00:00.00 archpodnet Okay, so Hannah pick it up with the answer to Allen's question of basically how you got into the study of rock card. 00:07.36 Hannah Salyer Sure, um, so how I got into the subject of rock art is a story I think many of us share in that I remember quite vividly um my first exposure to rock art as a pretty young kid. And just being utterly besotted I mean I really I remember seeing I think it was quivas Delos Manos like ah either a Replica or a giant um photo at the natural history museum and I remember being a kid and just feeling. Like wow this is really profound and really um, important and I I didn't have the language that excuse me I didn't have the language for it at the time. Um, but yeah, certainly. 00:57.25 Alan But it really, but it really touched your soul. 01:04.27 Hannah Salyer It really did It was um, very powerful. 01:04.34 Alan And you got and you somehow got the bug about something that we call Rock artt so where is so the cueva de lospoos argentina. Okay. 01:17.64 Hannah Salyer Um I believe that's in Argentina um, yes. 01:23.91 Alan So that was a initial exposure. You must have somehow done something or had activities that caused you to continue down that path at some point what was what was that all about Hannah. 01:37.68 Hannah Salyer Yeah, so I think you know I am first and foremost an artist. Um I'm a storyteller I make as you mentioned I make picture books for kids. Um, and I write many of the stories sometimes I'm just illustrating them. But always always illustrating so sometimes I'm writing sometimes I'm illustrating someone else's story but I have my hands in a lot of jars artistically and I always have um I do ceramics I paint. Um and I I make my living as an illustrator but. Have always been an artistic kid and I think inherently felt connected to you know those ancient artists and those ancestors and so you know throughout my existence um rock art has come up. Ah, few times and's I've always taken note you know when I was young I was really interested then again in high school I remember taking a history class and they started with um the Lesco caves and I remember. 02:47.97 Alan Ah, her. 02:48.86 Hannah Salyer Being introduced and just wanting to stay on that subject I'm like forget all the other stuff I Just want to stay here and um, so what? what brought me to you know, present day and wanting to make this book and feeling really strongly that. 02:54.71 Alan Um. 02:57.00 archpodnet 3 03:05.34 Hannah Salyer You know it was important for me to make this book was um, wenner herzogs ah cave of forgotten dreams. Um, you know watching that actually watching it for the first time and I remember being like moved to tears and I was like that there needs to be a picture book about this. And so that's that's kind of you know it kept coming up in my life and was always really notable for me. 03:34.35 Alan So you had mentioned that you're a um, first an artist correct so tell us a bit about being an artist and how that has come about and how that particular passion and competency. 03:38.40 Hannah Salyer Yes, yes. 03:50.91 Alan Twins with the study of record. 03:54.47 Hannah Salyer Yeah, um, well like I mentioned you know I always have been a creative kid and was always finding ways to just um, make things and mess with all different types of materials. Not only two d but I was like sewing and using Clay and and I still bring that work into my I still bring sorry I still bring that different types of media into my my work now. Um, and. You know I was the type of kid in high school I just hang out I hung out in the art room um didn't didn't do much else but I just was you know I was really lucky to always have a family who supported me on that path. Um. 04:46.89 Alan So so art so art in all, its different fashions. It's different subject matter and tapestries appears to be a central pivot point a central sort of thread in your entire life. 04:48.56 Hannah Salyer I consider I'm I'm. 05:05.39 Hannah Salyer Yes, yes, indeed. Um, and you know again like I mentioned I think I've always felt you know the focus of my art has always is and has always been On. Um I think that. You know ecosystems and other species and plants and animals and but at the heart of that I think you know looking to other things on our planet and just being so um. Enamored with them helps me understand my humanity. Um, so you know that's a big part of my work. 05:44.54 Alan So You've so you've really, you've really so you've really had a ah passion almost in the anthropology or ecology of art in terms of looking at our biosphere looking at the natural world looking at animals and plants and relationships and things along. Those lines am I correct. 06:01.56 Hannah Salyer Yes, absolutely really well put. 06:05.00 Alan Well interesting I Don't think I've had someone with your particular niche anywhere on the rock art podcast. Everybody comes to this adventure in different ways. So You also had mentioned that part of your past has been involved with. Children's books you said that very quickly maybe tell us a bit about that chapter of your life. 06:31.79 Hannah Salyer Yeah I would say well first of all I'm still in it I'm kind of this feels like you know so for context um I went to art school I went to Pratt and Brooklyn Pratt Institute and 06:33.60 Alan Um, yeah. 06:48.70 Hannah Salyer You know, met some really wonderful mentors. There had some made some great friends who are also talented artists and you know being part of an art community. Um I feel like it. It can often enrich your own practice and it certainly did that for me. Um, and. You know at school I came back to this I kind of came to this realization that um, you know and when I was younger I would write and um draw books and make books and And. Ah, write stories and comics and I loved storytelling. Um, that was always really important for me and it's something that I just would kind of do very inherently and naturally just about I don't know just you know how to kind of understand make sense of my life. Um, as it was happening storytelling was always crucial for me and and certainly books as Well. Um, but I loved writing stories and um in school I was reminded that I loved writing stories and and you know, um. Telling visual stories and realized oh wait I can make a career out of you know, creating books for young people and the minute I realized that that was just incredibly exciting to me. Um, and it was something. 08:19.83 Alan Quite a bit quite an epiphany. Ah so it's the visual storytelling and also for children and young adults certainly that that has been part of your life correct. 08:33.40 Hannah Salyer Yes, yes, exactly Um, and I you know you mentioned children and young adults and it's it's true. You know another thing I consider when I'm working on books and writing stories is I want stories to be. Stories I write and work on to be accessible to everyone you know Maurice Sendak who did he created where the wild things are and he had a famous quote along the lines of you know you should never write down to children picture books should be for everyone to enjoy. And I always think about that when I'm working on books you know for young kids every every person in every stage of their life should be able to enjoy a picture book. Um, so that that's a huge underlying philosophy for me when I'm when I'm working on these stories. 09:26.22 Alan And how does that guide your hand and in terms of entertaining the notion of different pictures. How do you bridge the gap between all these very different ages and levels of maturity I would think that would be a bit of a challenge. 09:28.94 Hannah Salyer Um. 09:43.94 Hannah Salyer Yeah, it certainly is um, you know and I think what I've realized in um, doing this work and I should say I also have experience working directly with children. So. 10:00.82 Alan Um, ah. 10:01.90 Hannah Salyer Babysitting and being a nanny and also like working and um, you know I used to teach and still teach some um art lessons for kids. So I do I am in close proximity to kids and I see what they pick up on and it's. You know it's a lot and sometimes people you know we us older folks don't give ah young people and little people the credit. Um, you know for for what they can kind of understand but it's just about finding the right? um. 10:38.99 Hannah Salyer Way to convey ideas and you know making sure your vocabulary is accessible I Love kind of using really interesting words and dropping big words in there but you also need to make sure that you have a kind of scaffolding in your story to help a reader understand. A word that they might not know um or learn a new word and so that's you know an example of of something I think about when I'm writing I don't necessarily want to use I'm not trying to dumb down language in any way. Um, but. You know I like to keep things simple. But when I can kids love learning New fun, big words and I remember loving that So I try to do it when I can um using that language. 11:30.95 Alan My son tells me ah my son tells me I vomit a dictionary. That's what that's what he Yes, that's what he that's what he tells me. So yeah and my E supposed a poiscy emre my wife forever. 11:36.33 Hannah Salyer Um, what an image. 11:48.87 Alan Um, is a little Tahanna Mama and so we have tremendous fun with words. She's speaking Spanish and teaching me and I using my standard vocabulary and so if I use ah a word that's too complicated for her I'll say do you know what? that means. 11:50.18 Hannah Salyer Skin. 12:01.74 Hannah Salyer Um. 12:08.19 Alan She goes? no but I'm sure you can explain it to me. You know says but I'm not sure I wanted to know quite that much about it. So anyways, words are um, fascinating and. Kind of forms the tapestry of my life as well. People call me a word Smith or the Grand Synthesizer. So I think you with your niche are a grand synthesizer as well in terms of twinning or pairing pictures and words. Talk to me about that. 12:48.25 Hannah Salyer Um, Alan you know, could you repeat that question. You got a little glitched out. 12:52.38 Alan Yeah, can you talk a bit about how do you? How do you pair pictures with words. Do you write the words and then do the pictures are the pictures first and then do the words how does this work. 13:01.76 Hannah Salyer Um. 13:07.65 Hannah Salyer Ah, that's that's a really good question. Um, and I would say it's different with every story. Um, for ancest story in particular my rock art book. Um I would say that images came first. 13:23.75 Alan Really, that's surprising huh. 13:24.15 Hannah Salyer Um, I Yeah yeah, they because I just um I was I was really meditating on these images from all of these different rock art sites around the world I was looking. 13:31.31 Alan Are. 13:42.62 Hannah Salyer You know I was really grateful for um, the bradshaw foundation because that site was just so great and helping me access and learn about um, all these different sites in a very like centralized location. So I remember I was just kind of doing a lot of research about all the sites globally and I was just I remember in the beginning I was just trying to work through the images I was painting I was using Pencil I was kind of um, using there's ah. There's a type of acrylic Medium. That's essentially material that you can mix into paint that has like bits of pumice stone in it and I was kind of experimenting and with paper clay and all these really textural things and of course charcoal and different different drawing. Um. 14:24.66 Alan Um, oh really. 14:37.79 Hannah Salyer Minerals Essentially um yeah and I didn't know what I was doing quite yet. Yes, yes exactly I didn't know what I was doing but for this book It was very much starting with the visuals trying to. 14:37.94 Alan So different Mediums Mediums to execute some of the pictures for the book. 14:56.99 Hannah Salyer To get um a certain feeling. Um and I would say yeah. 15:02.82 Alan And what feeling and what feeling what feeling was that that you were trying to communicate or entertain I would imagine it. It was ah had to do with the emotions but maybe not I don't know. 15:16.66 Hannah Salyer Yeah, it certainly did and I think you know it it was I was trying to get back to that feeling I told you about of just being utterly. Um I don't yeah really, ah. 15:30.11 Alan Gobsmacked awestruck. 15:33.42 Hannah Salyer Really awesttruck and um, just so fascinated and you know just conveying this sense of power and mystery um that is inherent in rock art right? because they're these images are so powerful, but there's also as much as we're learning about. These sites and these images there's still so much we don't know um and I think that's really. 15:57.50 Alan That and and that's that's fabulous and a great place to stop? Um I'll see Okay, ah and the next segment will continue this ah conversation see in the flip flop gang.