00:00.00
archpodnet
Welcome to episode a 111 of a life and ruins podcast where rein investigatsige the careers of those living life in ruins I'm your host Carlton Gover I'm joined by my co-host Connor Johnn this week David is doing research on just how quickly you can run out of money driving a diesel bus across the country. Not only reading about it but experiencing it for himself. Ah, for this week's episode. We are joined by Evan Albright who is a journalist that has authored None books. The man who owned a wonder of the world and cape cod confidential if you've been listening to our show for a while now you can probably guess which one of these books we'll be covering today. Evan it is such a pleasure having on this evening. How are you doing so.

00:34.71
Evan
I am doing excellent. Thank you so much you gentlemen doing well.

01:19.66
archpodnet
And as well as I can be yeah yeah, big change is happening so Evan we ran into you via the interwebs. Um from Dr David Anderson who was on episode None

00:41.83
connor
Yeah, we'll go with that I think that sounds appropriate.

01:53.98
archpodnet
And so we're continuing this theme of talking about chichin eatsa the Mayer world but you're coming in it from a different perspective as um, an author or a journalist and the work that you've done um, in the research that you've conducted on your book. The man who owned a wonder of the world. Ah, the greeno history of Mexico's Chi Chinisa so what inspired you to pursue that book on.

02:10.61
Evan
It was a madman's quest I will just tell you from the very beginning it was it was madness on my part and I knew it was going to be madness. How I came across the story was I was working on cape cod for a series of weekly newspapers and if you work for weekly newspapers and you're an editor. None of the things you need to do is you have to fill the space between the ads and the top of the page. So. I was looking for something that would be evergreen that I could put into the space that would that would fill it at any given time so I could just haul it in and drag it in and I came up with this idea. Why not do a history of crime now I live on cape cod. That's where those stories were pulled and so what I did was I did some research went to the local library went through all the newspapers going back to the eighteen hundreds brought myself up to the present and and I would scan the newspapers and when I found something interesting. I would just hit copy and take it home didn't even bother to read it if the headline was interesting and I went all the way back to the 16 hundreds in some cases for some of these stories so it was all the way from the pilgrims to the present then I would get back to my office I'd sort them and I'd actually read them. And I came across this one story and I said oh this is interesting I'm going to put this aside and it was a a story from None 26 The Boston Globe had interviewed a gentleman by the name of Edward Herbert Thompson who was living on cape cod at the time and. Edward Thompson had been accused by the mexican government of stealing a million pesos worth of artifacts from something that I didn't know what it was it was called the the dead city of chichen itza I'd never heard of it I mean I'm sure I probably learned about it in school. But. It. It didn't ring any kind of Bell and I thought how could you steal a million pesos which at that time was $500000 how could you steal that many artifacts and then it said that the mexican government in retribution for this. They seized. Thompson's plantation which was called the hasi enda chichen which was right next to chichen ita so I found this story and my rule at the time was I would write these little quick stories that would go in the newspaper. But if it took more than 4 hours to do research I set it aside for something else.

07:39.31
Evan
I put that story aside for None ears and then I was out of work at None point I'm a writer by trade and I had just been laid off by used to work for Elsevier publishing by the way so you scientific folks know that and i. So I said you know I guess I could write a couple magazine stories let me dip into this chichen story now I had done this ten years before and that consumed 10 years of my life this other story that I had found so I but I said you know I think I can knock this off in a couple of weeks so I dug into it. And I immediately answered the question. How could somebody steal um a million pesos worth of artifacts from a maya archeological site that I found out was the most famous None in all of Yucatan and. At the time one of the most visited sites on the planet. Although at the time it was kind of in the toolies. But I learned that Thompson did not own the hacienda next to cicche itsa Edward Herbert Thompson and american owned chichen ita that was his property. The hacienda included all the ruins of chichen ita now he had removed these artifacts from the sinote sagrado which is a cinwell on the property. And into this the maya would toss sacrifices of in addition to people. They would also put in ah various. You know, http://goldjadepottery etc. Thompson.

11:41.50
archpodnet
I yeah so that's the sacred tootte that's like closed today but that's like the primary one that's at Chi Chan

11:19.45
Evan
That is correct so Thompson brought in a dredge and dredged the sanote sagrado and so and those artifacts which I found out filled None rooms. None rooms at the peabody museum at Harvard which is where they ended up. Um I go this is a huge story. There's no way you can ship None rooms full of artifacts without somebody knowing about it. And then I later found out that Thompson had actually won his case before the supreme court of Mexico spoiler. So for those people who want to read my book but he won the case and indeed it was decided that he had stolen nothing. So I knew that this was a huge story to a.

13:35.60
archpodnet
How did he? How did he own the joint like what when did he purchase the property like what? what's the backstory to this American greeno like owning it. How'd that happen. What.

13:23.23
Evan
So so there are all sorts of historical tropes about Edward Thompson and him buying chichen. Um, but I actually broke down and did the research and to me it was. Ah, yeah, because that was my question is how indeed could a gringo by by this site which was even well known at the time that he bought it which was eighteen ninety four and yeah the the story is that he he tricked or. Conned his way into buying it for none now. This is you know that's that's a story and so when I would travel to Yucatan I would I got to know a lot of yucatekos and if there's None thing I learned nobody's going to cheat them.

15:11.38
archpodnet
And what? ah.

15:08.87
Evan
Out of anything. They are a pretty shrewd group of people down there and particularly the people who were in the upper cast the Costa Divina the very rich people. The hasandato. So what I found out was actually that purchase was orchestrated by at that time the bishop. Ah, Yucatan and the bishop wanted to make sure that this property did not fall into the hands of someone who wouldn't be able to properly care for it. So he very carefully shepherded it through a couple of members of the costa diva the hasandato class through them. To Edward Thompson and so the purchase price I can't remember what it was it was you know a few none or something like that. But in typical yucatechan style something that kind of went a practice that continued almost to today is there's the price that you tell the government. And then there's the price that gets paid now at that time chichen was considered abandoned land and the president of Mexico and the government of Mexico was trying to get this abandoned land sold and under somebody's ownership so that it would become tax-generating property. Um, so in this case, the bishop of Yucatan was looking out for chichen and made sure it went to Thompson who already was doing archeological research in Yucatan.

17:57.79
connor
That is I mean that's that that's really interesting I guess technically it was abandoned if we wanted to think about it like in archeology terms. You know you could you could consider it abandoned land. But um, so so it becomes this like mix with like the church. Government trying to avoid taxes and then it it ultimately gets funneled to this this this Thompson guy what kind of happens when he takes control of that and actually owns the parcel of land.

19:15.10
Evan
Right? So as I said one of the things that he did was dredge the sanote sagrato that is actually bring in a giant bucket dredge bucket. What do they call it. Orange peel dredge. Ah, had it imported from his home in Massachusetts and had it shipped to Zias which is the community several kilometers away and then it was carried overland this thing must have weighed tons carried overland to chichen where it was set up by the sinote sograto. And then from 19 Ah 4 to 1911 he began dredging now this was paid for by 2 ah benefactors of the peabody museum at Harvard University um they ah. They wanted to see if indeed the legend was true. The legend that had been related by Bishop Diego Delanda back in 1566 who wrote that if there was gold in this country if there were riches in this country because Yucatan doesn't have any natural resources like gold or Jade or anything like that. It's It's just a limestone plane if it if those things existed they would be in that sanote sagrado thompson began dredging and 4 and proved the legends true and most of what he found he shipped up to the peabody museum at Harvard. Had shipped in crates except for the gold and the jade there were some very valuable artifacts and those he smuggled through various intermediaries. Ah you know the argument that I make and I'm probably wrong. But I'm ah I'm just going to say it I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. None of the reasons that he smuggled them that in a rather surreptitious way was that getting anything through customs and getting it through customs where customs wouldn't either seize it or divert it or I'm going to even say they were famous for stealing. Ah, what you had to do then was to be somewhat tricky about it now what he did was completely wrong and I know is completely frowned upon by the archeological community today as as well as the legal community and but in the end, the supreme court ruled that. It was a violation of law and required a five hundred peso fine which was paid by the next donor of chichen itsa that was the barbachano family.

25:06.92
archpodnet
And so how for audience how large was this property.

24:48.29
Evan
So you know as yeah I was trying to answer that I think it's six hundred hectares I believe maybe eight hundred hectares um and a hectare is none so it's it's quite large but chichen is actually far larger than that. And it is a network of little villages that go all around there. Um, yeah, that's ah that's I think that's right and I'm talking off the top of my head unfortunately so but it's huge.

26:02.12
archpodnet
Yeah, but it's almost fifteen thousand acres or fifteen hundred sorry yeah it's it's large. For you know four hundred pesos you know that's that's a large I could only dream of acquiring that much property for two hundred American dollars like that. No no, not anymore. No no, no, no, no.

26:02.97
Evan
Yeah, it's not going to happen didn't happen now. Oh didn't even happen back then I'm just telling you he he didn't acquire it for None so

25:58.83
connor
Um.

26:15.43
connor
There. There's some other other he he dealt with he was giving money in other places that is not maybe recognized on the books essentially.

27:10.56
archpodnet
Yeah, right? Oh absolutely. So who's this next guy that owns the property and why did um why was it given up in the None place.

26:40.90
Evan
Yeah I suspect that's probably the case you know somebody made some money somewhere had to had to.

27:05.23
Evan
The um, well the mexican government as I said had seized the property in 26 what prompted them to take control of the property was that a Edward Thompson had kept the secret if you want to call it that the secret and I'm doing air quotes here. The secret of the dredging of the soote sagratto for something like 20 years and then he yeah you get the feeling he kind of decided he wanted to be famous so he revealed it in None to A New York Times reporter a woman by the name of Alma Reid and that was published in the New York Times which was the first time. Ah, you had a major newspaper write about the fines in the soote sagrado by the way, nothing happened, no action by the mexican government other than a delegation from Mexico went up to the Peabody Museum took a look at the artifacts and went huh guess you got the artifacts. 3 hree years later however a book was written and there was also a change of government in Mexico Three years later um a book a biography of Edward Thompson was written by a gentleman by the name of t a willard and what Willard mentioned. Rather prominently was that the treasure was valuable and that it included gold and the second that that came out all of a sudden that's when all hell broke loose for Edward Thompson fortunately at the time. Ah, or unfortunately as far as Mexico is concerned. He was out of the country and at that point he could not return to Mexico and Mexico sees the hassi end at chichen as I mentioned before oh so you asked me about the the family that got it afterwards I'm sorry that's a great that's a great story. So.

31:10.24
archpodnet
Yes.

30:29.33
connor
No none other.

30:48.50
Evan
Ah, and probably is the none reason I decided to do this book. So ah I was talking with an archaeologist who had been at chichad and um, we were just kind of chatting and I was telling him about how Edward Thompson had owned. Ah chichen and he was like you know how funny do you mention that because I was just down in Yucatan and ah somebody there was some guy named Barba Chano who said he owned chichen and he was in the news and I thought how odd. So this is around 2004 I find this out and I do some research online the internet you know wasn't quite the internet. As robust as we had today. So I found this rather html written code story that was in a newspaper. And I manipulated it and it's in spanish and at that time I barely could read any spanish at all for this project I really had to teach myself to read spanish. So ah, but I'm reading it I'm sort of translating it word by word and it appears to be that this person by the name of Fernando Barbachano Gomez rule was claiming to be the owner of chichen itsa so one of the things that I did that. Ah, by the way, a lot of people who write about this. Don't bother to do and I don't know why because it's very easy is I found an email address for Fernando Barba Chano Gomes rule and I sent him an email and I said are you the owner of chichen and he replied to me. Minutes within maybe a few hours after I had sent the email and he said and this is in my book. It's actually at the beginning he goes basically sadly he's not the owner of chichen because he gave it to his grandson a few months before before I sent this email. And yes, his family has owned it since 1944 and and then he went on a rant about archaeologists and the government and everybody else who was making his life at that time a living hell because they were trying to take chien away from his family. And that was something that pretty much was ongoing at that time and all the way through the writing of my book was the attempt by the government and by ah, ah, various business people to try and strip chichen from the barbachano family now.

36:26.10
archpodnet
It. It's like what every nebraska farmer I run into thinks is what's going to happen to their property if archaeologists come on it which is like dude, it's not true, but in this case like this guy has some merit but ah, you know for being a wonder of the world None might. You know, be apologized for saying maybe it shouldn't be owned by None family but um, on that note, we'll be right back with Evan if on episode. Ah None 1 None stay tuned for these sweet suite advertisements by our Lord and ruler Chris Webster