00:04.12 alan Well hello out there in archaeology podcast land this is your host Dr Alan Garfinkel with the California Rock Art Foundation and we're honored and blessed to have a guest scholar Matthew Zubia who is the principal of the. The particular nonprofit foundation for petrolyphs out of the ridgerest area and we're going to be talking to him about just what that's all about how he got involved with the study of rock art and native all all things re relatedating to native. Culture and in turn a bit about the history and evolution of the only Petr Lev festival that exists I think on this earth out of Ridge Crest California Matt are you with us today. 00:56.70 Matthew Zubia Yes I am. 01:00.81 alan Well welcome. It's wonderful to have you I think we had ah quite an interesting dialogue. Last time we were on the phone and the way I usually open this up is to ah let you sort of introduce yourself and ah talk about a bit about your background and. 01:04.48 Matthew Zubia Um, thank you. 01:17.98 alan How you ah got involved with this rather esoteric subject. How's that for a start. 01:25.90 Matthew Zubia Sure sounds good. So I got involved with the the rich chrisst petrolyph I got involved with the rich quest petoglyft festival in 2014 from its inception and historically my I guess my ah. 01:26.56 alan Go ahead. 01:43.18 Matthew Zubia Expertise is in in in music I'm a musician and that's what was my draw to the festival and helping out with it because they needed some performers and some some entertainment for the stage that has that evolved over the years and I became more involved in the the educational aspect. of the Patrick Goff festival I became the chairman of the petrolyph education foundation where we do outreach with the local schools. Yes. 02:08.33 alan And that that and that and and and that's a nonprofit isn't it. Yeah, okay and and the purpose of the educational petroleph foundation is. 02:23.10 Matthew Zubia So as the to do outreach with the the schools in the local area and we work with the Matteranga museum and also a big component of it for me and as part of our ah. 02:30.59 alan Aha yeah. 02:39.84 Matthew Zubia Our our mission is outreach to the local Native American tribes and to encourage their involvement in the ridrest Petrigo festival. 02:44.62 alan Absolutely that's that's correct yes and and of course Matt you and I are sort of linked in that sphere because I've been advising and attempting to position the festival. Appropriately vis-a-vis a complement of of local native people and those that would be considered I guess reasonable and prudent and in alignment with the major mission and geography and emphasis for the festival if that makes any sense. 03:19.39 Matthew Zubia It does. 03:21.76 alan So yeah, so maybe give me a bit of history as as to why and how this all evolved and how where we've been and where we're at and where we're headed with respect to the festival itself. Maybe that's where we'll get started. 03:38.41 Matthew Zubia Sure? Well the the the idea for the festival is it was kind of twofold at the time when it started and one it was to be able to I don't know if showcases the right word but the the petroglyphs that we have here in the area and to bring a. Um, a new kind of festival to Ridge crest that involved the Native American tribes in the area. There's been some bumps along the way and we haven't always been in in line being aligned with the native American Tribes and. 04:14.30 alan Yeah. 04:16.26 Matthew Zubia Sometimes lost the spirit and intent of what we set out to do over the course of the last three years it's been my mission and my goal to ensure that with all due respect to the native americans that that this is an all inclusive festival and to ensure what we're putting on is indeed. Um. With this in in life with the spirit and intent of of what we set out to do and part of that that goal I reached last year in the twenty Twenty one festival when I brought in exclusive native american talent to perform on the stage hang on cut that out. What I want to say what I want to say instead of what I just said is what we did what I accomplished was having an all an an all exclusive. That's not right either sorry but my intent was to have all the performers on the stage for 2021 to be native american. 05:13.77 alan Probably probably an emphasis an an an emphasis or show. Yeah, an emphasis or showcase the native people I would think of the region correct and then ah and then also even a broader sort of concentration or backdrop to be um. 05:15.20 Matthew Zubia And that's the first year that we achieved that. 05:24.59 Matthew Zubia That's right. 05:31.44 alan To demonstrate to communicate and educate the general public on who the native people are what they represent how they view the world and that they're still here. They're not in the past this is a lively and contemporary and vital expression. And we'd like to be able to share that. Um now I know that this has evolved again and I know that there's been a you know it's been.. It's been a challenging thing to demonstrate to native people I think locally the viability and the. Longevity and the function or purpose of the Festival am I correct or no. 06:17.52 Matthew Zubia Yeah, you are correct. It has been as you said challenging over the years because um at the beginning of the the the festival in 2014 it we had the. Several native americans who were with us and helping to put this on but in the end, there's always going to There's always seems to be some concern outside of planning the festival from other entities. Vi it native american tribes or others that aren't really in line with what we're trying to do and it's my goal to make sure that that we are aligned with as many tribes and local areas as we as we can be in aligned with and that's why the that's why the petrickwiff education foundation. 07:05.30 alan Yes, yeah. 07:11.67 Matthew Zubia Is important to continue the outreach with those tribes. 07:16.49 alan Definitely now so that everyone understands ridge crest is in the area called Eastern California the corner of the western Mo Harvey or the southwestern great basin just east of the sierras and there's actually quite a number of different. Ethnic groups indigenous native american ah groups that exist in that area in the far Southern Sierras in the mountains around Lake Isabella and up into the uplands. There's a group called the tabbata labo that means pinion pine nut eaters. Then to the south they have a group called the koayau and those are also so they're southern piute speakers and then we've got the timbasha or the Panama shoshone in Death Valley and then just to the north. We've got the Owens Valley piute and a little bit further north we've got the. Mono Lake paot or Kuzetaka Paute so potentially um actually the rock art itself and the region is sort of a magnet for quite a number of different ethnic groups is that correct. 08:27.91 Matthew Zubia It is correct. Yeah that that you you named all of the the tribes in the area that would have contributed to the to the area in in terms of the the pettoglists that we have out here so you named a couple of tribes there that that. I know for sure now because I've booked them that we have scheduled to perform and and and be involved in our festival coming up in november. 08:49.10 alan Yes. 08:56.71 alan Now when you say perform are they speaking are they are they going to be doing music. What particular activities are they ah part of at the festival. 09:07.45 Matthew Zubia So there are going to be some cultural exchange presentations where they provide high quality presentations for the event they incorporate I'm talking So the tribe I'm referring to now or the the big pine piute. 09:23.89 alan Yeah, oh yes, okay. 09:25.30 Matthew Zubia Slash torublo they'll be doing some exchange presentations for us. We do have a Mono Lake piute who'll be doing a basket weaving demonstration as well. 09:39.37 alan Okay, excellent, excellent. Um I know that at one point we had the toba label that were there the south fork Kern River Indians and I know even another time we had the folks ah from Panament Valley and Death Valley who are the tim besure panamate shoshone. They're also at times called the koso. So um I know I've seen them and they have participated. Yeah, go ahead. 10:01.26 Matthew Zubia Yes, that's correct. We we have reached out to the. 10:09.15 Matthew Zubia Yeah, we I have reached out directly to the Timbashas hasone and I'm trying to to so book them to come out and participate in the festival. That's currently tbd on getting them out here. You mentioned the tabat to la. 10:22.51 alan Sure yes. 10:25.76 Matthew Zubia And I was first introduced to tabatto labo last year and it was pretty exciting because they agreed to come down at the last minute and and perform for us and I I developed a a quick bond with the the gentleman who came down Darryl Garcia 10:35.91 alan Well go ahead. Yes. 10:45.23 Matthew Zubia And was looking forward to having him bring bring his his art down here again this year but unfortunately I won't be able to have him down here this year I am working however, with with with the tabat the lal tribe and I do have ah some phone calls with them later today to talk about their. Possibility of coming down here and and being part of a festival. 11:08.63 alan Great! Great I know that Samantha red ridy courses very active in trying to demonstrate communicate and educate others regarding the the nature and character of of their tribe and the language I know the kawayau. In fact. 11:18.35 Matthew Zubia 4 11:26.95 alan Have a very vibrant language and cultural expression teaching the language etc and I know the Panama the panamate shoshonee or the um, the timbasha the koso people there um, are sometimes represented actually. Bishop There are some koso there and then others are living in Deaf Valley so it's it's rather interesting. Um, it's a mosaic. The other thing that's interesting and I didn't really understand this until relatively recently um. I was out at little lake and little lake is part of the the broader coso range. It's a privately. Um, it's a privately owned duck club that has about let's say 7000 individual instances of rock art. Both Petroglyphs Rock drawings and rock paintings and when one studies those images um some of them appear to have affiliation to what's called the grapevine style and that's ah, that's a particular style that was represented most enthusiastically or. Prolifally with the mojave indians they're also called some of are called the Keatzan they're agriculturists they live on the Colorado River and one of the things they did was they were runners and traders and travelers. So they ran across the east-west from. 13:00.81 alan Ah, Colorado river all the way to the chew mesh country and one of the places they stop was little lake and and so there's images there that are probably representational to them stopping at this particular spot. They also the the mojave. Would identify geographic places in their own language so they had a trail that they followed and one of the one of the one of those places that they did have was in the kosos at little lake which is where they stopped and I believe they had a name for that spot as well. Which is I think another sort of. You know, interesting facet of the connection between native american groups throughout the far. West interesting isn't it. 13:52.50 Matthew Zubia It is that That's very interesting and it you know it kind of all comes together as I as I do my outreach to the various tribes in the area and I'm learning constantly about how the the relationships developed in the past and where we are today. With our relationship with the with the local tribes. 14:14.81 alan Well I think that'll do it for the first segment. Why don't we segue to the next one and we'll dig a little deeper into some of the nuances of all this see in the flip flop gang.