00:00.00 archpodnet And go. 00:03.52 alan Hey boys and girls this is Dr Alan Garfinkel and we're I believe on the eighty ninth episode of your rock art podcast and with us today is our guest scholar Eric Hanson of blue planet one of the world's. Outstanding experts cutting edge on virtual reality and historic preservation conservation and interpretation Eric are you with us. 00:33.96 Eric Hanson I am Ellen. Yeah, great to hear from you. 00:38.43 alan It's great to it's it's It's great to be back on the rock art podcast I think you were here about a year ago maybe longer wasn't it. 00:44.89 Eric Hanson Well, you know I put post pandemic everything's measured in dog years. So that might have been seven years ago I don't know. Yeah. 00:49.80 alan In dog years right? right? right? So but it was It was a long time ago and there's a lot of water under that bridge that's traveled So I guess we can. We can try and go full circle and and have some sound bites about. Where you are in your own business platform I Guess with Blue planet. 01:14.32 Eric Hanson Yeah, we can do that and then there's ah all kinds of evolving technology that we definitely need to talk about So some interesting new things. Good. 01:22.28 alan Absolutely So where are you in your business model in terms of blue planet and what is your ah hyperfocus or greatest ambition at this time in terms of applying vr to the historic Realm Of. Cultural heritage. 01:41.67 Eric Hanson That's right? Um well blue planet was a itch I had to scratch ah I started actually I started on quite some time ago, but it released I think about two years two and a half years ago on steam platform and then about fifteen months ago on the oculus now meta. Ah, platform and it's been very successful. So I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Um, there's another application that came out with a similar intention. Ah so I have a company on the block. But. At the same time. They don't seem to be too concerned with cultural heritage. So I think it's working out well that way and um, and like I say it's a big world. So I'm happy to see more people ah trying to capture more locations but but yeah, my my concentration of course has been. Ah. What's actually been a very unique curation of locations that mostly appeal to myself I'm hoping that appeal. They appeal to others but you know when I first ideated this concept somebody heard heard it out and they said oh well. So Eric so this sounds like a perfect application for you personally. And I said yes, indeed that's that's kind of what my intent is but but a lot of my interest does lie in cultural heritage and ah wilderness and the outdoors and places that I find to be relatively magic and and and meaningful. 03:06.97 Eric Hanson You know from a human experience level. So that's really what I've chosen to do with this It's not a virtual tourism package per se I kind of reject that notion because ah you know I I basically reject Instagram tourism as well and I've seen that as a very destructive thing. So I don't. And don't want to just kind of emulate what tourist activity is but rather gives something a quiet experience of trying to make a personal connection to a powerful location and that's that's what really what I'm attempting to do. 03:40.87 alan Mean I think I think I really I think I think I Really love that the personal connection to a powerful location I Guess one of the ways you and I have interacted is with that new California Welcome Center in ridgecrist. 03:41.11 Eric Hanson And um, yeah I think it's It's been a great run. Um. 04:00.32 alan And that's ah, that's an interesting example of of using your technology and ah applying it to ah the public Outreach Arena Maybe you could say a few words about that one as well. 04:03.13 Eric Hanson Um. 04:11.99 Eric Hanson Yeah I can I think I can thank you for that connection made Ellen but that that is a new visitor center that is ah installed in Ridgecrest california which is adjacent of course the little petrogliff canyon. And death valley and the idea on this is that we kind of touch on those 2 attractions for the area and um so we we actually base it on 2 separate vr pieces and of course vr today is largely disseminated through a headset. Called the quest which is ah at this point about $400 headset ah manufactured by facebook but now meta and ah in any case so it's ah an affordable thing to ah deploy a few of these into a visitor center context. 05:02.88 alan So on that on that visitor center. Yeah I Guess yeah go ahead, go ahead, please. 05:03.36 Eric Hanson And they have done that there we produce 2 pieces one on. Yeah, oh well I was just going to say we 2 pieces 1 is rock art centric and 1 is death Valley Centric and ah the there was shooting well actually the the rock art. 05:15.82 alan Okay. 05:21.93 Eric Hanson Was taken from as you may recall when we first met Ellen on yeah, an early California Rockard Foundation trip to little pet and I was just able to squeeze in a little bit of photogrammetry into one ah kind of initial area. And ah so that is what we've centered it on and as you know, very well. We've integrated Allen into the scene with green screen technology advanced green screen technology and stereoscopy actually shooting right next to the Santa Mon airport which is challenging. 05:47.80 alan Yeah, yeah. 05:56.12 Eric Hanson But we successfully did that and Alan virtually ah stands next to a number of panels and figures in that area and describes what we're looking at. So that was ah 1 one of the 2 and the other one of course describes kind of more actually from a tourist standpoint what opportunities exist in Death Valley 06:23.25 alan So when people come to that facility. They can get some sort of ah a little hit sort of a soundb bite I would call it on looking at a threedimenal model of little Petroliv candy into a little bit of an interpretive piece. And they also get a yeah ah taste of what it's like to visit Death Valley correct. 06:46.26 Eric Hanson That's right and 1 thing to ah we should probably refresh or reiterate from our last talk on the podcast was ah the type of ah virtual reality experience that i'm. Ah, obsessed with has is called ° of freedom or basically it's using ah a scan photogrametric scan just simple photogrammetry technique to capture and then using a gaming engine to put it in the quest so that you have what we call ° of freedom. It really means nothing more than. Then you feel truly present in the scene more than you would from say filmmaking or 360 cameras. This is a method where as you shift your weight on your feet. You get a shift in perspective and your brain processes that is a very strong signal that you're actually standing in this location. And this is a technique that um we didn't exactly pioneer but we're an early adopter of many years ago probably seven hundred years ago and I was so fascinated by it. We we put a egyptian tomb that my business partner had captured working with national geographic on a film in Egypt. And we took that into a gaming engine and it was a I always say it was like a yeah which I say a Watson Bell moment for us and that Greg put this on and said Eric get over here quick and I looked at it I just had chills down my spine. 08:11.59 Eric Hanson And how profound ah the sense of presence was so I'm in to this day. Um, eight years later this is I've worked on this technique just about every single day and I still just find it fascinating. So yeah, so we tried to implement some of that in these in these applications for the visitor center. 08:30.94 alan Yeah, so so there it was now you're I guess being contracted or working on various projects across the across the globe and um I know we saw one of those from the American Southwest. On some archeological ah you know inventory some of the architecture and rock art. Ah, but now you're also working in other areas. Besides that. 09:00.30 Eric Hanson Yeah, the ah again, what? ah my business. So I'm an educator at the at usc University southern california school of cinematic arts the film program and I run a curriculum in cinematic virtual reality. And ah and some other kind of computer graphic classes. So um, but the other but that's really, ah, you know only a few days out of my week and then I have I do my own practice which is embodied in blue planet and. Some of that work is service work done for others. Ah for their projects and some now is done for my own projects and development like blue planet but pretty much you know I'm fairly selective in the work that I take on and have been really just. Absolutely blessed with amazing opportunities that just you know confound me that I can't believe I'm actually working on the type of work I'm doing and ah so one of these is the mcau caves in China and I'm working with the dun huang foundation on that just finished a big. 09:58.69 alan Well. 10:04.50 Eric Hanson Ah, immersive cinema film for the seattle symphony which is a 16 k ten projector I think it's a thirty foot diameter cylinder cylindrical screen. It's kind of an amta chamber to the symphony in Seattle and we have ah. Ah, score done by the well-known chinese composer Ken Dune which will debut in in Seattle in November and so we took all the photogrammetry we've done of the caves there. Um, and ah basically took you on a tour kind of flying through the caves in this cylindrical. Ah, space and projection. It's rather amazing. So that's 1 example of of doing outside work but still, ah you know, fascinating and cultural. But I think what you're referring to is the is the Navajo work done with a group called the onward project and that is a. Ah, if you go to onwardproject.org you can read about this and this is ah there's ah I'm not really going to go into detail I'll let you learn that from the site but it's basically revisiting sites in what's called Segi Canyon which is on ah Navajo Land and has to be under special permit. It's actually the same canyon that navajo national monument. Ah, looks into and they do have 1 ah backpack trip. You can take ah through the park um to ah keat seal. Um, which is ah just a remarkable site but there's many other sites in the canyon that we've accessed under permit with the navojo nation. 11:35.94 Eric Hanson And working with a Navajo family who is raised in the canyon and we have and this is ah there's actually an archaeologist I think at ah Nu Jeff Dean if I'm not mistaken who's done a lot of research at these sites but we have captured these in photogrammetry and allow you. The visitors is actually in blue planet. Ah, to to visit these sites and these are you know again I I never lay claim to be an archaeologist but I love to work with them and um this is just I I know this is one of a ah you know a very high level site and was just an absolute joy to to document. 12:13.50 alan So yeah, that's what I was How does the use of Vr and the kind of technology that you're using now enhance I Guess the the electronic visitors experience and help them to better appreciate or understand. 12:13.38 Eric Hanson So I think that's the one you were mentioning. 12:32.73 alan The value and merit of these cultural resources I Think that's an interesting question. 12:42.43 Eric Hanson It is and um, it kind of but it was matter of fact I just got back from teaching my Vr classes.