00:00.47 archpodnet And we're back with episode one twenty five of Lo Froms Podcast we're here with chance ward master student in the museum and field sos at c boulder so we've really just gone in this past episode just kind of talking about chances undergraduate graduate career. The things he's been involved in. Um. But since the the year of overlap that we had at see boulder me and you got into shenanigans is not the right was not the right term but like based on our backgrounds me and you have both been invited to do like joint like media projects through through will Taylor who's your direct advisor he's on my ph d committee. Um. And I think there's two stories I definitely want to touch on but the first one is we were invited to be interviewed for um this Pbs documentary on on Dr. Taylor's horse research. 00:41.12 Chance Wonderful. 00:46.64 Chance That right. 00:55.12 archpodnet And ah, they really wanted me in chances and perspectives as indigenous people on on horses and I mean what what was your what was running through your head when you first got asked to be interviewed for for the show chance. 01:13.87 Chance Ah, my reaction was I am totally unprepared because it was my you know first semester and I was only maybe a month or 2 into the program and all of a sudden Rocky Mountain pbs once they interview us for some indigenous knowledge on cultural knowledge on horses and you know they had their whole lighting set up and all these big professional video cameras in our face and all I could think about was I am. Not a horse expert at all. But here I am sitting in front of cameras about ready to tell my stories and knowledge best that I can and but it was it was fun that ended up being fun and you know I wish we could redo it. Because I was very nervous and had a hard time speaking on camera. 02:12.91 archpodnet And yeah, that was that was a weird experience because I kept I was more worried about saying something wrong and getting roasted by the tribe for it than anything else because they like throw you up like so tell us tell us Pawnee Beliefs on horses and I'm like I know I don't know everything and I will answer to the best of my abilities and. 02:20.39 Chance Um, yeah. 02:31.32 archpodnet Tell you you should probably verify everything that comes out of my mouth with my tippo and agfer officer because I don't um, super nervous right now. But yeah, that was that really surreal experience with the makeup and the lighting and like all that and then me and you when you because your recording was at the museum mine was at the studio in Denver. 02:35.54 Chance Um, yeah, yeah. 02:51.20 archpodnet And I went to go give you support and then like me and you just end up like in the middle of the interview like just shooting the shit with each other and just teasing each other and we had to explain to the production staff like oh historically me and chances Tribes didn't get along so that's where like this this joking animosity is coming from and and the back and forth and then. 02:57.20 Chance Um, yeah, yeah. 03:10.98 archpodnet I think that made them feel better because I remember 1 of the guys laughing about it. But I think they were like kind of anxious about how we're talking about it for a moment. 03:16.16 Chance Yeah, yeah, it's always fun to do the you know the traditional friendly tribal Rivalry joking with each other and that's why I still continue to send you the the memes throughout. 03:30.60 archpodnet The memes. Yes, yeah, man that was that was a fun time I don't whatever happened with it like did it ever get published in it. 03:36.91 Chance Um I don't um, if I remember they said the episode would come out I think we did the interview in October or November and I was told the interview would come out in like April or may but I haven't. 03:46.98 archpodnet Yeah, something like that if. 03:55.17 Chance I haven't heard a thing since then I never searched for either. So maybe it's on the website and we don't know about it. No one. No one's emailed me asking me why I said these things yet. So maybe it's not out. 04:00.74 archpodnet Yeah, I'm gonna look for it I don't. 04:11.40 archpodnet Yeah I can't yeah I haven't seen anything about it I think I ask like will like whatever happened to the to the episode man and he just ah, never got. 04:11.45 Chance No, one's quite no, one's question. What I said so. 04:26.76 archpodnet Got back I don't even even know what it's under. Is it under native lens now probably not. 04:29.10 Chance I don't know I know is Rocky Mountain pbs but I haven't looked into it or searched for anything. So maybe they maybe they fact checked us and figured out we were all wrong and scrapped the whole thing. 04:37.83 archpodnet Yeah I'd be. 04:44.83 archpodnet Up. Let's got rid of it. Yeah, that would be a that would be a bummer I can't yeah I can't can't find it I'll have to hit up have to hit up will and see see whatever happened with that thing. 04:48.83 Chance Um. 04:59.43 Chance I Still have the email from the original. The guy that interviewed us so or at least the guy that interviewed me So maybe I'll send an email and say hey what happened to the episode I have I heard anything since then. 05:03.95 archpodnet In hand. 05:16.83 archpodnet Fair they do have like a whole thing on humans and horses. But I don't think that's us that's from 2019 well before we've even got involved in it so whatever. But that was that I mean is still. There was still a cool experience to to go through all of ah. 05:18.00 Chance E. 05:28.92 Chance Um. 05:33.68 archpodnet To go through that rigma role and and try to because they were really interested on like you know how on will's research upending the the traditional narrative as to when horses spread and like everything that we were talking about and the research that we're all doing together shows horses got up to native to indigenous communities like much earlier than. Um, what like Pueblo Revolts That's the big narrative Once? the Pueblos released all the horses. That's when everyone else got them and like everything that we're showing both with the science and then more importantly, all of our old traditions which is why we were brought in. Don't mention the revolts or like we we talked about how we got horses in very different ways. 05:54.43 Chance Um. 06:06.78 Chance Um, right. 06:12.46 archpodnet That um you know which which is supported by. You know the archeology that we're that we are seeing so. 06:19.19 Chance Yeah, most of my interview they were asking me about the way I grew up with horses on my reservation and you know I talked about growing up riding horses and you know my family. My father's side of the family their cow ranchers and my dad and his. Cousins and Brothers are real big into rodeo rodeo champions so they were asking Me. You know what's the light growing up in the rodeo family and and things like that. So So it's interesting that they didn't really ask they. 06:41.73 archpodnet Oh yeah. 06:57.72 Chance Almost didn't ask me anything about the work that I was doing or that we were doing. 07:02.21 archpodnet Really? oh yeah, they asked me like Pawney traditions on I had to talk about like mud pony and stuff like that um mud pony. 07:10.29 Chance The mud pony. Yeah, they yeah they most of it was about rodeo and riding horses. Yeah, they asked me if um, how I learned to ride horses. 07:16.63 archpodnet I Miss rodeo culture man I. 07:27.20 Chance If I knew how how how well I could ride and was like well it's kind of subjective I think I'm good but I'm I'm probably not good at all in comparison to. 07:37.40 archpodnet Ah, yeah, yeah. 07:44.17 Chance Professional rodeo guys. You know. 07:45.38 archpodnet Fair enough. No yeah, like I'm I'm I'm horrible compared to that because I came from the same that same kind of family right? on i'mnna textwell right now. What happened. 07:53.58 Chance I I can ride good enough to not fall off how's that. 08:01.92 archpodnet Yeah, exactly or others fall off not get hurt. But then the second thing we got involved in which was which was I don't know how they came across us or me. 08:18.23 Chance And I think I think they came across you because you you pulled me into it too. 08:19.40 archpodnet I Don't remember this. 08:24.40 archpodnet Oh you know what? they emailed the I'm looking at it now I think they they emailed the Pbs people and they they sent them to us sent them to me and I I was like and then I rubbed you into it so we got be a chance Scott interviewed or we did have an interview but we. 08:34.36 Chance Um, okay. 08:42.84 archpodnet Had to speak to Mel Bee's agent from Mel be like the Mel be from the spice girls because they're from the spice girls. Um because they're doing this. It's called. It's by the british broadcast and corporation Bbc this trailblazers documentary which is about this. Um. 08:46.18 Chance From the spice girls. 09:00.77 archpodnet British woman back in the 1918 hundreds that like went out west and like wrote a book about it became famous and then the spice girls their plan is to like follow in her footsteps to learn about the american west and so they asked they wanted to talk to. Ah. 09:14.45 Chance I. 09:18.43 archpodnet To be a chance about how they could go about having the spice girls participate and film a lakota sweat Lodge Ceremony. And that's why roped in chance I was like I don't think this is a great idea, but let me bring my lakota friend in so we can both tell you why this isn't a great idea. 09:39.51 Chance Yeah I thought that was pretty hilarious I I thought it was a joke at first when he said it's mal be and the spice girls they want to do a lakotas wet lodge and. 09:47.63 archpodnet Yeah. 09:56.62 Chance Want to know why or why? not why they shouldn't do it and that was pretty funny that we actually got to do a Zoom meeting with the agent with Mal Bee's agent and I remember them telling us well they're going to start on the East Coast and they're going to start heading west. 10:00.29 archpodnet Yeah. 10:15.36 Chance Across the open frontier and when they get to Colorado they want to do a real lakota sweat lodge on camera and record everything is that okay to do. 10:20.63 archpodnet Chao. 10:30.66 archpodnet And in that it was like a 45 minute call and we were on there for a while and she was like her agent was super nice and like just was genuinely curious. She's like well Mel B had done 1 in like Kentucky or something and we were like what do you mean? she's done in authentic sweat lodge in Kentucky and we were like trying to explain to the agent. 10:35.64 Chance Um, yeah. 10:41.95 Chance Are. 10:48.71 archpodnet Like the the cultural values of it and like how you find like fraudsters and like authentic versus non-authentic like the the chance of finding a lakota medicine man in Colorado that was going like to get actually perform like as an authentic sweat lads. You're not going to be able to film it or. 10:51.87 Chance Um, but. 11:02.93 Chance Right? exactly. 11:05.61 archpodnet Or really talk about it. So I thought it was a really productive conversation because I think at the end of it like the agent just seemed like oh my God Thank God We don't have to do this like she seemed relieved that we're like don't do this. 11:15.82 Chance Yeah, yeah I was pretty happy with the responsive this the the agent showed us She seemed pretty like okay good I don't have to figure this all out for melby. 11:26.91 archpodnet Yes, Yeah I thought that was that was pretty I thought that was pretty fun that like I went into there like are we gonna have to like tell this British woman like have to do this whole colonial story and it mostly just boiled down to like could we. Just tell her. No so she had less work to do and that's what a you know, basically boil down to like this is not a good idea for this for these for these reasons like this is bad and this soon be bad press and she's like okay, Perfect. We don't have to do this. 11:50.42 Chance Um, yeah. 11:54.20 Chance I expected somebody that didn't want to take no for an answer and was going to find a way to do it whether we approved or not. 11:58.34 archpodnet Yeah. 12:06.69 archpodnet And it doesn't look like ah it happened I mean we'll see I don't think it's come out yet. But I know there's some things on it but it've been cool to like actually talk to Mel be that've been fun but now and we talked to agent I mean so we we got that close to to celebrity. 12:21.10 Chance Um, but yeah to to British Celebrity you we should have brought that up in the interview we should have said face time mal being right now so we just. 12:23.26 archpodnet Yeah, and then yeah, that's been. That's been. That's been interesting. Yeah,, let us tell bellby this is dark. 12:37.92 Chance Let ah let us bring all the spice girls in and we'll tell them in person. 12:40.57 archpodnet Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we need all the spice girls on this Zoom call immediately. So we can talk to them that would have been that would been a trip but I mean that's just kind of like in others that. As an indigenous archaeologist in the field, an indigenous museum professional like that onus of having to do all that extra labor. You know, does boil down on on you especially so early on. 13:05.80 Chance Yeah, yeah, a fault. Yeah, seems to fall on the indigenous person themselves or on the see the tribe in the the other end seems to not want to. 13:15.76 archpodnet Here. 13:23.71 Chance Do the education themselves unless they're told to so well. 13:25.23 archpodnet No, but it's been cool like I I consider you a close friend like it's been really fun to like see because we've I mean you have lived in like the same places too like we have a really weird like mirrored. 13:41.79 Chance Um, yeah, and. 13:41.80 archpodnet Life course we were like in d so around DC at the same time we had like folks working at for the bi at the same time and like southwest Colorado like is really interesting connections. It's been really cool to see like how successful and motivated you you are. 13:48.65 Chance Um. 13:57.21 archpodnet And this field I'm like really looking forward to what happens next whether you land at Dns is your Colorado if you want to pursue a ph d down the line like it's been really really fun to see and it's been really cool to to be a part of your of your rise. Um, in in this field as as someone that's taken not only as a I mean I don't. Has been my experience within like plains or Colorado that you've been tokenized but that you're you're really looked upon as an authority within archeology and museum studies within Colorado so that's been just like really cool to really cool to see that that happen. And the opportunities you've gotten are just absolutely fantastic and if you're really taking advantage of it so I wanted to say that um I am excited to see what planes in Oklahoma city next month 14:43.72 Chance Yeah, it's been great getting to know you and it's a bit funny to see how our careers kind of mirrored each other a little bit and how we kind of ended up meeting each other at the same place at the right time and and yeah, um, for tokenizing you know I. Do my best to kind of be aware of everything and keep my eye out for not becoming that tokenized person. No matter what I'm doing and I have a good support group that kind of looks out for those things for me as well. 15:15.32 archpodnet Yeah, absolutely see you boulder that? Yeah, that place is really special when it comes to protecting indigenous students and making sure they're not overextending themselves and will is just absolutely fantastic I think will is is. Absolutely a rising star within that both those departments like he's going to be I'm excited to see what he does so but all right man. So before we end the show Chance. What are a couple sources these books articles videos that you'd recommend for anyone interested in like indigenous archeology Museum studies. 15:40.81 Chance Yeah, yeah, he is. 15:54.42 archpodnet Um, indigenous studies. 15:57.42 Chance Um, let's see I don't know I'm drawing blanks on my books here. All of a sudden. 16:05.47 archpodnet Not Lakota America 16:09.95 Chance Look not Lakota America with the in the German text. Um. 16:18.80 Chance What a dang I don't know. 16:20.99 archpodnet Not worried man. Well, where can our listeners find you on social media. 16:26.72 Chance Social media I have a Linkedin page that I try to keep his business and professional as I can I don't use it very often. But that's usually what I referred to. 16:37.43 archpodnet Okay, perfect and then you have a student profile on the museum right? Okay, excellent. 16:44.38 Chance Yeah, yeah I got a student profile on the museum page. 16:54.36 archpodnet Well dude I highly appreciate you coming on the show today and having this interview and you know chance if you were given the chance again would you still to choose to live a life in ruins. Excellent. 17:02.39 Chance I would completely no doubt about it. 17:08.57 archpodnet Thanks! man. Well everyone we just interviewed chance ward. You can find chance on Linkedin and his contact information on the museum studies student profile page at Su Boulder all those links will be in the show description down below. Um, you know, please be sure to rate and review the podcast and leave us with feedback on whichever podcasting platform you're listening to the show. And as always if you're listening to us on the all shows feed please please please subscribe to a life in ruins individual show having those numbers helps us grow our show and provide um ah stuff to potential advertisers and sponsors and by stuff I mean statistics. That's what I mean by stuff. So with that we are out.