00:04.00 alan Not archeology podcast for rock art podcast time I all you friends and people who are interested in rock art studies and a little bit of adventure. We are blessed and honored. This is a real treat to have Ellenlanie Moore with us. She is a professional artist. 00:05.00 alan Not archeology podcast for rock art podcast time I all you friends and people who are interested in rock art studies and a little bit of adventure. We are blessed and honored. This is a real treat to have Ellenlanie Moore with us. She is a professional artist. 00:23.84 alan Someone who's dedicated her life and many decades of her time to studying the great mural rock cart in baha California that you've we've talked about so much on this program. Some of the largest and most beautiful prehistoric paintings in the world. Elanie are you with us. 00:24.84 alan Someone who's dedicated her life and many decades of her time to studying the great mural rock cart in baha California that you've we've talked about so much on this program. Some of the largest and most beautiful prehistoric paintings in the world. Elanie are you with us. 00:45.10 alan Praise the lord I ah I am telling you this this digital world of ours miraculous isn't it so where it where are you connected to us. You're down there in in Southern Cal so cal 00:46.10 alan Praise the lord I ah I am telling you this this digital world of ours miraculous isn't it so where it where are you connected to us. You're down there in in Southern Cal so cal 00:49.60 Elanie Moore Yes I Am thank you. 00:57.89 Elanie Moore Ah, yeah, yeah. 01:03.91 alan Idawild and where's iddawild California. 01:04.49 Elanie Moore Well, it was invented by people. Ah I am in idlewild. Yeah in idlewild and it's up on top of the centosinto mountains on the highway between. 01:04.91 alan Idawild and where's iddawild California. 01:09.30 alan Okay. 01:10.30 alan Okay. 01:14.59 alan Oh beautiful. That's a beautiful Wow Oh God Bless you. 01:15.59 alan Oh beautiful. That's a beautiful Wow Oh God Bless you. 01:22.70 Elanie Moore Palm Springs and hemet. So I'm a mile above sea level and it's a beautiful day here and we're sitting out on the patio of the local coffee house and there's almost nobody here and it's just. 01:30.43 alan That's fantastic, gorgeous gorgeous. So we're going to talk a bit about your adventure with the ah sierra day San Francisco and the great mural rock art. The grand des morales. 01:31.43 alan That's fantastic, gorgeous gorgeous. So we're going to talk a bit about your adventure with the ah sierra day San Francisco and the great mural rock art. The grand des morales. 01:40.75 Elanie Moore Her fate. 01:46.70 alan They see day San Francisco in the peninsula of Mexico. Yes, yes, so so the way I usually kick this off is ah going to tell us about about yourself a little bit and how you ever got involved with the study of native americans rock art. 01:47.70 alan They see day San Francisco in the peninsula of Mexico. Yes, yes, so so the way I usually kick this off is ah going to tell us about about yourself a little bit and how you ever got involved with the study of native americans rock art. 01:58.60 Elanie Moore Um, are are they best today you see? yeah. 02:05.99 alan Art in general and your passion kick it off. 02:06.99 alan Art in general and your passion kick it off. 02:17.92 Elanie Moore Okay, to begin with I was at art Center College of design as a graduate student and I was looking for a subject that I could use for my thesis and that. 02:24.17 alan Um. 02:25.17 alan Um. 02:32.38 alan Um, a. 02:33.38 alan Um, a. 02:33.75 Elanie Moore I just felt like the world doesn't need another study done on Picasso or matisse or anybody and I was looking for something unique and I overheard a conversation between some people I was a newcomer to the area and. They were're talking about baha and I told them I used to do a lot of camping and and I used to go do cave crawling and Carl's bad caverns and then one of them says oh and I think the caves have paintings in them. 02:59.93 alan Ah. 03:00.93 alan Ah. 03:08.35 Elanie Moore And I went Oh so I tracked down somebody who knew about the paintings and I found out there was there was really only one commercial group taking people in. 03:18.80 alan Are. 03:19.80 alan Are. 03:23.54 Elanie Moore I Avoid commercial groups usually but this time it was necessary at least I could see where they were how to get in and see if there was enough there for me to study for my thesis and that's where I got in trouble because I went on that trip. Fell absolutely in love with the paintings and they had everything that I loved most it was as if though my whole lifetime had been preparing me for this I majored in art and. 03:55.89 alan Wow. 03:56.89 alan Wow. 04:01.10 Elanie Moore And got um 2 bachelor's degrees and 1 master's degree in art and painting I used I grew up in partly Wyoming. But in the the rocky mountains so I did a lot of camping including snow camping and rain camping but and. 04:05.44 alan Ah. 04:06.44 alan Ah. 04:21.29 Elanie Moore Definitely wild camping. So we also had horses and so I had to ride the mules to go to these paintings and I knew how to cook over campfire. It was everything was there. Including art. Oh and ranches in Wyoming there were the ranchers the ranches kids and I had a lot of friends at the ranches and I used to go out to them. It was just amazing. It says like god had been preparing all this for me and just waiting for me to find it. 04:49.69 alan So it so it so it suited you what? what? what? What led you to art as ah as a passion as a profession. What growing up. 04:50.69 alan So it so it so it suited you what? what? what? What led you to art as ah as a passion as a profession. What growing up. 04:58.37 Elanie Moore That's how I got started. Oh yeah. 05:07.65 alan Um, ah. 05:08.55 Elanie Moore As ah as a child I I love to not color in coloring books but to do my own thing and my father supported me all the way through my childhood and. 05:08.65 alan Um, ah. 05:13.31 alan Ah. 05:14.31 alan Ah. 05:20.12 alan Well. 05:21.12 alan Well. 05:23.77 Elanie Moore And I guess he just convinced me by the way he treated me that I was going to be an artist and so I went to graduated high school and I went to college and majored in art. 05:29.00 alan Who And and then you you decided to go ahead. Ah and theater. Okay. 05:30.00 alan Who And and then you you decided to go ahead. Ah and theater. Okay. 05:41.50 Elanie Moore Actually yeah I actually mined in biology and theater which is a word combination and the biology was very helpful too because I I could recognize. 05:44.17 alan Yeah. 05:45.17 alan Yeah. 05:53.90 alan I. 05:54.90 alan I. 05:59.38 Elanie Moore The little animals and I understood the bugs that were crawling over me and you know dealing with living on the ground and so that was an added Bonus. Ah and also plants I had done a lot of work with plants and collecting plants and deserts. So when I got there My my guide had an aunt and I think ah I think it was a sister who both ah were the kind of the medicine women for the mountain people. 06:28.47 alan Um, ah. 06:29.47 alan Um, ah. 06:37.42 Elanie Moore And every time we needed something then they would go out and they'd pick a plant for me and give it to me now. This is how you cook it. This is how you fix it and don't drink too much of it and ah and it worked so I got to learn that whole culture too. And because I was used to the culture of ranches and animals I also enjoyed being on the ranches and getting to know the culture there of ranches when I entered the mountains to do this work. The the. Mountain People were still isolated from the outside world. There are no roads in and they had to do everything by Mule and they would take my guide use to go with his father. He grew Up. Going with his father and helping with the Mule train and borough train to bring things from the Ranches goat cheese wood and that sort of stuff to the city and then they would exchange that for the the essentials they needed like. Sugar and flour and so on and so I heard all the stories of that I saw that all happening and they were still making their own booze and I got to see how they did that So There was. 07:53.79 alan Um. 07:54.79 alan Um. 08:06.51 Elanie Moore I was in ah, a crossover because as more tourists started coming in the government started getting aware that there were people in those mountains and they started they built schools for the kids and they gave the people cement blocks to build a room. 08:16.47 alan Um, ah. 08:17.47 alan Um, ah. 08:24.77 Elanie Moore Teach them how to do that so they could eventually expand that to a house so the world changed very quickly for these people I'd say it switched from three hundred years ago to the present. 08:27.96 alan So it was very fast. Her big shift. 08:28.96 alan So it was very fast. Her big shift. 08:40.79 Elanie Moore Yes, and that was for me very exciting to see it because as a friend of ours you know eve as she put at 1 time when she brought the guides up here to ah who are the ranchers up here to the states. 08:54.95 alan Um, ah. 08:55.95 alan Um, ah. 08:57.39 Elanie Moore She took em places in San Diego including a museum and one of the guides saw the bed in the museum from an early California Ranch that San Diego had replaced and he said oh he says. 09:02.44 alan Ah. 09:03.44 alan Ah. 09:11.55 alan Are ah. 09:12.55 alan Are ah. 09:16.65 Elanie Moore That's the bed I sleep in and he so he started recognizing things so it was It was really a crossover and then it was a coming into the new world experience for these people. 09:21.88 alan Wow. 09:22.88 alan Wow. 09:29.74 alan Scared him scared in the death. Oh my word that was that was that was it that was a surprise. Ah so so you made it down to baha. We call it the grand canyon of Mexico it is ah some of the most. 09:30.74 alan Scared him scared in the death. Oh my word that was that was that was it that was a surprise. Ah so so you made it down to baha. We call it the grand canyon of Mexico it is ah some of the most. 09:33.00 Elanie Moore She also took him on an elevator and didn't tell him it was going to move and so when it moved they all hit. Yeah, they all hit the floor on all fours. So but anyway it's yes, ah. 09:46.80 alan Unbelievable country. But right so yeah son most unbelievable country you ever going to see um desert just and and ver it. 09:47.80 alan Unbelievable country. But right so yeah son most unbelievable country you ever going to see um desert just and and ver it. 09:51.65 Elanie Moore Yeah, yeah in the seater of San Francisco 10:02.80 Elanie Moore Yeah, but when I hooked up with the the crew that took us in on the the tourist trip we went up to palmerrito first and that's the one with it's 250 running feet at of paint paint surface. 10:03.65 alan Um, ah okay. 10:04.65 alan Um, ah okay. 10:09.35 alan Wow. 10:10.35 alan Wow. 10:17.89 alan Yeah, wow. 10:18.89 alan Yeah, wow. 10:22.39 Elanie Moore 400 or close to 450 um I don't remember the number exactly imagess painted on the walls and the ceilings the highest 1 is forty five feet off the floor of the cave and um. 10:27.44 alan Wow. 10:28.44 alan Wow. 10:39.68 Elanie Moore I laid down on the floor of that to look at those images and I just when when they called me to the mules we were going to move on I Just came back shaking my head and I said you know this has got to be at least as good as. 10:54.20 alan Ah, ah so you you felt you you felt right at home and you and you were ah you you were in in your in your ethereal. Plane heaven. Yep, So then ah. 10:55.20 alan Ah, ah so you you felt you you felt right at home and you and you were ah you you were in in your in your ethereal. Plane heaven. Yep, So then ah. 10:58.39 Elanie Moore If it's not better than the sistine chapel ceiling and I just was blown away. Yes, in my yes in my element for sure. 11:10.42 alan I guess what brought you to? ah the biggest cave and the one that's the central I believe focus of your research right? Cueva pintata. 11:11.42 alan I guess what brought you to? ah the biggest cave and the one that's the central I believe focus of your research right? Cueva pintata. 11:17.35 Elanie Moore Yeah. 11:23.27 Elanie Moore That pentata. Yeah yep, yeah and quava pentata is twice as big as pomerito and it's probably the biggest. Cave in the sierra San Francisco that has paintings I'm not sure. But anyway I'm going to be talking mostly about imagery that I saw in Cueva Pintata and my my way of approaching. 11:41.86 alan Okay. 11:42.86 alan Okay. 11:56.46 Elanie Moore What we're doing today is really pretty simple. A lot of people have have gone down there. A lot of people tourists archaeologists historians art art historians and so on. There in fact, at one point which was but about ten or fifteen years ago now now I think it was at this point in time is more like twenty five years ago ah the oh darn that that. 12:18.12 alan Um, yeah. 12:19.12 alan Um, yeah. 12:23.89 alan So so about twenty five years ago yeah 12:24.89 alan So so about twenty five years ago yeah 12:32.44 Elanie Moore Noise distracted me. Um, oh I know what? yeah that pink Cleva pintata. Um, there were oh that there were people coming in. 12:33.83 alan Um, and. 12:34.83 alan Um, and. 12:49.44 Elanie Moore There's a lot of interest a lot of people have seen the images on the internet and there are various people's websites and so on and not very many of them were actual researchers. Um. 12:53.57 alan Right. 12:54.57 alan Right. 13:06.29 Elanie Moore And so they take it upon themselves to give a report to and correct Wikipedia but they don't know what they're talking about because they really haven't experienced it what I've experienced is what it's like to live there live with the paintings. 13:06.96 alan Um, ah. 13:07.96 alan Um, ah. 13:25.96 Elanie Moore Live with the world of the artists and live with their ranchers and how they survive I learned about how to how to use my stomach as a canteen and fill it up with water as well as my canteen. Before walking out the door to start a trip and I learned that from the the ranchers. So. It's that kind of stuff how to survive and and then when to actually do work I understand now why the mexican siesta. Happened because it's so hot in the desert in the midday you'd make yourself sick if you did labor then so it's better to just relax in the in in our country I've lived along the border states most of my life. That includes New Mexico and Arizona and in our country there's this tourist postcard that was really popular of the mexican leaning against ah, laying down and leaning against saguaro cactus and is. Sombrero tipped over his head ands sleeping hits the s yesta picture and it was also kind of a cartoon and people tended to get the idea that the mexicans were lazy people. Well they just had to live with them for a while to find out because they get up in the morning. 14:59.73 Elanie Moore These people at the ranches still today they get up in the morning at about 3 3 30 they've already had a cup of coffee and a tortilla and and they're on the trail got their mule saddled on the trail. And going out and grounding up all of their their herds of goats and bringing them in at at four o'clock and then they got all of a man by at least eight thirty or nine get them in the corral and then they spend several hours milking them and starting to make the cheese and they don't stop until ssta time and then they at their siesta and then after that. 15:43.54 alan Um. 15:44.54 alan Um. 15:55.47 Elanie Moore They do the same thing they have to go go out and bring them in again, get them close to home and do all of this other work that they have to do for a ranch and so they get to bed by about ten o'clock at night 16:09.90 alan No nothing lazy about about Mexican Americans No and ah I've had the blessing going down there several times and seeing what they go through and their expertise and their strength and sophistication. It's amazing. Well let's let's let's cut it off Now That's the first segment. 16:10.90 alan No nothing lazy about about Mexican Americans No and ah I've had the blessing going down there several times and seeing what they go through and their expertise and their strength and sophistication. It's amazing. Well let's let's let's cut it off Now That's the first segment. 16:12.20 Elanie Moore Anybody that lives on that kind of schedul and does manual labor is not lazy. So no, no there. It really isn't. 16:27.20 alan And we'll see on the Flip-flop Gang. Thanks. 16:28.20 alan And we'll see on the Flip-flop Gang. Thanks. 16:30.67 Elanie Moore Um, yeah, and. 16:39.13 Elanie Moore Um, okay.