00:00.00 archpodnet Welcome back to episode none of a life in ruins podcast we are here with Vince Vincent Batista the cool guy. We're very excited to have him on. We finished the last segment or he finished the last segment talking about what he enjoyed about. The university of Michigan and ah the the program as it so as it is um and we we wanted to ask you? What were some things that you maybe were like less excited about or um, you kind of had some issues with while you were there. 00:19.27 Vince Battista Ah. 00:50.70 Vince Battista Um, yeah, couple. Well so like the structure of courses was kind of tough so like some of the courses that we had to take we had like ah like a 4 hour walk 4 hour long cultural anthropology class on Wednesday mornings like at 8 a m. 00:51.79 Paul_E Walnuts Damn. 01:29.55 Vince Battista Until lunch or something like that and that was tough because like a lot of the students in the program were who were taking the class were like a little bit further on they'd done so much more the reading and like it was easier for them whereas like there was like None or None bylanth throw or all a camp people like in that class it worked first years and like that was tough like it was the the course was called trads or traditions of ethnology and I think it's an important class e Karl Marx like you read Charles Darwin you also read um you know, like very. 01:58.51 Paul_E Walnuts Wolf. 02:37.47 Vince Battista Foundational things ethnological research and so like that's cool because it's fourfield program. Whatever like that class was brutal like super super long graduate school classes are like not fun like not lives and then and then another thing was um, like. 03:16.42 archpodnet Now. 03:12.93 Vince Battista The way prelims were set up. It's brutal like like the way that these exams are not everybody can write well not everybody can write like 12 essays in a week and like have them be good to be able to defend it like that's tough. Ah. 03:08.81 Paul_E Walnuts Ha ha. 04:02.18 archpodnet So it so prelims prelims for the audiences. The stuff you do right before you become a candidate right for your Ph d. 03:47.81 Vince Battista Everything. 04:04.45 Vince Battista Yeah, so ours was like to yeah exactly yeah, it was like 2 parts. So like our first one was like I think it was end of our first or second year it's basically you do like a bunch of ass essays with a committee which is like. 03:37.69 Paul_E Walnuts It's like trials. Okay. 04:39.99 Vince Battista Supposed to get you be able to write fast smaller stuff and then the second part is you basically write an and nsf and then like a grant and then like you need to propose a project and like defend that and like that was helpful and that was cool. It was really tough but like whatever but just the way that that was like. Tough because we had a really big cohort There's like None biowamp people I think in my cohort so like getting every getting it such that like everybody's committee members would be around it'd all be done at the same time that was really tough but also like I just think that it's like not a good structure. Not a lot of people thrive in that sort of like environment and like that's. Like teaching is about my philosophy about teaching is like it should be done in a way that empowers people and elevates people and like challenges them but like does it in a way that like they can approach it in a manner that helps them grow and like I don't feel like I really grew from that. Like I passed and I had to rewrite like all my essays. My grandmother died the next week so I was like really not in a good place and like that was just what you had to do because like and you can't like stop. You can't like pause because all the rest of your cohorts doing it. You know so like that and then also it's so cold. 06:01.25 Paul_E Walnuts Tim. 06:20.10 Paul_E Walnuts Yeah. 07:08.95 Vince Battista Machine is so freezing like my thin Mediterranean blood like all the olive oil just like coagulated and just like wasn't really good wasn't really good at all I watched a lot of hockey games so that was cool but like the cold it's like I think I had like seasonal effect of the sort of like I just. 06:44.90 Paul_E Walnuts Ah. 07:01.29 Paul_E Walnuts Hey. 07:47.53 Vince Battista Like it just like when you're in the lab all day or in class all day. You don't see the sun for a week you're like yeah if you like a place the scene guy like in you know in between like glacial cycles I got trapped in the suving alps. 07:28.19 Paul_E Walnuts You're just a pasty like shell of a human. Yeah. 07:40.76 Paul_E Walnuts Nice. 08:21.26 Vince Battista Um, living in vogel herd caves chewing on carcasses and fermenting them. 08:47.12 archpodnet Is that Well I guess I guess that's why otsy was a little later but maybe that's why he was like I need to see the freaking sun and he just went up into the mountains trying to get above the clouds and then he got popped. 08:04.19 Paul_E Walnuts Yeah. 08:37.63 Vince Battista Um, they got shot. but but None None job movie is Boat City ice man um heyot see let me tell you something. 08:16.95 Paul_E Walnuts Everyone thinks it's see so you I see he got whack. Dude he was whacked. Also it. 09:16.61 Vince Battista Look We're gonna take a long walk. We're gonna go up the old sell out soon. We're gonna have a picnic. Don't worry about bringing stuff. We got all the gabago. Oh it's see. 09:02.53 Paul_E Walnuts Ah, ah yo that's perfect. We need to make that a movie also was going to say oh oh okay, really are you from Naples. 09:56.16 archpodnet I. 09:55.45 Vince Battista Which which in neapolitan means uncle so is this a coincidence. My dad was from was borning kaeta which is like in the mountains like north of Naples but it's ah all part of the same kingdom of two siies. 09:45.67 Paul_E Walnuts Okay. 09:56.49 Paul_E Walnuts It italy least got a lot of stuff going on at all times in history. Um, that's a um giuseppe gob baldy well we'll talk about that in the another episode but um, they garra Baldy that was. We're gonna edit that out. Um the um. 10:30.13 Vince Battista And yeah. 10:37.95 Vince Battista Um, yeah, um, yeah, air ball. Yeah. 10:30.27 Paul_E Walnuts I was in Rome and the guy was like that little canon like that's like to celebrate like Giuseppe Garibbaldy like it's ah every day at noon and I was like wait I know that oh right italy had like 45 different like warring family states at some point. It's basically like you know game of thrones. Um. 11:26.59 Vince Battista Um, dude gar Baldy lived on staten Island as a candlemaker dude was a candlemaker right? Brought I mean we haven't left ever since but but here's what you don't know is like. 11:05.65 Paul_E Walnuts Did he He was a staten Island boy. 12:01.43 Vince Battista Garre Baldy was also involved in the American Civil War Garre Baldy Dude Garibaldy like became super super popular. He's involved the American Civil War in like the you were Guian like Civil War something like that. But the dude he's like a very complex figure because like. 11:32.45 Paul_E Walnuts I did not know that. 12:39.19 Vince Battista He went to Southern Italy we're all like sick like you know we're going to like no longer be like you know part of the same empire as like Peru or whatever going to be cool, whatever and then we got completely screwed over like lost like we had the way less autonomy. Got a language for on us that wasn't ours and like still if you look at like pretty much any indicator for like development or health or whatever in in italy north northern italy and Southern Italy are basically 2 different countries. Southern Italy is basically like not even in the same like northern italy is like Europe. 13:10.70 Paul_E Walnuts To truscan. 13:49.73 Vince Battista Yeah, right? Northern Italy is Europe southern italy is its own thing man and I love it I wouldn't have any man there. Yeah, we're Mediterranean du and we got like the best food and novelties. Excellent sorrowty. So. 14:18.68 archpodnet It's Mediterranean. 14:29.94 archpodnet Yeah, go. Ah oh who's ah yeah' what to say I can't mar what coaches now I can't remember their man. What's it's whatever. Um, so it is insane How how like ah prelims just are like there to like it's like this. 13:40.99 Paul_E Walnuts How snowed. 13:56.99 Paul_E Walnuts Um, um. 15:08.48 archpodnet Like ancient way to like screw people over and beat you down. 14:25.10 Paul_E Walnuts It's just like because it's the way it's been is like why those things exist is kind of the feeling I get you're right Conor. 15:00.47 Vince Battista Um, yeah dude I had to do it So you got to do it so stupid supposed to. 15:29.16 archpodnet Yeah, what's all suffer because we all suffered and you know it's just keep beating that mental health down till you know. 15:20.79 Vince Battista Um, it's like ableist in like and here's the thing is like it's ableist like ons own but like I think about but think about like students who have children think about students who have English as a second language. 15:15.10 Paul_E Walnuts Ah. 15:57.85 Vince Battista Or like students that you know come from like I'll be the None person to admit and acknowledge that like I have a mountain of privilege like that that is at full stop. There were no, there were no conditionals attached to that if I had this heart of a. 15:44.49 Paul_E Walnuts Moment. 16:31.47 Vince Battista Time doing it and like I have a lot more at my disposal than like how else are the people doing and like I have a lot of friends who did great take them out of the you know great job. Did a great job but like I also have a lot of friends who had an equally terrible time and this isn't like unique to Michigan this is like the american. 16:34.27 Paul_E Walnuts Um, oh. 17:08.23 Vince Battista Graduate student experience like I had friends hope you guys froze or I froze. 17:36.76 archpodnet Come back to us. 16:48.73 Paul_E Walnuts Um, I Just lost you. 17:51.16 archpodnet Come back to us I can. 17:02.41 Paul_E Walnuts Can can you hear me Connor I see you now we just lost any of the chin ah Chris at about 10 seconds ago when the silence started vinney just dipped out. 18:12.38 archpodnet All right? ah. 17:39.29 Paul_E Walnuts Um. 18:33.46 archpodnet Let's give it a second and we'll just see if he like pops back in and then we can kind of. 17:45.85 Paul_E Walnuts Yeah, oh she spread text and hit refresh. 18:16.81 Paul_E Walnuts Oh you're good I was just nexting. Yeah, how to do it all right? Chris he is back. It is 9 thirty Nines nine minutes 40 minutes 40 seconds um yeah we talking about preli. Ah yeah, so um, it's ah. 19:08.70 archpodnet And no worries. 09:18.73 Vince Battista That guys. 18:47.61 Paul_E Walnuts You're right? It's tough and like I had just like crippling anxiety and I will also admit like I'm also privileged as shit growing up like with the family that I had and like it's hard still at that and like I know there's other students who have to work full time to do it and it's just like it's grueling. And that does give me respect for people that have Ph D is because it's like you went through the fricking ringer but also like it doesn't need to be that hard. 10:33.91 Vince Battista Um, yeah, 1% yeah in like I don't know I'm glad it's over with it's all I'm gonna say become done. 19:54.41 Paul_E Walnuts Well, let's ah, dig into then um, in class in biological anthropology class. We had ah Jim Mahern um Dr. Jim Maher and he went to Michigan as well and side note I want the audience to know Michigan is like. Always has been and it still is like 1 of the top schools for anthropology. So like that's why it's also like such a challenge there and why like our professor went there and like the None guys are about to talk about and Vince it himself. Um, but anyway, ah. Jim mahern our our professor had us do very interestingly like our second week of class our archaeological and anthropological pedigree. Um, and to trace back our teachers to Boaz um, and like it's pretty sick. We're like ° of separation away from boaz in a lot of senses as a student. Um. 12:19.93 Vince Battista Crash. 21:39.55 Paul_E Walnuts It's kind of like you know you could trace back to Musashi or like Yoda or something but um also I think Boaz is canceled but anyway, ah yeah, it will. 22:44.32 archpodnet Well like like we figured out that like we're like a a degree of separation from like Benford right? We're 1 one step away from benford. 22:03.53 Paul_E Walnuts Um, right. 13:04.97 Vince Battista Wow Dude Bford Dude Man benford. Ah, we can do about piner while ah. 22:19.63 Paul_E Walnuts He is was ah um, yeah, so ah, the benford thing. Yeah we can we have to do a whole episode on Benford I think Bob talked about of the bunch on his. But yeah, um. 23:12.68 archpodnet He's a wild child. Um, but yes, go back. 22:53.11 Paul_E Walnuts What struck me as cool was I really liked Jim's take on human evolution I learned quite a bit I also that's the best grade on a paper I ever got and I wrote it about dog domestication and he was like this is the shit. Um and just like the way he would explain biology and how it worked was awesome. But he learned that all from Milford Walpo um and he like woolf every day like we would drink every time he said it? Um, and yeah, so like when you hit me up about that neanderthal thing and you said you're a wolfop student I was like. 14:41.49 Vince Battista That was also benford. But. 14:57.19 Vince Battista And. 24:04.19 Paul_E Walnuts Immediately like okay I take this guy very seriously and his information is probably more correct because you you know specifically study it but like it's weird because I you know he's got a pedigree I should listen to him it sounds kind of like you know oh but. 15:27.45 Vince Battista Yeah, sounds sounds. Yeah, exactly you I like him I'm like the inverse of that. So like I think I pretty much only said it cause I was like so if I as I remember it like you were talking about multi-regionalism right? and I think the context while I was like Milford himself told me this. 24:50.70 Paul_E Walnuts Man. 16:03.93 Vince Battista Sort of thing so it wasn't like I was trying to name drop. But I'm like gang like this is from the source like no not being filtered out through like Chris Stringer or like anybody else like this is like Milford. So yeah, yeah. 25:15.25 Paul_E Walnuts Right. 25:27.85 Paul_E Walnuts Um, what I was oh um. 26:21.22 archpodnet So what was your but I was going to ask what? what's your experience. What was your experience working with them. How. 16:43.99 Vince Battista Oh he's the man. He's great I just went over his house for lunch last month he hosted me Rachel he and Rachel his wife Rachel Asperry who's a professor at I think central michigan awesome like I aspire to be like them when I'm grown up that turned 31 but I'm not a grown. 26:15.15 Paul_E Walnuts Um, doubt. Ah. 17:23.13 Vince Battista But um, but Milford you know Milford Milford's interesting because like you know he's ah he's like gritty like you know he reminds you of my dad like people think he's like bellicose um, but he's not He's excited people like he's talking over me I'm like he's excited. He's excited. He loves teaching and he's excited and he's invested like. He's not talking. Overs isn't like he post none of all, he's not talking over you second of all, he's excited. That's why he's loud and stuff and like as you know that's how I am too and so like me messed really well in like he sometimes just like in class would like intentionally say things because he knew that I knew they were wrong. Right? So you like have some professors who would like do the socratic thing like oh why do you think that is military to be like what if I told you this thing which is egregiously incorrect and like factually can you can demonstrably say it's not true and you would do it anyways and that's like a really important teaching technique I think for like people who learn like the way that I do. 28:13.27 Paul_E Walnuts Interesting. 19:18.19 Vince Battista And yeah, he was awesome like it's also worth mentioning I had Abby as my co-advisor and like they were a really good balance and I really think like for people just about to get their ph d get a co-advisor it like is so nice, having like like a balance. 28:49.90 Paul_E Walnuts I Think that's what I did. Yeah. 19:55.57 Vince Battista You know what? I mean yeah, that's great. Milford was awesome and like in like like he was a really good teacher. He was really tough but I grew substantially because I had him as a professor and I think he challenged me really in the right ways like also being able to teach for him for many years and like be his lab manager. 29:28.11 Paul_E Walnuts Yeah. 20:33.70 Vince Battista Was great and like you know it was awesome and like that like what people don't know about he like 1 of the None biolaws going to college just like really use a computer for a dissertation. He took like all these measurements on None of teeth and then like on punch cards putting through a computer and like did. 30:02.17 Paul_E Walnuts Damn. 21:08.41 Vince Battista Big data. It was like a big data project for the time and like that's huge and so like he's always been a really big advocate 1 of like younger people is like younger people are probably right like just listen to what young people have to say and to he's been a huge advocate for like computational biology. 30:47.47 Paul_E Walnuts Yeah. 21:44.79 Vince Battista Like even without saying it. He's like you need to learn how to do statistical computing and do it and like that that is something that not like all I do now in my job in a clinical and translational epidemiology unit. Nothing related to anthropology all I do is computational biology because he recognized it as a worthy toolset and like. Look at the way that archeology is going like there are machine learning papers in archeology I would not have anticipated that ten years ago some of them aren't good. A lot of them are incredible. 31:35.33 Paul_E Walnuts Um, yeah, so along that line um like what I was getting at with the the pet. Well my headphones just went wild with the pedigree thing is like not necessarily that it's like oh he descends from this person therefore I should trust him but like. 32:27.50 archpodnet Now. 32:38.66 archpodnet A. 22:50.47 Vince Battista Oh. 32:14.99 Paul_E Walnuts Wooff taught my teacher and he has like the way we view. The world is very similar and like I like understanding that and like once like I knew you were a walop student. We were immediately friends but also we were friends just because like you know we were talking and send means to stuff and dogs. Yeah, but like it's just when you meet an anthropologist that. 23:23.81 Vince Battista Right. 23:42.77 Vince Battista Dos. Yeah. 32:53.63 Paul_E Walnuts Thinks similarly and like you have the same lens of the world. Your conversations are like fire. Ah because you can just yeah, it's just so awesome and like everything you just said like is like yeah, it's like looking at the world through like a computational sense like why not look at it this way and like the way he's teaching and things and. 24:03.43 Vince Battista For sure. 34:20.44 archpodnet Yeah I think but yeah, yeah I was going to say but I think it's also interesting to when you run into people of the the either opposite school or different school and you have those conversations as well because obviously we are We are conditioned a little bit. 33:32.47 Paul_E Walnuts Obviously. 24:29.35 Vince Battista To the hundred percent 33:53.21 Paul_E Walnuts Yeah. 34:53.42 archpodnet By our teachers and by who we study underneath so we have this like you said this worldview and it's fun to ask what other people are viewing and how they're doing it as long as it's done in like a respectful and like good way I mean I think that's it's fun to do that sometimes to be like Okay, what just. 25:09.73 Vince Battista Yeah, yeah. 25:23.19 Vince Battista Yeah, yeah. 35:31.44 archpodnet Give me give me the speech give me the give me the elevator speech of like why you guys are correct on this topic etc I Think that's. 25:48.71 Vince Battista Great. Yeah, you know. 34:54.53 Paul_E Walnuts And speaking of the elevator Speech I would love to pick your brain in conorwood too about neanderthals and everything you know about them in the next segment he is currently beating his chest like a gorilla as if he's to say yeah I'm the guy for that. 26:13.31 Vince Battista Take me up. Let's do it. 36:14.84 archpodnet Ah. 35:26.49 Paul_E Walnuts Um, all right. We'll see you guys on the other side. 26:27.43 Vince Battista Um, I'm a sub-adult gorilla.