00:00.18 Alan Low out there in archaeology podcast land. We're up to the second segment of rock art 77 episode 77 with ah Noel Hidoggo Tan who is ah from southeast Asia he's coming in. From that part of the universe and in turn we're interviewing him and talking about a worldwide rock art class that's going to be developed and available for you to participate in Noel you there. 00:35.14 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yep I beer. 00:36.66 Alan So A rock art class Worldwide. Can you give us sort of an inventory of you said there's about 20 or 21 different purveyors of rock art geographically can you give us a rundown of of some of the. Luminaries and and part of the geographies of where you've gotten people. 01:00.55 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, in fact, before before we start as call I was I was doing some of the the work on the back end with ah with this course because I um you know was setting up the course right now as we speak. Um, so let's say we have from. From Europe we have the rock art of Automatmira the paleolithic rock art of of Europe um, let's see from the us we have ah from Europe we have Jean Michelle janess 01:29.69 Alan The who do we? who do we? who do we have from Europe again. 01:39.39 Noel Hidalgo Tan And pila fattas George Nash Aaron Mazel who will be talking ah the the last 2 willll be talking about. Um, when the last on eraron's gonna be talking about the rock out of England Of Northern England 01:51.75 Alan England Okay Northern England. Okay, so so some of these things are very geographically specific. They're not. They're not broad treatments but they're they're ah they're almost microscopic in the sense that they're narrow casting on their on their research interests. 02:08.93 Noel Hidalgo Tan Um, yeah, yeah, um in. 02:09.36 Alan Am I correct or not. And so and so you're you're Kind. You're kind of getting ah you know a showcase or a deep dive into the mysteries of someone's research aren't you. 02:22.37 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, kind of is we we? um, ah to give you some more examples we have we have Salli my professor salliia ikram she's Goingnna talk a us about Egyptian Rocket which is you never hear about egyptian rocket um, um. 02:36.64 Alan Egyptian record. Never never. 02:42.44 Noel Hidalgo Tan Maria Sebel from Argentina is going to talk about the the rock out of the Southern Andes so you know not just the andes but the Southern Andes um and then from from um from southeast Asia we have. 02:50.46 Alan Fantastic Southern Andy is exactly. 03:02.10 Noel Hidalgo Tan We have talks about the rock out of the Philippines the rock out of East Timor the rock out of pendin to Malaysia the rock out of Thailand we have talks about the rock out of Southern China rock out of India. Um. Rock out of Oceania it is. It is a wide survey and they do vary in terms of of granularity. But I think I think taken as a whole you do get a a nice sense of which is why we werent intended. Yeah. 03:20.21 Alan Well amazing. It is. 03:30.75 Alan Get a flavor. So do you have old what you still you have old world and New World Rock art I presume um and the new world rock art is represented and any any other geographies. Besides the one that you mentioned. 03:35.20 Noel Hidalgo Tan You get a sense of of everything out there. 03:41.59 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yep. 03:49.78 Noel Hidalgo Tan Ah, no, not that I can think of we have South America yes 03:54.70 Alan You have anything from north okay, but you have South America correct yes Yes, so so interesting. Interesting, very interesting and and who's who's in North America who's gonna. 04:05.65 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, so we have one from North America and 1 from South America ah Jenny Lubsa is going to talk about the rock out of Southeastern United States 04:13.91 Alan Represent. 04:19.30 Alan Okay, and what part of the us is he going to chat about Georgia and and you know what I know nothing about that absolutely haven't even didn't even really didn't even realize that there's rock art in Georgia. 04:23.75 Noel Hidalgo Tan Ah, in the region of Georgia and surrounding states. Yeah, ah you and me both. 04:38.64 Alan Of all places you know I mean I thought you're going to see the american southwest the great basin you know Peco Tradition in South you know something that I knew something about never heard a a word about Georgia that's ah, awesome. Awesome. So. 04:48.94 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, it's a great thing about Thiscourse I think there is literally something you will come away letting something for even if you know some a little bit about rock art in your part of the world I don't think you know about rock art about you know these parts of the world too. 04:59.60 Alan Um, yeah. No. No I mean that's that's fabulous. Absolutely fabulous I Love your concept. It's ah oh yes, Yes, yes, ah. 05:07.69 Noel Hidalgo Tan Oh of course I forget we have the rock out of Australia because these are you know I studied in Australia and and we have really good stuff from from Australia to how to I I would be remiss by not mentioning that. 05:20.57 Alan Is there. It's not going to be represented by you or someone else. 05:25.28 Noel Hidalgo Tan No I have Paul Tason who is my my former supervisor and Joe Mcdonald so someone from the East Coast and so on from the west coast too. 05:28.85 Alan oh yes yes oh yeah oh Joe of course. Yeah yes, and the West Coast so yep I met Joe I think a couple of times she I know she teaches. Ah, you know both in Australia but also. At the University Of California Berkeley I believe and 1 of them. My board members from the California Rock Art Foundation did her ph d on rock art. Her name is Donna Gillette she's been very busy with the American Rock art research association but her research. Is throughout California mainly on the coastal areas and it's about what she calls pc es or these I don't even know what it stands for but it's the it's these cupule Boulder petrolyphs that are embedded with the. These rather unusual convex and concave elements to them and they're found ah only in certain lihologies like in serpentine or its steotite boulders amazing and they're literally they're literally from the northern edge of California. 06:38.36 Noel Hidalgo Tan Oh. 06:45.78 Alan Little tipping over into Oregon all the way down into just the northern tip of the Baja Peninsula and they ah they mainly occur along the coast and they appear to be very very very ancient. There's ah you know, just discussions that they ah came in with what what they call the. Hocan people. The the people that were some of the the first in migration or realm you know realm into California but so that was ah her her dissertation research and no no one had really done any work on this class of rock art sites. So she pioneered some certainly interesting work. Edit yeah go ahead. 07:25.56 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yeah, so that's that's really interesting because ah you know as a region and I consider myself ah a regionalist particular to Southeast Asia so I I always thought of myself as oh yeah, I've I've had a really good. Sense of the diversity of of rock art at least at least in Southeast Asia but in putting this course together and then you realize oh actually no I know nothing about the diversity of rock art because that it's a lot more diverse than I thought and which is really humbling in a way and and I'm i'm. 07:47.85 Alan Um, right. 07:56.76 Alan Um, right right? you last like yes yes, and and I think it's it's almost as though. 08:03.82 Noel Hidalgo Tan I'm glad to be able to to convey that in a course. 08:14.63 Alan You know I say I've said this before but when you think about that you know something about a subject like For instance I had been studying the ah prehistory the anthropology the archeology of Eastern California for most of my adult life. Let's say at least Fort. 40 years how's done and then I um meet up with a group of native americans and publish a book on the anthropology ethnology rock art basketry language of these native people including their sacred narrative. And I learned more in 4 years than I learned in forty years just because you're you're working with the people themselves have you run across anything like that. 08:58.14 Noel Hidalgo Tan Now. 09:03.83 Noel Hidalgo Tan Ah, yeah, just by putting this course together I've I've learned so much about ah rock art that that's challenging. You know it's not challenging but reminding me about that I I there is much more to know. 09:13.37 Alan It challenges you. 09:21.27 Noel Hidalgo Tan Then Beyond my own framework. 09:24.68 Alan What's the what's the what's the the sort of the greatest takeaway that you have from from started to do this yourself. Besides the diversity of rock art and diversity of sort of rock art specializations. What? What's the thread that ties us together. If anything when we think of rock art scholars. Why do why? do people get get enmeshed and obsessed with rock art. 09:50.50 Noel Hidalgo Tan Upstairs is a good word I I I don't know if you notice is too but there is something about rock artt that that is that is so accessible that it that it ah it almost turns people crazy. Forocca right? that then you know it it really really sparks imagination and it really ah gets people. Yeah, you know I we. 10:08.57 Alan Ah, it always turns people crazy. Okay. 10:18.69 Alan Yes, it does. 10:26.26 Noel Hidalgo Tan As an academic as academics. We are only just 1 kind of rock art enthusiasts. There are many other. There are many other kinds of rock artt enthusiasts are some certainly more more unusual than than us academic types. 10:27.21 Alan Ah, ah yes. 10:42.56 Alan Oh yeah, there is. There's those that are artists of course right? The artist side that that appreciates it. There's people that are obsessed with the acoustics of rock art and the sounds Yes, there's tourists. Yes. 10:48.59 Noel Hidalgo Tan Um, yeah. 10:55.52 Noel Hidalgo Tan And then the the tourists the the people want to go to every rock outside out there. 11:02.46 Alan Right? right? They want to they want to check off all the boxes. There's um, you know the avocationalists that just loves the aura and the cultural associations of rock art. The California Rock Art Foundation just did 4 trips cultural tours to the great mural rock art. Baja California believe it or not and and they were all filled I guess it was all post covid everybody wanted to go there but to get there and talk about they wanted to go. It has to be an adventure so we went to this this area sierra day San Francisco where the there's no roads of course and the trails that are there are only manageable on the backs of mules and then on the backs of mules then your gear is moved on Burrows. And you have the vakeros that help you to navigate and those that are experts in this area to keep you safe and on the trail and not down the drainage in the ah The Grand Canyon of Mexico so you can imagine this is where we have those. Ah. Murals that are larger than life. Some of the largest prehistoric paintings in the world. They call the great mural rock art of Baja California so but the reason I briefed I bring that up is when the people came back. They told me they were very you know enamored. With the rock art certainly and the vistas but 1 of their favorite things about the whole tour was the culture of the people who were associated with that part of the world. It was such a a challenging environment such a deficient environment and so natural. And unimpaired that there was some sort of a flavor or a connection with the local ecology and the local people that just permeated their whole experience and they found that to be 1 of the more wondrous aspects of participating. And rock art adventures I think you understand what I'm saying. 13:18.19 Noel Hidalgo Tan Um, yeah, certainly there's a large degree of enthusiasm. 13:24.40 Alan Because many people. Yeah they they go there for the adventure. The epic quality. The place that they get to see the the circumstances the ecology of land forms the vistas the the adventure. That's what I was searching for the adventure. So. That's our second segment. Let's ah on on the third go around. Let's ah, let's move a little closer to the dealing with some of the details of this ah of the of the course and. What 1 might want to know about it and how to access it see in the flip-flop gang. 14:12.23 Noel Hidalgo Tan Yep.