a long delay if he's really having troubles surprised to be on Anyway, if he's really having troubles. He'd be calling me some shortly? um. 06:48.32 Johnny valdez Um, yeah. 06:54.48 Johnny valdez Okay, yeah, because we're we're down the last ten minutes or so or 5 minutes whatever 07:04.62 archpodnet All right, you're recording again. So go ahead and hit your last piece here. 08:07.89 Johnny valdez Well, thanks Alan I think that's so a really great segue into something that we we do need to talk about and that is just simply that you know native people for so long and and all the people that I've really ever met. Um. Really have a standoffish kind of view of a lot of these kinds of discussions. You know normally they would sit around any of my relatives or friends would sit around at a campfire and tell you this and it doesn't matter what color your skin is they would go into detail and they'd probably have better and funnier and. And crazier stories than I do and and that's good because they're all wonderful people and and native people are very wonderful that way but they don't come on very many podcasts or or don't say much unless it's very pointed or very direct. To to a certain point. Um, they don't want to talk about their cosmology or any of that in general because and I think the reason is because most times when they've had something to say people have used it against them negatively and. And you can't blame them for for feeling that way about some of it. Um, but I think what is is important is that people such as myself and others who've who've had to live in in kind of both worlds. 09:33.24 Johnny valdez Reach out and and talk in general about these things you know I'm I'm not trying to be any kind of professional expert I simply do have some expertise and would like to pass that along where I can to to explain the differences in In. Philosophies and differences and perspectives that people have um, the vision of of life can be very difficult if you can't see each other come to a place where you can really. 09:59.43 alan Yeah, okay, Johnny that was very ah, inspirational and and interesting. Um I think in closing um I would I would ask you to ah perhaps indicate what the? um. 10:08.58 Johnny valdez Talk directly to each other and that sometimes is is a serious problem I know any time that I'm trying to work with a tribe on a deal or a treaty or something that they're working on I always try and tell them you know you need to come to the table to have some of this conversation. 10:18.27 alan But the key takeaway is from from our time together. We've done 2 podcasts now and tried to at least introduce the native american perspective on I'd say a thing called cosmology or worldview and also how that might. 10:28.43 Johnny valdez Because if you're not at the table you're for lunch as they come and they try to pick things away from you. They want to take your perspective. They want to take your your views and and try to mold them into whatever they think is valuable or important and. 10:37.84 alan Relate to to the way in which they see the world and how they sort of interact with the environment. what what is what is the 1 compelling communication that you'd like to introduce or persuade or. 10:48.10 Johnny valdez The more that the tribal leaders come forward and and speak of of their history and their their spirit and their story. Um, the the better it is for everyone and there's a lot of good tribal leaders doing that these days and they're much appreciated. 10:56.62 alan Communicate effectively to our audience. Go ahead. Johnny. 11:06.44 Johnny valdez They're They're not hiding. Um you just kind of have to reach out to Them. You have to reach out there and ask them for their perspective and and approach them in a good way and let them know why you're doing it. Why you want to why you want to know about their medicine processes their vision quests ask them. Um, positively and if they can they will. They're They're really wonderful and they have very funny stories. They're They're great characters. Um the laughter and love and the and the spirit that native people have is just Unmatched. It really is. 13:16.84 Johnny valdez Thank you so much I appreciate it. 14:41.99 alan Thank you Johnny I really appreciate those reflections and um I would echo that to my colleagues just one short sound bite and will will close. Um, it seems to me in this chapter of my life. What I've noticed is. Ah, a need a high priority to embrace the native american viewpoint in anything that I do be it study of rock art. The conduct conduct of archaeological studies and um even when it comes to. Festivals and art. There seems to be a ah disconnect unless we embrace and involve the native viewpoint and the key natives as participants and key stakeholders in these conversations and what I get from. From Johnny is that's becoming much more necessary and critically important and that they wish to come to the table in an open honest and Goodwill fashion to share their vision. Their perspective. And do the best that we can to negotiate successful relationships and with that I think we'll close see you again in the flip flop gang and thanks for tuning in god bless.