00:01.54 archpodnet Welcome back to episode one ninety Two sorry welcome back to episode 92 of the rock art podcast this is Chris Webster and I'm interviewing Dr Alan garffinkel today about his participation in the recent by recent I mean just a few days ago. Um, Twenty Twenty Two ridgecrest petrick life festival again, we've talked about this a lot on this show because it's a very you know, unique event and and it's only one of its kind really in the world and it's just ah, a really cool thing that you're involved in year after year. So let's talk about that now. What were some of your direct responsibilities and we'll start from. First off you said there was a hundred vendor vendors I assume the California Rockout Foundation had a table there and you were probably there occasionally. 00:42.60 alan You know we did have a table and they gave us the centerpiece literally. The first thing that that they saw when they got into and entered the festival was the California Rock Guard Foundation table 00:51.60 archpodnet Ah. 00:59.16 archpodnet Nice. That's cool seems appropriate though. That's really cool though. 01:01.25 alan Can you imagine which is amazing. Yeah, so that so that was done we um, sold books and gave away Dvds and had people sign up for if they would like to participate and we ah spoke to them. 01:17.17 archpodnet Um. 01:20.38 alan About the nature of the organization and about rock art and and in general but I I didn't man the table at all I was so busy that I was never there but what they had done and what we pioneered last year 01:32.71 archpodnet Ah, nice. Nice. 01:40.40 alan Which was just an idea that I had um was that we we ah did walking tours of petrolyph park. So of course, what's Petro Park Allen right so 01:43.52 archpodnet Um. 01:52.55 archpodnet Okay, yeah, yeah. 01:59.70 alan Ah, Jason to the um festival itself is a park that they've dedicated to the I guess ah showcasing the nature of the rock art and archaeological features. That exist in the coso range which is on base there at richch crest so most of most of it is certainly related to the understanding of this coso representational rock art tradition because there's many many pieces there. 02:22.27 archpodnet Ah. 02:37.60 alan Now additionally, to do this. There's a gentleman by the name of Oliver Dow we even interviewed him 1 time and Ali brought in tons and tons of rock and he had to be had to be engineered appropriately. 02:44.37 archpodnet Ryan. 02:56.64 alan And painted or packed or somehow replicated in terms of the imagery that we wanted to render to show the people who visited what it would be like to to view and instantaneously go on the base and see some of these. 02:59.89 archpodnet Ah. 03:15.77 alan Captivating images and so he did that but they're massive. They're just massive. We're talking about life size or larger than life size bighorn sheep multiples these things stand up. You know as little beacons or icons and as people drive by. They can see them. 03:17.88 archpodnet Ah. 03:35.13 alan Besides that they have these larger than life-size figures that are um, the decorated animal humanman figures that are done in metal and so those are those appear alongside as well. So what we have is ah is a great outdoor. Ah, laboratory or outdoor school an educational platform where as you walk around I can lecture and tell them and talk to them about the nature of my research for the last fifty years and talk about here's this rock art here's a big horn sheep. Here's a ah ah little here's a bow and arrow here's a decorated animal-human figure here are some serpents and what do those mean? What do those imply as to the nature of the religious metaphor. 04:13.49 archpodnet Um. 04:29.14 alan Of Uto Aztecans or native people and why would they have depicted these beings or these figures and how does that relate back to our understanding of the religious metaphor and the theology of rock art. You see what I mean. 04:41.24 archpodnet Right? Yeah, yeah, that's really cool. That's. 04:48.10 alan Yeah, so it's it it just it. It's you couldn't ask for a better or easier thing to do so they they every couple of hours literally you know it was a two day gig and so. At 9 at 11 at 1 at 3 I did walking tours and they took about an hour so I barely had enough time to jump back and see what was going on and grab a bite to eat or anything before I had my next tour. 05:10.60 archpodnet Um, yeah, wow. 05:23.69 alan And it turned out that the um, the groups were substantial. They um one time we had 3 of time we had ten then we had a dozen and and people were very very interested and this seemed to be something. 05:24.34 archpodnet Ah. 05:42.29 alan Something they promoted and publicized and and made people aware of and they wanted it. They signed up for it and they walked over to the particular park and they waited for me and then I walked around for an hour and went from exhibit to exhibit and asked them questions and talked to them and. 05:47.28 archpodnet Ah. 06:01.93 alan Interacted and it was a blast. It's a lot of fun but yet very very educational and I think in in 1 way, the I think one of the the takeaways on this or the function or the particular blessing that might be. 06:05.11 archpodnet Nice. Ah. 06:20.00 alan Is if they would understand something more about the heritage and the identification of native people and gain a bit and gain a bit of respect and then also if they could understand the value of these images. 06:29.36 archpodnet Um, right. 06:39.98 alan And their potential significance to both science and to native people so it's this You know it has it has all of these you know spinoffs relating to it does that make sense. 06:47.86 archpodnet Um. 06:54.39 archpodnet It does and I'm curious about what type of person to be honest with you goes to a Petroglyph festival right? Where do you did you get a sense that these were like you know, rich crest residents or nice. 07:02.69 alan And everybody under this they were people from all over the place people from San Diego people people who were from l a they had heard about it and and I saw I saw the youngsters I saw. 07:16.90 archpodnet Ah. 07:22.17 alan The oldsters I Saw a lot of you know the in-between they had this thing nailed they had the police out in force. They had you know it it just it was breathtaking. It had there was It was a real festival. It was a real. 07:30.28 archpodnet Um. 07:37.89 archpodnet Yeah. 07:40.60 alan You know, authentic and rigorous deal and um I was surprised at you know the you talk to the vendors and the vendors were happy. They they said there was enough people that they. 07:43.78 archpodnet Nice. 07:55.11 archpodnet Ah. 08:00.20 alan They made money and the food was gooded. You know and also the the art and the sale of items was very high quality and even the ah festival The ah the Powow was well done even you know and they brought it back. 08:03.99 archpodnet Ah. 08:13.20 archpodnet Yeah. 08:19.29 alan They brought the Powwow back because they felt it could be an integral part of who the festival is so it's ah I think it's still going to be evolving. There's there's elements to it that could could be even grander. 08:33.95 archpodnet Ah. 08:38.10 archpodnet Did the speaking along those lines did it? Yeah sorry sorry I think we cut out for a second there but speaking along those lines of it evolving every year did anything stand out to you this year. 08:38.95 alan The California Rock Art Foundation and talked about maybe doing a some start, go ahead. Go ahead. 08:54.44 archpodnet That was maybe different from years past or even just last year that you really noticed whether it's attendance or some sort of event or you know something that happened there that was just different in ah in a good way from past events. 09:08.10 alan They they promote they promote they promoted and publicized a native California indian basket weaver and the multiple traditions or genealogies they had ah the parkers there Lucy Parker and her mother. 09:13.86 archpodnet Nice. 09:23.19 alan Her mother's like 98 years old and she's she was there at yo 70 for 55 years showing the the ah the people how to fashion native California indian baskets and her mother was one of the finest. 09:23.34 archpodnet Um. 09:29.21 archpodnet Wow. 09:39.99 archpodnet Ah. 09:43.44 alan Native California indian basket makers in the world and her artifacts her baskets you know sell for hundreds of thousands if not a million dollars so they they so they had these people there and besides they were given. 09:54.14 archpodnet Cheese. 10:02.79 alan You know, notoriety and and able to speak on the main stage and interact with the people who were there which was amazing. Yeah, talk talk about a bit of a coup and also um, the daughter. 10:08.54 archpodnet Ah. 10:10.94 archpodnet Nice, nice. 10:22.90 alan Lives at June Lake which is right there a stones throw away there. Um, you know they're in the mono basin near Monno Lake on the eastern skirt of the Sierra Nevadas so you have an ethnic affiliation a tie to the landscape. 10:30.87 archpodnet Ah. 10:39.39 archpodnet Ah I know in I know in years past you have given presentations I won't call them lectures but like presentations almost like like paper presentations and things like that on your um, you know the movie the documentary talking stone and some other things. 10:51.64 alan Yes, yes. 10:54.32 archpodnet That you have done did did anything like that happen this time around. Did you do any those that say you did some of those that like the madanga and stuff like that before right the museum that's on in the city. Yeah yeah. 11:00.57 alan Yes, over over the course of the last fifty years I've probably done half a dozen or more presentations at the maangum and and I didn't even get to the madiango until the very last hour they were open because I was so I was so busy doing. 11:17.42 archpodnet Ah so busy. 11:20.22 alan Doing these walking tours but they were you know, kind enough to sort of welcome welcome me in and they have for sale. You know a number of my books and the Dvds and etc so we have all of that and we have this. 11:34.00 archpodnet Ah. 11:39.71 alan Basket book that was done that ah, we've talked about before it's an ah immense, unbelievable accomplishment. It has 60 weavers and it cost a quarter million dollars and took 10 years to make so ah the parkers. 11:53.20 archpodnet Ah. 11:59.33 alan And the ancestral of Genealogy is there in the book itself. So you've got the you've got Lucy Parker tell us is the mother of the mom who is 98 years old so there we have it. 12:06.00 archpodnet Um. 12:13.42 archpodnet Um, yeah, well. 12:18.95 alan Um, and so it's there there on the pages and people have a chance to digest it and understand it and even when I was there I got to spend a lot of time with Lucy and she's getting a better understanding of the appreciation. 12:24.87 archpodnet Okay. 12:37.36 alan For the artistic tradition of basket weaving by Non-indians which is something she didn't really understand to the extent that it occurs um without looking more deeply into this book. 12:44.36 archpodnet Um. 12:54.22 archpodnet And go. 12:55.33 alan She was shocked to find out that a number that a number of the baskets that her ancestors have woven sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars so that was a that was a that was an an epiphany and. 13:06.30 archpodnet Wow, That's really cool. That's cool. True. 13:14.42 alan I Don't know where that's going to lead but that's something that I think she takes away and feels good about it in terms of knowing that there is this recognition and benchmark measure of the. 13:28.25 archpodnet Um. 13:32.92 alan Aesthetic nature the artistic achievements of her people how that which is what I wanted to do which is go ahead. Yeah no I That's that's what I was trying to sort of that's what I was trying to do with that book. 13:36.15 archpodnet Awesome! All right? Well let's yeah, no go ahead. 13:48.28 archpodnet Ah, yeah. 13:50.90 alan I was the editor not the author and the the authors of that book ah had an idea to put that together and they just didn't have they didn't have the deep seated knowledge of someone who I guess has worked with and both academically and and interactively. 13:51.49 archpodnet Yeah. 14:00.35 archpodnet Ah. 14:11.20 alan Socially with the native people and you you know more about you've done that yourself so you understand that that that that's a a 2 wo-ed sword and sometimes you get it right? but and sometimes you get it wrong? yeah. 14:16.23 archpodnet Yeah, yeah for sure. Um. 14:26.40 archpodnet Ah, right? Okay, well that sounds like a good spot to take our final break and we'll come back and maybe talk about some of your um, some of your top 1 or 2 highlights from the festival and maybe some future directions. It could go next year or in future festivals. Let's talk about that on the other side of the break back in a minute. 14:41.55 alan Um, thanks.