00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the rock art podcast episode 86 and I'm interviewing Dr Alan Garfinkel on his own show and I'm not the only None to interview him because well I'm not really interview but you were featured in several segments of the skin watcher. Sorry. In several segments of the skinwaler ranch series and that's on Tv you can just type in Skinwalker Ranch and you'll find all kinds of stuff about it including the Tv series and they they didn't bring you back a none time for a recent episode but they used some footage that they didn't use before why don't we talk about none. What. Let's remind our listeners. What Skinwalker Ranch is and where it is and then we'll talk about the episode that was out recently. 00:39.84 Alan So Skinwalker Ranch is a ranch in Utah and it's a piece of ground that has um, a lot of strange and mysterious activities associated with it and it's been a show. On the history channel where they have a bevy of scientists working around the clock throughout each season to try to deconstruct and analyze and figure out what is the basis for some of their mysterious circumstances and identities. 01:16.29 archpodnet Um, ah. 01:18.40 Alan It certainly is ah you know it's a it's the second most popular show on the history channel. It gets 2000000 views each week that it's on the they brought me they brought me back. Um, briefly for this last 01:30.20 archpodnet That's crazy. 01:36.97 Alan Show. It's ah season None episode None and the reason they brought me back was to sort of hear from me a reification or a support of some of the things they've discovered. Well recently they ran a number of digital. Ah you know efforts. To document the landscape sort of landscape archaeology if you will and they did this with drones and so the drones went all over the entire ranch and then they put together a 3 hree-dimensional model of. 02:04.28 archpodnet Um, ah. 02:15.68 Alan Terrain the landforms and all the various elements of the ranch. So when they did that they did a beautiful job and they could see all the different elements and landforms that are represented at the ranch and it looked very well done. But. An unusual phenomenon occurred in that there were digital portrayals of what looked like tunnels or corridors that occurred superficially over the landscape and into the sky and I saw those on television. And 1 of those was actually placed specifically at a site that I visited and talked about earlier. It's a um, it's a site of a geoglyph. It's on a prominent mesa top. Not that large. 03:08.70 archpodnet Um, okay. 03:11.44 Alan But it has a serpentining set of the salt rocks that are set up as what we call a geoglyph a rock alignment or a serpentine rock alignment and that's and that sits right in the center of the Mesa now when you look. 03:23.81 archpodnet Brett. 03:31.37 Alan I Would think it's to the South You find several images of rock art. Um, one is a serpent serpentining spiral or a serpent another is some sort of Ah. Cross some sort of a you know at adorned adorned cross encircled cross that is sometimes you know called a number a number of different ways to examine it one Rock has a hole in it as Well. Looks like it's drilled and when you turn around. 03:54.12 archpodnet Um, yeah. 04:08.57 Alan And look at the landscape it looks as though there's 2 serpents set up on the horizon facing each other and they're made of the salt. They're basalt flows Now these are just natural Phenomenon. They're part of the lava flow but often. Through what they call Paradolia You know how people's minds can see things that aren't really there. Well these are are rather transparent sort of animal figures that are there aligned on the horizon so you got all that stuff going on right at that. That area. Well they asked me about you know what? I thought about this particular spot and I said well this is obviously an area of considerable power and religious significance. Obviously a ah sacred site. 05:01.57 archpodnet Ah. 05:05.86 Alan Religiously important site but None that that often a a shaman or a religious functionary a indian doctor would have put images on the rock and probably fashioned that geoglyph or that rock alignment. And this is typically known as a portal this is ah a particular location where they may have done vision quests or it was found that the rocks were alive because they are alive and sentient. Basically you know they have. Have vitality and can communicate to someone who is you know privy to that sort of world and so this is a connection between what might say is the sky world or the celestial kingdom the world of the divine and the deities etc. The power. And None where one can almost commune with the ah world of the supernatural and so they brought me on to say those things and talk about portals or connections and that you know further reified or supported. 06:06.49 archpodnet Um, okay. 06:19.37 Alan Their particular perspective that something's going on there at those particular locations so that was None thing that was interesting. The other thing that was interesting is they had found that when they study those areas and they electronically examined them. It appears that their instruments ah produce a particular wavelength. It's like it's communicating with them and producing I believe it's six point One Megawatts I think that's what it is and this six point one Megawatts is in fact the same frequency that they have found is related to or at the same way as white quartz white quartz which is used as a pecking stone to Peck and produce petrolyphs. And also used as a sacred stone the white stone and it's placed in the crevices of the rock guard and it's used as stones which are part of figures including serpents. Um that are used in the mojave desert and elsewhere to produce figures. 07:17.77 archpodnet Um. 07:37.90 Alan On the landscape so part of the reason that they they may be reading this particular frequency with their equipment is this white quartz has what's called Pisa Pisio electricity meaning it's It's a stone that can ah produce internally fire when it's banged against None another it produces a red glow inside of it and I think this white quartz is part of what is used in some of the radios and. 08:03.00 archpodnet Right. 08:15.61 Alan And some of the electronic equipment. So I'm wondering if if that can have anything to do with some of their measurements and some of the things that they've discovered I don't know but it is a mysterious place. It is an interesting, an interesting place and and I think that my anthropological archeological. 08:24.60 archpodnet I Don't know Yeah, that's crazy. Um. 08:34.95 Alan You know, sort of perspective certainly was aligned or supported some of their discoveries of the ah you know the identification of specific sites as having something powerful something as an emanation something. 08:51.25 archpodnet Um, ah. 08:53.64 Alan Ah, mysterious and something that perhaps only those who can sort of connect with some of these mysterious other-worldly entities and and and Phenomenon would be able to connect with them. Shaman's as an example shamanism ah connects with some of these ethereal planes and when you've studied shamans One of the characteristics worldwide is that shamans will use various altered states of consciousness or do this either with The. Ah, vision Quest or using ah an ethno-potanical or just taking some sort of um you know Tobacco Native tobacco and then going into a trance almost and people view that as death and when in that trance. 09:37.43 archpodnet Um, ah. 09:49.83 Alan Seems to be the possibility of the individual leaving their body and going up to the heavens Anyways, so that's another sort of level of understanding and that's a phenomenon and a a description that parallels the world. 09:55.80 archpodnet Wow. 10:08.71 Alan Of Shamans transc culturaltly if you know and anywhere throughout the world where you have these people who are mystics or shamans or those that really understand a connection of the natural world with the supernatural or the world of. 10:11.99 archpodnet Ah. 10:26.54 Alan Of some sort of a creator. Um, then they are able to do this. They do do some things that are rather scientifically impossible. How's that or at least scientifically not not understood. 10:35.34 archpodnet Um, yeah. Right? So What did the recent I mean know that's a lot So What did the recent episode have you have you talking about. 10:44.41 Alan I Hope I I hope I would hope had me talking about the rock guard talking about the talking about the portals talking about the conduits and the shamanism and what those representations on the rock and on the landscape. 10:57.54 archpodnet Um. 11:04.70 Alan Mean and represent and what the Indians tell us they mean and represent is they are codified prayers. They are prayers and stories. Ah that are meant to be immortal forever. They're forever written on the rocks. 11:05.44 archpodnet Okay. 11:19.19 archpodnet Um, yeah, okay. 11:22.83 Alan When you talk to a mojave indian ah from from the Colorado he or she will tell you that their cosmology. Their religious theology is written on the landscape. In other words, everything they know about the world can be reconstructed. By looking at the land forms and looking at the ways in which they have ah memorialized their various deities and stories on the land. So have I gotten to esoteric. 11:49.98 archpodnet Ah. 12:01.30 archpodnet Ah I don't think so yeah. 12:01.82 Alan Go go not going off yeah going ah going off in La La Land have I drank have I drank the kool-aid yet. 12:09.47 archpodnet Ah, it's It's definitely interesting. Um, you know where you've got all this stuff here and to be honest, you know you hear some chatter about the skinwalker Ranch stuff I mean it is popular because people love this kind of thing that to be honest, they they bill it a little bit on the side of mystical and and things like that and. 12:26.71 Alan Oh yeah, of course and it is mystical. It is definitely mystical. Yes, yeah, and when we think of Mystics there's mystics in catholicism and these were people who were intensive. 12:29.17 archpodnet Anytime Archeologists or Historians are you know are are confused or something like that and don't know the public just loves it. Ah. 12:40.57 archpodnet Um, yeah. 12:45.76 Alan Ah, hope would you call them Prayer Warriors of sorts those that you know we're so we're so intense in prayer and connecting themselves with their deity that sometimes they were able to do things that we don't scientifically understand um. 12:48.52 archpodnet Um. 13:04.56 archpodnet Um, right right. 13:05.31 Alan It's been documented ah that some of some of them were able to you know levitate they were able to read minds. They were able to heal people. They were able to bilocate. They could be in 2 places at once. Um, they could see things that are remotely. 13:14.77 archpodnet Um. 13:24.90 Alan Goes on and on and on and these are things we just don't understand but I believe that they're that they're valid and that at some point we will have an understanding of what those all mean and I think that science and religion and also understanding of shamanism. 13:25.96 archpodnet Right. 13:37.70 archpodnet Ah. 13:42.87 Alan Ah, is is becoming a much more valid platform than ever before and I think we've talked about that before in ah in a number of different contexts. 13:53.44 archpodnet Yeah, and I mean you got 2 things going on here right? We are learning more about this as we you know we study we talk to? Um, we start we talk to groups who you know practice this historically and some still do to today. But as all things go. 14:08.80 Alan Ah. 14:11.70 archpodnet It seems like there's always you know people leaving the culture right? people moving on people forgetting the past people forgetting the culture that they grew up with or or their ancestors grew up with and I'm talking you know in this case Native Americans and you know maybe I mean. Not everybody sticks around you know with the family and and and stays in it like that. Do you think that? do you think that we are not recording this kind of information quickly enough and that we're we're never going to gain a full understanding of all this I mean as much as we possibly could I don't think we'd ever have a full understanding but do you think it's ah it's. 14:45.50 Alan Well I I know that there was a well. So well certainly I mean that's that's rather obvious there's we we lose Ah, you know a native language every day and many of them. 14:47.67 archpodnet In your view and the people you've talked to? yeah yeah. 15:04.58 Alan Have gone by the by very quickly and when you lose a native language and and you know the native speakers you've lost all that understanding and theology and all the associated baggage that goes with it and then the same thing goes for those that are practicing. You know the the medicine doctors. Indian doctors and those that understand this other world this other level of of understanding I always think about this and bring this up when scientists went out to the Amazon and. Tried to understand how native people were using some of the ethno-botanicals to create altered states of consciousness and what they had discerned and what all of that came and they found that with this baniststerreopsis ka pie the ah purple flowered blue vine. That they use. It's called Ayahuasca the wasketos so they said well you have to sort of use None different plants together and you have to know exactly how to process it and how to do this properly so you can use this and have this kind of experience and so the the the and. Doctors and those that are studying. These people were floored. They said well how did you ever learn. You know which plants to use and how to process them and they said well we asked the plants and they told us I thought that was I thought that was very telling you know. 16:36.48 archpodnet Um, right, of course. Yeah. 16:40.24 Alan Yeah, so you of course. But um, there's there's you know there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that goes under the and lot of water that goes under the bridge and there's a lot of stuff. We don't understand So I yeah I don't dismiss anything. So. 16:53.92 archpodnet Um, ah indeed. 16:59.40 Alan I'm sure that in the future. We'll be able to do a bit more insight and wisdom. But for right now Skinwalker Ranch is where it's at 2000000 people watching that show. 17:07.37 archpodnet Well, Okay, then I guess to what need indeed all right? Well I think that's a good place to stop then go check out the skinwaer Skinwalker Ranch series. There's ah, lots and lots and lots of episodes. How many seasons are they up to it's It's a number of seasons. Um, they just keep putting them out. So Ah yeah, all right? Well like I said check that out I'll link to it in the show notes and anything else to add. Dr. 17:27.36 Alan Yeah, yeah, so. 17:37.37 Alan Yeah, no as I as I close out I yeah see in the flip flop gang.