00:01.74 Alan Hello out there in archeology podcast land this is your host Dr Allen garfinkel for your rock art podcast episode 77 wow we're gonna hear from Noel who's a professor and a remarkable researcher. Who does work in South East asia and he in fact, does specialize in rockard and he he graced our presence just a few months ago and in fact, the reason I've asked him back is he wants to promote and publicize and talk about. Ah, quite a remarkable platform that he's going to be initiating. It'll be an online course in World Rock art is that right? Noel do I have you do I have it right. 00:50.53 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, well almost I am I'm not a professor. Um I don't teach I Ah technically my my designation is the senior specialist in archaeology. 00:54.60 Alan Okay. 01:04.67 Alan Okay. 01:06.57 Noel Hidalgo Tan Which is a very long and roundabout way of of saying Well yeah, everything that has to do with archaeology is under my purview in my organization. Um, and the organization. Well so the last time I was talking to you I had hinted at the idea that I was going to. 01:11.88 Alan Yes, yes. 01:25.73 Noel Hidalgo Tan Um, launch a course on rock art. An online course which is why I'm here today to to tell you and tell everyone about it. Um, so I yeah we we. 01:37.57 Alan And I think you I think you have a few participants. Don't you signed up a few people that oh my word Wow But that's that. 01:45.43 Noel Hidalgo Tan We just crossed a hundred participants yesterday I'm hoping to get a lot more because we can. We can support up to a thousand so I'd like to. 01:56.91 Alan Ah, but but that but that believe believe you me that's that's that's amazing for it for an initial course that hasn't been offered to have a hundred people online to to listen to about World Rock art noel that is absolutely fabulous. 02:08.84 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, so I'm I'm quite excited and I'm quite happy with the the stuff that we're putting out together. So the the course is called rock art and Southeast Asia in the world and I'll need to back up a bit because first of all I I work for the. Southeast asian ministers of education regional center for archaeology and finance arts. So it's a mouthful we call ourselves spafa we we are regionally we were known as spffa for short, that's that's also another story but well. 02:31.97 Alan And that's quite quite quite a mouthful I would say. 02:45.61 Noel Hidalgo Tan But we first started out we were called the special project in archeology and finance so is spafa and then a few years later will be got upgraded into a center so now with original center. But then the name's spffa stuck and it's easy to say so we've been spafa for 50 years that's that's that's where we are so. 02:59.92 Alan Wonderful. 03:05.22 Noel Hidalgo Tan Um, we've been. You know we've been affected by covid like many people we used to. We used to have international meetings travel around organized workshops for archaeologists and other professionals and cultural heritage in the region because of covid we couldn't do any of that. And so last year what said last year already yeah last year we changed one of our our programs we had planned to do a a intensive field course on bones conservation in Thailand two years ago 03:39.52 Alan Here. 03:41.55 Noel Hidalgo Tan We couldn't do it because of covid so last year we we changed that field course into an online course which was I think pretty pretty successful. We. We had a bunch of regional experts divide out topics and then we we. Had these this two month course where people could learn about different aspects of bone conservation in Southeast Asia that 04:03.90 Alan Now tell tell tell me how tell me how that was done when you when you say it's an online course is is it video is it is it. Zoom is it is it audio how does that how does that work. 04:15.39 Noel Hidalgo Tan Oh ah, so we have we have like say six weeks of of lectures. Um, it's designed to be asynchronous so you know big being being the audience being as wide as it is. Decided that we didn't want to have live lectures because they would tie everybody down into specific times and places so at the start of every week you would launch we would have these pre-recorded videos pre-recorded lectures. Um. They would. They would go live say on Monday and then the participants could follow them at their own time and then each lecture was accompanied by supplementary readings. People could read them or not read them if they if they wish we we did find that most people read them surprisingly. Um. 04:52.70 Alan Ah. 05:10.90 Noel Hidalgo Tan And then and then a short quiz to to just test that you you know actually were listening to the lectures and so we found that Well we asked we asked our lecturers to keep them short because this the internet age. 05:17.14 Alan Um, and how and how long was each lecture. Okay, yes, so okay, so little modules got it. 05:28.46 Noel Hidalgo Tan So we we averaged around 20 to 30 minute lectures um yeah and and I think that that worked really well because um I think it was really hard for our lectures to to conduct. You know we were used giving lectures for like 1 hour long 05:45.36 Alan Ah, oh sure. 05:47.28 Noel Hidalgo Tan And then I was telling everyone to give Ted talks. Basically it was a challenge but I think everyone stepped up to it really well and it was a good. It was good training for everyone. You know everyone is starting to get online and telling me to to get used to the to the format to the medium as well. 06:04.93 Alan Um. 06:06.72 Noel Hidalgo Tan Um, and and and the participants responded really well to it because they could follow it their own time. A lot of them a lot of them would like do the like just during the lunch break or do one in the evening and they could they could space it out throughout the week 06:23.96 Alan Then they can access it at their convenience. 06:26.10 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yes, which which was which is a really important we we built that in at the very beginning we we knew we wanted to build a course where participants could access it at their own time. The the only drawback that we had from this was that. 06:38.72 Alan Got it up. 06:43.45 Noel Hidalgo Tan At the end a lot of some of our participants said. Well we wish we had we had time to interact with the lectures which we you know because of the nature of the of the pre-recorded courses we we couldn't build it to so so well. We've we've taken a lot of the positives from the last course into this into this rocket course too. So we have ah we have even we've we've cremed in even more lectures from the last time last the last time we had like 12 for the bones course for the southeast asian course the the rocka course we have like 21 now. Ah. 07:13.58 Alan Um, ah to 21 lectures wow 07:19.23 Noel Hidalgo Tan Which is quite pushing it. 21 lectures. We're gonna we're gonna be focusing on different parts of the world in for each week and then also focusing on 1 specific region in Southeast asia because we do want to promote southeast asian. Ah, rock art southeast asian archaeology as ah as a region and also to to to let let people know that hey so you know you you have this survey of of rock art around the world but we do want to emphasize that southeast asia which is not a ah region that you traditionally think about in terms of rock artt that. Is an area rich in raw art. 07:59.92 Alan Fantastic. So it's going to showcase the Southeast Asian Rock guard but also have a quite a diversity of other areas I guess geographies am I correct. 08:11.37 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, so we have we have. Ah yes, we have essentially every every part of the world covered so we have ah we have lectures from the Americas we have from Europe Africa greater asia oceania. And southeast asia so that that you know you you do get a a world ah worldwindur of the world world rock art team. 08:39.76 Alan That's that's fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. What what made you think of doing this online or developing I don't think this has been done before has it. 08:49.64 Noel Hidalgo Tan No I don't think so too I mean I mean I'm I'm sure there are and I think I've seen a few I mean I definitely took an undergraduate course in world rock art but it's always given by you know one person so this is the this is the first time. Yeah, it's a live lecture. 09:05.61 Alan It's a live lecture. 09:08.27 Noel Hidalgo Tan This is the first time that you'll have a world rock art course where all the all the lecturers. All the instructors are the experts from that part part of the world. So. It's like you know you you get to? you're going to hear about the the. Ah, paleolithic rock art of Europe from ah Jean Michel Chaist who is the who was the director of the french prehistoric organization the national prehiory center and who was in you know if you go to to lascau and shawei his face is all over the space. We have the. 09:40.74 Alan Um, fabulous. Absolutely fabulous right? Tell tell tell people for that for our people that that may not know um and I know a tiny bit because I happen to have. 09:43.70 Noel Hidalgo Tan The director of the Altamira museum. Um, we have um, who else we have. 09:59.73 Alan Attended and in New Mexico the international federation of rock art organizations Efrau and I met some of the alammira people that were working on that. So ah, if you have a ah thumbnail sketch to just tell people about what what happened and what's being done. And Alamira right now. They I understand that they've they've replicated the cave and now it's open for visitation vis-a-vis the replica am I correct. 10:27.61 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, in fact I was an auto mirror three years ago um and it's it's wonderful I mean we we went to the we went to autoamira we went to lasau and chauve and and there they dave. 10:32.37 Alan Um, oh really. 10:42.28 Alan Oh my word. 10:46.69 Noel Hidalgo Tan Built these because you can't go into the actual caves. Um, because because it disrupts the the natural but the replicas are really one to 1 replicas in in some some some moments. You actually forget that you're in a building and you you. 10:51.31 Alan Um, Replicas right. 11:06.47 Noel Hidalgo Tan Ah, you feel like you're in actual an actual cave. It's it's amazing like that's that's how you do a replica. 11:09.38 Alan Um, and they've replicated these sort of this. So. It's the sat is right? So It's the sounds. It's the sense. It's the it's the the feeling the temperature the the whole look of the cave the lights. The everything is is is just ah, it's a doppelganger for The. The actual cave itself. 11:27.83 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, you enter you enter the you enter the the doors the doors close behind you and then and then you're just in pitch darkness and then the the you know the lights do do the magic for you And in fact, the the magic doesn't lift like. 11:36.86 Alan Wow something. 11:46.44 Noel Hidalgo Tan For the entire time that you're in the building you don't you don't feel as if you're in a building and and I remember we were in one of the one of the the northern speeds. So Altimer is just one one. Ah, one side of the of the paleolithic art of. 11:52.72 Alan Well, that's amazing. 12:06.63 Alan Oh. 12:06.29 Noel Hidalgo Tan Because they've added more into the unesal list but we were in 1 site a cane where we had the whole site to ourselves the whole the whole building to ourselves so we were exploring all the all the different case going through the walkways. But you only you only realize that it's it's It's not real when when we were leaving the building and then they turned on all the lights and then you just saw you know you saw the the the screens you saw you saw you saw the fiberglass cave settings and you saw the the frames and the outside of the thing things that you don't see. 12:43.72 Alan Um, what was the most impressive thing thing thing that you went through when you when you traveled through altammiro or lascau or chave what and these were all of course replicas I presume do they did they have replicas for all 3 12:43.56 Noel Hidalgo Tan When you're in the in the the display and then and then you rise oh wait a minute. 12:59.13 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yes, they have replicates for all free. So what's really What's really impressive is that ah and you know they they always touch on this in the books but you don't you don't really understand it until you see it. They they talk about how the painters use the contours of the rock to emphasize dimensionality. So like especially the bison of I automat around the the large and they muscular and you don't see that until you see the real thing or least Replica did use the curvature of the rock. 13:29.15 Alan Um, right? I mean and so when you say see the real thing. It's the dimensions and the morphology and the actual being there physically that I must I must touch must Touch. You physiologically to sort of see that in. Sense it correct. 13:47.49 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, and then and then and then because that you know youre usually read this and in books and and books are inherently 2 dimensional right? and you don't you don't get it until you. You've seen you've seen a 3 dimensionional depiction of the of the rock cut and and they're like oh okay I get it now. 13:55.97 Alan Right. 14:07.22 Noel Hidalgo Tan Like like how the how the the bison seems to move when you walk around the boulder. 14:13.77 Alan And how and how just did they do something with the flickering light. So like a fire or some sort of a a torch when one held a torch there was there was suggestions that it almost looks like there's movement. Did they. 14:26.10 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, they did so I remember in yeah in Shawve they they had the the panel with the the lion I I believe and yes, they they. 14:37.54 Alan Yeah, the lion penal. Ah. 14:41.47 Noel Hidalgo Tan They they have I think they have it. They have it going on every every 15 minutes or so but every 15 minutes the the lights will will dim and then you will you know because you can control the the lighting it simulates firelight and you get to see how how the panel would have looked like. 14:45.77 Alan Ah. 14:59.65 Alan Fantastic, how wonderful that is well let's hold that thought while we hold our torch and pick it up on the next segment see you shortly gang on the Flipflop. 15:00.43 Noel Hidalgo Tan In complete darkness in in when you're holding a torch.