00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to the rock art podcast episode 91 this is segment 2 and this is Chris Webster I'm interviewing Alan your host usually but we've just flipped the tables as we do occasionally and we're talking about indexal animals and on the last episode we kind of. And on the last segment we defined indexical animals and we talked about the eagle and the quail as the subjects of the next 2 segments. So let's go ahead and we'll talk about them in in in size order if you will and start with the ah the lowly quail first the one that makes us all laugh I don't know if it's the joker of the animal world or not. But. They are pretty funny. 00:36.56 Alan Well, the quail is something that obviously was an obsession with the research group that I'm most most acquainted with and associated with and that's the focus called the koso coso meaning fire and out of Eastern California where there's the. 00:49.70 archpodnet Right. 00:55.48 Alan Greatest concentration of rock entire western hemisphere. They do a lot of depictions of quail. Um, and they do them in ah and in tiny realms but also in in bigger visages and one of the things that they seem to have been obsessed with. 01:01.61 archpodnet Um, yeah. 01:15.74 Alan Besides the depictions of those birds themselves was in adorning their decorated animal-human figures with quail plumes. They would have quail plumes all along their headdresses or along their. 01:25.75 archpodnet Okay. 01:34.67 Alan Heads sometimes 1 or 2 sometimes I would say over a dozen different quail plumes on their heads now that go ahead, please go. It's okay. 01:39.30 archpodnet Um. 01:48.34 archpodnet Do We see ethnographically evidence of this happening in real life. Not just in depictions on rock art because the quail the plume on the top of a quail's head is I mean Quail aren't big animals so it would be kind of a small thing but I could see that. I Could see that graphically if you were going to depict this in rock Art. You might overexaggerate it and make it something make it something bigger on ah on a human figure right? But do we do We have anything in the historical record that says. Yeah. 02:12.57 Alan That's that's not, you're ah you're on the money Dock. So So this is this is something that was a bit of an epiphany for me. Um I did not Understand. Until relatively recently What this quail thing was all about and I said what the heck is going on here. Why would they? why would they depict quails so much and why would they have these quail plumes on all these creatures all these you know, embellished rather. Elaborate and heavily designed Animal-human figures. Obviously it had to have some kind of significance and meaning so I looked ethnographically and I said well tell me. 02:50.22 archpodnet Ah. 02:59.25 archpodnet Right. 03:07.29 Alan Where does the quail fit in in the indigenous people who lived in and about this region in the western mojave desert of Eastern California and lo and behold. There were some stories. There's a story about this creature called yahial. Amongst the tabbata laba which are the far Southern Sierra Pinion Pine Nu eater people and this was ah a creature that um was looking to get married come some kind of coyote creature and he found a couple of the ladies who he liked and. Wanted to bed them down and but but they had what was called a vagina dentata which meant ah a toothed ah toothed female. Ah ah, what would you call it. Ah you know the the reproductive mechanism. 03:48.75 archpodnet Ah. 03:52.35 archpodnet Okay. 04:05.46 Alan So um and it had teeth and so all the suitors who tried to bed them down or reproduce or spend the night with these two beautiful ladies ended up dying because they chopped off their genitals so coyote got. 04:05.96 archpodnet Um, but wow. 04:24.30 Alan Coyote got a great idea and he said I'm not going to let this these two ladies do that I'm going to use some sort of ah a protection on my member and I'm going to use the the Atlas vertebra of a bigh horn sheep. 04:42.60 archpodnet Okay. 04:44.10 Alan Because it's so strong that they won't be able to break it. It'll break those teeth and so they did that and he was able to procreate with them and that's the way the native people started now when they when they initially came back this coyote. 04:58.24 archpodnet Um. 05:03.23 Alan Was trying to bed down these women. He had a he had a bag right? A special magic bag and he told them whatever you do don't open the magic bag because all of my my little babies will run out. 05:09.95 archpodnet Ah. 05:21.95 Alan And we we need those babies because I'm I'm responsible for peopling the world so he went out to hunt right? And of course they opened the bag and out from the bag popped hundreds of quail. 05:32.59 archpodnet Ah. 05:41.38 Alan Little quail babies popping out of the bag so there they were right? So okay and then also when he came back. He was hunting quail and he would cook the quail under his armpits he would He would be magical and he was was able to. 05:42.41 archpodnet Ah, yeah. 06:01.90 Alan Cook them there and give them to his female suitors. So there's that story which is rather difficult to to deconstruct or understand. So there's another story though. That's that's a little bit easier and that is there is a a. 06:11.62 archpodnet Um, the us. 06:18.86 Alan Figure a deity a spirit a supernatural being called Yahura which is similar to Yahigo and the name Yahura if you deconstruct it, It has to do with death and also a bird-like yelling Ah, and. 06:37.87 Alan And also with with birds So Yahura was a yellow bird. Okay, and this yellow bird um was. 06:42.55 archpodnet Okay. 06:49.84 archpodnet So. 06:57.34 Alan Responsible for um, for transmogrifying revitalizing bringing back the dead animals once they had been killed animals don't die. They're immortal and they go to the animal Underworld and so. 06:58.22 archpodnet And. 07:07.58 archpodnet Okay. 07:16.43 Alan It's his job to get them back every spring and they come out via the holes in the rocks or the ponds or so or the streams or the the rivers and any other sort of conduit some sort of a portal. That they can exude themselves So that particular being of course wears a quail feather robe and this quail feather robe is is the is the magical sort of prestigious robe. 07:40.44 archpodnet Ah. 07:46.25 archpodnet Okay. 07:55.14 Alan Of a shamanistic ancestor deity figure and this bird is is like the like the native people it speaks in their language and all the animals that are in this underworld also speak the language. And there are deer and there are bighorn sheep and there are elk and other big game animals all living in this underworld land this very wonderful land that exists under the ground and in the interior of the earth. And an entrance to that particular world can be found on the landscape of the and in Eastern California to hatchepe mountains and there's an ex. There's entrances and there's exits one of the exes ah is at little a one's in a cave etc. So. 08:45.91 archpodnet Okay. 08:53.83 Alan You've got this portal there and if some of the native people were having a rough time in life. They would be able to visit with Yahura and he would he would allow them into his world and help them. To um, ah rid themselves of their problems if ah, a hunter was having having a failure in in hunting. Yeah, where it could help them if if an individual was sick or depressed or just not with it. He could also he or she could also go into this world. 09:16.31 archpodnet So. 09:33.63 Alan In that particular place. It's called Yahura Canina there is a painting a four foot tall picture of this being and the being has snakes on both sides of it. So the snakes are there as well. There's a rattlesnake and a gopher snake and those are the ah. 09:45.49 archpodnet Okay. 09:52.62 Alan Portal Protectors The guardians of the entrance and when you go in you pass through a sort of a curtain of of water but you don't get wet and then you meet Yahura and it's ah it's a yellow bird that looks like a. 10:08.40 archpodnet Ah. 10:12.28 Alan Ah, large sort of so some sort of a you know, not it's it's like a falcon. Yeah, it's like a falcon or something like that some sort of ah a beautiful bird wearing this this quail feather robe and if you're ah, a woman. 10:17.91 archpodnet Okay. 10:30.53 Alan See a man and if you're a man. She's a woman and then because she's a good or he's a good host. They give you food and it's an endless food. You can either have deer meat or acorn soup or pine nuts or what have you but it just keeps magically reappear. 10:42.55 archpodnet Ah. 10:49.76 Alan Reappearing and so afterwards after you get your food you then go into the place where there's presence and so the presence is a song you get you get a song from ya Huerra and you can pick any song that's on the ah. 11:08.31 Alan The charts there and you get your song and then you get to leave and he bids bids you goodbye and you go out the other way you came in and you go through another veil of water and then you find yourself at a totally different place from where you came in before so that's the ah. 11:25.48 archpodnet Ah. 11:26.81 Alan That's the 2 prominent stories that exist regarding quail or the quail this yahura is involved with ah death and life and it's sort of written into the actual name yahura itself. Also has to do with the sound that they make the little birds these quail have this unusual way of communicating. You can always hear their little chirp chirp chirp constantly and and they're hidden and you can't see them. They need they want they want some place that's. 11:54.42 archpodnet Okay. 12:04.31 Alan That's associated with water because they got to have water a little bit of water but you can never see him. They're hiding and then if you walk they you they explode out of the landscape and they frightened you that you're they come out of nowhere and they're very facund they have you know the. They they have coveys of of dozens and dozens of little baby birds that just continue and they think they have I think they have multiple you know breeds of these multiple birds these coveys of Quail. So all of that and much more. Um. 12:26.42 archpodnet Yeah. 12:41.73 Alan There's a there's ethnography that the native people used quail plumes to adorn their baskets and only their best baskets The most prestigious baskets the treasure baskets and the birthday Baskets. And those that are were ritually or religiously most important were adorned with quail plumes One of those baskets is called the Rattlesnake basket. It's a neck jar. It's adorned with quail plumes and that is the little basket that they make. 13:01.58 archpodnet Okay. 13:19.28 Alan The particular brew with to produce an altered state of consciousness and to go into trance using Deterra and so it and the name of that basket is embedded with the name of rattlesteke. 13:29.55 archpodnet Okay. 13:39.15 Alan Called a rattlesnake basket. There's another basket and it has rattlesnake images all over it now you wouldn't know their Rattlesticke images they're diamonds. They're diamonds and triangles in a big long line and that is considered considered to be. 13:51.22 archpodnet Of course. 13:56.95 Alan The rattlesnake basket The other basket that's called a the other kind of snake that I had alluded to what's it called a counselor the other one that's that I mentioned. 13:59.41 archpodnet Ah. 14:14.42 archpodnet Right? red. 14:14.71 Alan The Gopher snake. Okay, the Gopher snake yes and he and and and that but and that snake has more of a rectangular or sort of blocky set of designs on him and that's that one so that that's that rectangular basket is called the Gopher Snake basket. So. 14:29.93 archpodnet Um, ah okay. 14:34.72 Alan They're they're giving us some clues that there's something important about these about these little bitty animals and also there's something important about those quail plumes and it has to do with something about. 14:40.66 archpodnet Oh. 14:53.28 Alan But life and death and ritual and altered states of consciousness and the supernatural, etc etc and it's all sort of packaged together now when we look at Habits and Habitat right? The quail is one of those. 15:08.92 archpodnet So. 15:12.53 Alan Liminal creatures liminal meaning it lives in kind of two worlds. It can do some flying but it mainly is a ground bird. So it's kind of on the ground but in the air a little bit so it's kind of living in 2 different planes. 15:19.99 archpodnet E. Right. 15:30.79 Alan On top of that. What's really amazing is ah when a quail bird is attacked right by by a a predator The baby bird freeze. 15:40.98 archpodnet Oh. 15:50.38 Alan And look paralyzed and dead. You can pick them up in your hands and they will not Move. They are just look like they're paralyzed and dead and then when they know that the particular fearsome creature is gone. They come back alive I swear to Death. It took me a long time to find that little attribute but that's what they do. It's one of their means of sort of avoiding death and the same thing happens with the mom or the dad if they're in a panic and a predator is going after them. 16:10.60 archpodnet So Wow! yeah. 16:21.40 archpodnet Ah. 16:28.87 Alan They feign like they have a broken leg or a broken arm or there's something wrong with them and like they're dying and the and the animals won't go after them because they don't want to eat a creature who's sick because they don't make. 16:36.29 archpodnet Okay. 16:44.00 archpodnet Sure. 16:47.53 Alan Make them sick so a couple of those things relate here's another one the chimma wavi of the eastern Mojave Desert have a particular hat hat they wear and that hat is reserved for. 16:59.40 archpodnet Ah. 17:06.52 Alan Excellent Hunters or Chiefs of the chimmawavi Indians and that hat has a concentration of quail plumes right in the center of it. So there's there's something. There's something going on. 17:17.26 archpodnet Um, okay. 17:24.78 Alan Vis-a-vis this this animal figure this quail and the nature of their religious metaphor for these creatures. I Think they have to do with sort of revitalization resurrection Vitality life um increase sort of ah a prayer for ah, bringing life to take place sustaining life. 17:42.51 archpodnet Ah. 18:01.29 Alan And also probably rain and water because the quail of course is a ah water bird that that has to have water moisture and it's associated with moist and wet places. 18:01.95 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah. 18:16.68 archpodnet Okay, all right? Well I yeah I hear you I hear you? Well I've got a couple questions around that actually um, and then we'll talk about the eagle but let's go ahead and take a break and then we'll we'll finish up this discussion or at least as much as we can because there's a lot to say. 18:19.89 Alan I could go on but that's ah the beginning. 18:34.79 archpodnet On the other side. We'll be back in a minute. Ah. 18:36.94 Alan Ah fuck Okay doc.